What engine is this based on the serial number? And can I cross reference the VIN?

[LysanderSpooner]

I recently purchased a used M60B40 (I think) and I am trying to pin down the year and if in fact it is a 4.0 liter engine and not a 3.0. The guy I bought it from has since proven to be a devout liar, so at this point I don't believe a word he says.

The numbers on the block:

180/3
1725963i

93 (next to the BMW logo)

Also, can I find out what the VIN number of the car was based on this engine number? He said the engine had 126k on it, but I would sure like to run a VIN check on it.

#$@% liars! :-/

[shogun]

In the online VIN decoders the engine number is never shown. About 10 years ago I had a friend working in Germany in the factory HQ and he had access to the internal VIN decoding and he did me the favour for my 750, by chassis VIN he could find the engine number, transmission number etc., but he meanwhile retired and I have no source. Here some TI's which might help, I posted that more than 10 years ago, engine identification http://www.bimmerboard.com/forums/posts/627395/
copy this and paste it into the wayback machine, 32 pages: BMW Teile und Zubehör Motor- und Triebwerks-Kennzeichnungen, German languages, you can copy the text and google translate
the original link does not work anymore http://www.m3-gt-racing.de/downloads...ena00399de.pdf
https://web.archive.org/web/20171019...ena00399de.pdf
remanufactured engines
Triebwerks-Kennzeichnung......................Teilenummer/part no..........................Motortyp
alt..................neu
308S1 01 A 11 00 1747720 E M60 B30
308S1 02 A 11 00 1747722 E M60 B30
308S1 03 A 11 00 1747724 M60 B30
308S1 04 A 11 00 1747738 E M60 B30
308S1 05 A 11 00 1747740 E M60 B30
308S1 06 A 11 00 1742238 E M60 B30
308S1 07 A 11 00 1742239 E M60 B30
308S1 08 A 11 00 1742241 E M60 B30
308S1 09 A 11 00 1742265 E M60 B30
308S1 10 A 11 00 1742266 E M60 B30
308S1 11 A 11 00 1742268 E M60 B30
308S1 12 A 11 00 1435192 M60 B30
308S1 13 A 11 00 1435194 M60 B30
308S1 14 A 11 00 1435196 M60 B30
308S1 15 A 11 00 1435198 M60 B30
308S1 16 A 11 00 1435200 M60 B30
308S1 18 A 11 00 1435204 M60 B30
308S1 19 A 11 00 1435206 M60 B30
308S1 20 A 11 00 1435208 M60 B30
408S1 01 A 11 00 1747732 E M60 B40
408S1 02 A 11 00 1747734 E M60 B40
408S1 03 A 11 00 1747736 M60 B40
408S1 04 A 11 00 1728886 M60 B40
408S1 05 A 11 00 1728889 M60 B40
408S1 06 A 11 00 1742244 E M60 B40
408S1 07 A 11 00 1742245 E M60 B40
408S1 08 A 11 00 1742247 E M60 B40
408S1 09 A 11 00 1742271 E M60 B40
408S1 10 A 11 00 1742272 M60 B40
408S1 11 A 11 00 1742274 E M60 B40
408S1 12 A 11 00 1742279 M60 B40
408S1 13 A 11 00 1742280 E M60 B40
408S1 14 A 11 00 1435210 M60 B40
408S1 15 A 11 00 1435212 M60 B40
408S1 16 A 11 00 1435214 M60 B40
408S1 17 A 11 00 1435228 M60 B40
408S1 18 A 11 00 1435230 M60 B40
408S1 19 A 11 00 1435216 M60 B40
408S1 20 A 11 00 1435218 M60 B40
408S1 22 A 11 00 1435222 M60 B40
408S1 23 A 11 00 1435224 M60 B40
408S1 24 A 11 00 1435226 M60 B40
408S1 25 A 11 00 1435232 M60 B40
408S1 26 A 11 00 1435234 M60 B40
408S1 21 A 11 00 1435220 M60 B40


M62
358S1 01 A 11 00 1745569 M62 B35
358S1 02 A 11 00 1745571 M62 B35
358S1 03 A 11 00 1745577 E M62 B35
358S1 04 A 11 00 9070774 M62 B35
358S1 05 A 11 00 9070777 M62 B35
358S2 01 A 11 00 1439762 M62 B35
358S2 02 A 11 00 1439764 M62 B35
448S1 ?? A 11 00 1710969 M62 B44
448S1 01 A 11 00 1745573 M62 B44
448S1 02 A 11 00 1745575 M62 B44
448S1 03 A 11 00 9070780 M62 B44
448S1 04 A 11 00 9070784 M62 B44
448S1 05 A 11 00 9064866 M62 B44
448S1 06 A 11 00 9071099 M62 B44
448S1 07 A 11 00 9064868 M62 B44
448S1 08 A 11 00 9071102 M62 B44
448S2 01 A 11 00 1439766 M62 B44
448S2 02 A 11 00 1439768 M62 B44

Kennzeichnung bei Serienmotoren, identification in series engines see page 04
Beispiel/example: 60060936 39 8 D1
Motornummer ist eine 8-stellige Zahlenkombination in der Produktionsort und Produktionsdaten verschlüsselt dargestellt sind. 60060936
39 8 D1
39 = indicates the engine volume
8 = number of cylinders
D = engine design; D = diesel, E = fuel injected, K = catalysator (only M10, M20, M30 engines), S = 4-valve design, T = Turbo, V = Vergaser/carburetor

Kennzeichnung bei Triebwerken , example
39 8 D1 01 A
0000 A 000
11 00 7 781 488

details:
39 8 D1 = series
01 = variant/version
A = Austausch oder Neuteil = Remanufactured or new

[kce1900]

@LysanderSpooner, There should be a serial number punched into the block somewhere. Beneath or above it you should find, also punched in, an engine code that should tell you what you have. The German PDF that Shogun linked shows you where to look for these numbers.

The number that you showed us seems to be a part number (minus the leading 11 00), but it doesn't show up in the documents that Shogun posted and realoem.com doesn't know it either.

[LysanderSpooner]

408S1 04 A 11 00 1728886 M60 B40
408S1 05 A 11 00 1728889 M60 B40

Thanks for that info, very useful, particularly the diagrams showing where to look and the charts that tell you what you are looking at and for. My "new" engine falls the closest into the above range, numbers-wise anyhow.

[LysanderSpooner]

@LysanderSpooner, There should be a serial number punched into the block somewhere. Beneath or above it you should find, also punched in, an engine code that should tell you what you have. The German PDF that Shogun linked shows you where to look for these numbers.

The number that you showed us seems to be a part number (minus the leading 11 00), but it doesn't show up in the documents that Shogun posted and realoem.com doesn't know it either.

I ran this business and built its website for online ordering of Lambretta parts in the late '90s, and did that for 23 years. We even made the cover of Cycle World magazine racing them, woohoo!

The Lambretta parts books and manuals were excellent, which is what allowed us to create the online system we did, long before Manny, Moe and Jack ever thought of it. Over a span of about five years we hand entered over 7000 part numbers into our computer systems.

Many people don’t know that the Innocenti factory in Milan was the largest factory in the world for many decades until they folded in 1971. But one thing we learned over the years is that there will always be gaps in record keeping. On occasion we would find something with obvious factory (part or serial) numbers that could not be found in any of the known factory literature. So I guess I’m not surprised that neither of my M60 engines’ numbers show up in the literature that shogun referenced.

Lambretta engine cases have the model identifier (Li125, SX200, etc.) stamped onto a lug on the outside of the main engine case, next to which the serial number is then also stamped. A part number for the main case is also clearly cast into the part on the inside, and some part numbers would be applicable to several models (125Ld and 150Ld for example). When I first started that business I had a pretty decent supply of new old stock engine cases with no serial numbers, and some with no serial or model number stampings.

So yeah, I was skeptical that what I was looking at was a serial number. I suspected as you verified that it is a model/part number. And it's cool to know where I can find a serial number now, thank you. Time to go have a look!

lakeside-garage-012.jpg

[LysanderSpooner]

Thanks to that PDF I found the serial number on a lug just in front of the valley pan area, behind the timing cover and below where the water pump would mount:

5190 0686
40 8S 1

So at least I know it's a 4.0 liter engine. I wish I could cross reference it to a VIN but it seems that is not possible.

serial-number.jpg