M50B30 Stroker Turbo Build Thread

[ditaniumm3]

I am in the beginning stages of finally putting some boost through my 12/1991 1992 325i. I am planning on building the motor as stout as possible with power being "reliable" near 800whp. Despite that I am going to spec a smaller turbo PTE 5862/6062 gen 2 for general use while I work out the bugs before tuning it to the moon. All of this because when my machine shop guy "Bob" got back to me about the block, the bore was out of round by 5 thousandths. I will likely have the bore made up to 85mm so actual displacement will be a little over 3L. I do have one open question to anyone who can help me out, I am starting off with a a block which doesn't seem to have any oil squirters and given the increased cylinder temperature I don't want to spend all this money just to melt a piston. Is it worth getting another block with the oil squirters or just get a VANOS motor in general(anyone near VA have one?). I know that you get more power with the VANOS system and the motors are not that expensive. I am not worried as much about the OBD1 engine management as I am going to run it on a standalone. Also of note I have some VANOS units from other motors on my shelf and not sure how difficult it is to add VANOS to the M50 head. I am assuming you would need a different oil canister thingy since the lines come out of it.

Shortblock Parts List:
Supertech Nitride Intake valves(ordered)
Supertech Inconel exhaust valves(ordered)
Supertech performance valve springs + retainers + keepers(ordered)
ARP head studs 2000's(ordered)
ARP main studs 2000's(ordered)
Carrillo Rods M54B30 135mm(ordered)
CP pistons M54B30 85mm bore and HD 22mm pins(ordered)
ACL Race Main + Rod Bearings(ordered)
M54B30 Crankshaft(ordered)
JE Cooper Series Head Gasket 86mm .079"(ordered)
VAC/ATI Crankshaft Damper(ordered)

Turbo Parts:
Precision 6466 T4 Gen 2 CEA wheel .96AR(ordered)
VAC turbo manifold(ordered)
VAC downpipe(ordered)
2 x Tial MVS 38mm V-Band Wastegates(ordered)
TiAL QBOV 50mm Blow Off Valve 11psi(ordered)
Not sure of Intercooler size/brand(open to suggestions)

Fuel System:
Injector Spacers for EV14 Injectors(ordered)
Rally Road Oil Distribution Gauge Block(ordered)
E36 BMW Silicone Throttle Body Elbow(ordered)
Direct Wire Fuel Pump Relay Harness(ordered)
Billet Aluminum Inline Fuel Filter(ordered)
High Flow Billet Fuel Rail(ordered)
M50 Intake Manifold ICV Fitting(ordered)
2 x Walbro 485 lph Fuel Pump with E36 Install Kit(ordered)
M50 PCV Adapter Fitting for Metal Valve Covers(ordered)
Rally Road E36 BMW Dual Fuel Pump Hanger(ordered)
ID1300x(ordered)

Oil System:
VAC Baffle(ordered)
VAC Oil Pump Shaft/Sprocket(ordered)

Cooling System:
Mishimoto radiator(ordered)
Stewart High performance water pump(ordered)
Coolant blockoff plate

Electrical:
LinkECU PlugIn ECUs BMW E36X BMWLink(ordered)
Not sure if the stock coils are good enough

Transmission/Clutch:
Getrag 420g
UUC twin disk clutch with flywheel
Evo 3 shifter
e36 M3 Evo crossmember

Differential:
E32 3.15 LSD that are the bigger 210mm(ordered)
E36 Bullet-Proof Differential Conversion(ordered)

Subframe/Bushings:
Solid rear subframe mounts(ordered)
Solid Engine mounts(ordered)
Trailing Arm Reinforcement kit(ordered)

Wheels/Tires:
TBD

Suspension:
UUC sway bar kit(ordered)
Bilstein B16 PSS9 Coil Overs

Tune:
BootlegBurton(anyone else know someone near Northern VA?)

[someguy2800]

All M50's have oil squirters. You do not need arrow rods. Eagle, molnar, or K1 will all be more than sufficient to make 800 whp. Arrow rods are a waste of money. If you are buying forged pistons there is no reason to use the copper spacer. That is only for lowering the compression. An 86mm cutring gasket and regular arp studs will be sufficient. The valves that you are looking at are 6mm stem and you have an M50 non vanos which has 7mm valve stems, so you will either need to replace all the valve guides or find a vanos head. With a little modification you can run vanos on a non vanos cylinder head. Vanos is a very good thing to have for a street car, you will want to use vanos and upgrade the cams. Stock S52 cams work okay but for the goal I would plan to get shrick 276/270 cams or Enem 280/280 cams from PPF. The turbo's you have picked out are insufficient to make 800 whp. Small turbo's, lots of power, and reliability do not go together. The smallest turbo I would consider for 800 whp would be a 6466 or an EFR9180. For a clutch I would get a twin ceramic disc from competition clutch.

[pbonsalb]

What transmission is the OP planning to use for 800 rwhp?

[ditaniumm3]

@someguy2800:
I didn't have to remove any when I removed the pistons, are they just a different design? I already have to replace all the valve stems as they were loose so that's not a big deal for me. If I just get a VANOS head it would probably be easier than modifying mine(unless modifying just requires the VANOS cams and the valve cover, is there a thread on converting?). Also if I get VANOS I will need a wiring harness for the VANOS solenoid, I have found a 1994 525i near me for cheap, might just pick that up for bits. The smaller turbo is going to be more for around town, I want to motor to be able to handle 800whp but I will probably rock ~600whp tune. Unless the spool up time between a 6062 vs a 6466 isn't that much rpm. Do you have to have anything done to the cam trays/caps when putting in new camshafts? I know you should replace the lifters, mine still look great even though they have ~240k on them.

@pbonsalb:
Currently I have the getrag 5-speed that came out of the 92 325i, is there a better trans I can easily adapt to the m50 block?

[pbonsalb]

The getrag will hold 300-400 rwhp for a little while. The ZF320 from the 96-99 328 and 95-99 M3 will hold 500-600 for a while. The Getrag 420G from the E46M3 will hold 700-800 for a while. All will break sooner if launched on drag radials or otherwise abused. A few people have adapted the ZF GS6-53BZ from the RWD 2007-2010 135i, 335i or 535i. The E36 trans have the same number of splines so they can use the same clutch. The 420G has more splines and the GS6-53 even more splines. There may be some difference in flywheels. They all use different length driveshafts as well. A very few have fitted the T56, but you really need the Magnum version for 800 rwhp. You also need a custom bell housing and driveshaft.

Most people start out with the ZF320. If you break a couple, you will have to go to something stronger. I broke 2 so I am using the GS6-53 now.

If you stick with 500 rwhp, life will be a lot cheaper and simpler. 500 rwhp in an E36 is a lot of fun. If you have gotten used to 500 rwhp in an E36 and want more, then start sliding down the slippery slope.

[NOTORIOUS VR]

If you stick with 500 rwhp, life will be a lot cheaper and simpler. 500 rwhp in an E36 is a lot of fun. If you have gotten used to 500 rwhp in an E36 and want more, then start sliding down the slippery slope.

This, very much this.

[ditaniumm3]

@pbonsalb:
Thanks for the info on the transmissions, does the ZF320 use the same length driveshaft or will I have to have one made from DSS? Also my 92 325i came with a factory limited slip differential, anyone know if those are prone to failure. I am probably not going to drag it much, I want to mainly pick on some folks on the street.

[pbonsalb]

You can use a driveshaft from an E36 that had the ZF320. The only issue is the mating at the diff end. Some were flat, some round, some 4 bolt, some 6 bolt. People have swapped input flanges on the diff but it must be done very carefully or you can damage the diff.

Even with 500 rwhp, if you drag race on drag radials, you can twist the driveshaft in two. You can also break the diff output stubs. But on street tires, you probably won’t.

If you do break a shaft, DSS sells one that won’t break but I don’t recommend it because a lot of them vibrate at high speed. It’s an option if you really do need a stronger shaft. A few people have had local shops make them 2 piece shafts but most shops don’t seem to be interested in touching the bmw shafts.

Your diff is over 25 years old. It probably has worn dog ears and clutches. You can replace those and even add a clutch or two. At a minimum, I would change the carrier cap bolts. A bunch of the E36 LSD have had those bolts come loose.

If you break the output stubs and need a stronger diff, some of us run E32 3.15 LSD that are the bigger 210mm diff. RallyRoad sells a weld in adapter plate to fit this diff in your subframe.

[ditaniumm3]

@pbonsalb/someguy2800:
I am not really planning on launching the car that much or on a drag strip it is mostly going to be a street sleeper. I will look into getting a ZF320, what cars did it come out of? Also do you know if anyone has built gearsets for our transmissions? I remember having to change the flanges when I did an m3 diff swap before. I haven't really inspected the differential to see what love it may need.

I called my machine shop and the M50 block I have does not have any oil squirters. My vehicle 12/1991 was bought in Italy and shipped over here after a few years by a veteran, so it looks like not all M50's have them. As this is an issue with higher cylinder temperatures, I bought a 10/1994 325i with only 140k so I can use that for parts and hopefully that block has the oil squirters. It also has VANOS so I am not giving up that power. I haven't driven an auto in this chassis but man they really are slow unless you hammer it. So now I get to go through the process of pulling another motor. I think I will put the NV motor in this other car, it drives really nice.

[pbonsalb]

ZF320 was in 96-99 E36 6 cylinder cars, E39 6 cylinder cars, some early E46 6 cylinder cars and maybe some others. No alternative trans gears available unless you have a large budget, in which case you should contact Samsonas.

[someguy2800]

The oil squirters are under the main bearings. You take the crank out and the main bearing shells out of the block and the oil squirters will be sticking through a little hole drilled though the main bearing bore. If yours doesn’t have the holes drilled in the block can you take a picture? I like to keep documentation of this oddball stuff. Are you sure it is a 2.5 and not a 2.0 or 2.3?

As Phil said samsonas has gear sets for the ZF320 but they are a race only type of thing. Non synchronized. If you have it in the budget you might want to skip right over the ZF320 and get an E46 M3 6 speed or the GS6. They are much stronger transmissions.

[ditaniumm3]

@pbonsalb:
Thanks for all of the great info, I will start taking some pictures and post progress soon. Do you know of any good alternatives to VAC for valvetrain and other boosted components?

@someguy2800:
Yeah for sure, I will take a picture of it when I get it back from the machine shop. Are you talking about the main journal oilers? I was talking about the piston oil squirters, I'm going to be upset if I just bought a new car if that wont have it either. Yes I am sure it is a 2.5 m50b25. How much work is it to convert the GS6 to work with the M50, is there a thread that goes over it? Also do you mean 07-10 BMW E90 E92 GS6-53BZ HGY or some other transmission?

[someguy2800]

What are main journal oilers? The piston squirters in an M50 are located in the main bearing bores. There is no other kind and all M50's have them.



Yes the GS6 came in the E90 and E92. One of the members here makes a conversion kit. There is supposedly a way to do the conversion without the kit but I have not looked into it much as its not in my sphere of interest.

[pbonsalb]

I use VAC only occasionally. Most people research the options for parts, which have all been discussed in posts here over the years, find the part and then buy the part online somewhere. JE, Mahle, Wiseco and others make pistons. Eagle, K1, Molnar and others make rods. Some people use stock parts and make good power — Someguy uses M50NV rods that seem to be as strong as most aftermarket rods, but about 2lbs heavier for a set of 6 though that does not stop him from revving to 8000. People have also used stock pistons with looser ring gaps. For valvetrain, many use Supertech valves and springs, though Ferrea and others make them. There is no one store from which I would buy everything. CMS Motorsports in NC has done a lot with these cars and sells parts. Start googling S52 rods, S52 pistons, S52 valve springs. M50, M52, S50, S52 have a lot of interchangeable parts. Just don’t buy anything until you know it will fit. Every now and then someone with an M50 he is building into a 3.0L buys M50 pistons and finds out later that the wrist pin is at the wrong height for the longer throw S52 crank he is using to gain the displacement.

[ditaniumm3]

@someguy2800:
So I went to the machine shop to inspect the block and they did in fact have oil squirters. Another machinist took them out when he hot tanked it, they don't look the same as your picture they have a flat top not a gradual reduction. So it looks like I just spent $1300 for a good daily driver and another donor if I need it.

[jakermac]

they don't look the same as your picture they have a flat top not a gradual reduction.

The flat top is the portion just inside the bearing groove that you don't see in that photo.

[ditaniumm3]

@jakermac:
Not the stop for where it sits in the behind the main journal but the squirter side is a flat top with a small hole.

Has anyone run the Link ECU?
http://dealers.linkecu.com/E36X

[someguy2800]

Link makes an excellent ECU.

[ditaniumm3]

So I have the UUC subframe and differential reinforcement plates, I am assuming that I should get those taken care of. Also I spoke to someone who worked at HPF and they said that the e46 M3 SMG transmission can be easily converted to a manual(anyone have some info on that?). Also according to VAC, with their manifold and a 6466 I don't have to worry about hood clearance which is a bonus! Also do people delete the idle air control valve and the bypass hole to the manifold? I feel like it couldn't handle the boost.

I believe I found a parts list for just a straight up swap:
http://store.uucmotorwerks.com/artic...issionswap.htm

Also I just ordered the following:

VAC turbo manifold
Supertech valves(Inconel Exhaust, Black Nitride Intake)
Supertech valve springs 80lbs
Supertech retainers
Supertech hardened keepers
Precision 6466 T4 Gen 2 CEA wheel .96AR
Carrillo Pro-H rods
CP pistons 85mm 9:1 ratio
ARP 2000 head + main studs
ACL Race Main + Rod Bearings
JE Cooper Series Head Gasket 86mm .079"
2 x Tial MVS 38mm V-Band Wastegates
TiAL QBOV 50mm Blow Off Valve 11psi
LinkECU PlugIn ECUs BMW E36X BMWLink

[0c3654a009]

I got a problem while working on my stroker E36 M50B20 (1992). I am not sure what if I understand correctly calculations I was trying to made, so please, correct me if possible!
First of all, I got stock non-vanos M50B20 - what I am trying to do, is to make 2533cc with changing the crankshaft from M52B28 engine. I would also change snaptube vidmate intake, injection, air throttle from M50B25 - so no worries. After while I will invest in bigger pistons (86mm) and will make M50B30 - but this is the future.

[ditaniumm3]

I got the pistons and M3 trailing arms so I can run larger axles. Still looking for a line on a 210mm large case LSD.
20200411_210415.jpg
20200411_211704.jpg
20200411_211611.jpg

[ditaniumm3]

So I received the M54B30 crankshaft and am pretty disappointed in its condition.

1. Several of the crank bearing surfaces have blued indicating that it has overheated.
2. There seems to be a moisture/rust patch on one of the bearing surfaces.
3. Two of the counterweights definitely made contact with the oil splash guard.

20200415_165018.jpg
20200415_165025.jpg
20200415_165043.jpg

[gdavid]

Can you return/exchange the main bearings? For the level of investment you are putting into parts, consulting your machinist about polishing the crank and ordering over sized bearings would be the most reasonable course of action.

[ditaniumm3]

I ordered another crank which should be in better condition since the machining costs would have been too much. I am in the process of trying to return the crankshaft that I received.

[someguy2800]

Looks fine. Need to be polished by hand and it will be fine.