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Thread: Getting desperate. No start after timing job + vanos rebuild + top end rebuild.

  1. #1
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    Exclamation Getting desperate. No start after timing job + vanos rebuild + top end rebuild.

    Hello everyone, I'm hoping you guys can look at this from another angle than I am because I'm having trouble figuring this one out. I have a 2000 (6/1999) 540i/6 that I've recently done a complete top end rebuild on, including cylinder head refresh and valve job, new vans distribution housings, the works. After assembling everything and having not a single bolt or nut left over, I topped off the fluids and excitedly and anxiously went to start it and hold at 2500rpm for ~5 seconds as the manuals call for, however after 20 - 30 seconds of cranking with all systems go, all I'm getting is coughing and misfiring. around the 15 second mark it becomes a rhythmic pattern that sounds like 3 or 4 cylinders trying to fire and a couple are dead, though cranking sounds consistent as if all cylinders have compression.

    I hooked up my snap-on Edge OBDII reader and found no codes. However on live data there is an active readout for everything and while most things seem to be reading accurately, both cam sensors stay at 0.0. I pulled all the fuses that seemed related in the little guide in the glove box and they all checked good for continuity. Having had a problem with a cam bolt coming loose and wrecking the valve train in the past, my anxiety and newfound self doubt (I swear this car is giving me PTSD) convinced me it was out of time and I pulled the wiring boxes and valve covers back off, pinned the crank at TDC, checked the cam marks and went to drop the German Auto Solutions cam blocks on and they snapped in perfectly; the darn thing is spot on in-time.

    So now I have no idea what to look for except for the fact that the spark plugs were all drenched when I pulled them, and I remembered that they had been in the cylinder heads for the entire machine shop process (2x hot tank baths and 2 stage sand blasting for cleaning) and the electrodes on one bank of spark plugs are completely black now. I also have the lack of cam sensor signal while cranking, but I checked all my grounds, and these cam sensors worked fine when I pulled them out and put them on a shelf in my shop. I've also checked all of my plugs and connections from the two injector wiring boxes and everything was snug and seated properly, routed the way it was in the picture and snapped into it's little clip. I'm at a loss since I can't seem to find the charger for my ISTA/D/P laptop anywhere and will have to order a new one.. My luck.

    I'm desperately hoping that some of you have some ideas for what to look for. Thank you in advance for wracking your brains with me

  2. #2
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    Sounds like fun! I'm sure you know to check for the basic things (fuel, spark, compression, air). Do you have all 4 of those?

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    Stolen from another fourm post.
    "I just learned how to test a CPS from an engineer I know that works for Bosch. With it removed, attach leads from a multimeter to the positive and negative terminals on the plug. The third terminal is the signal. You should get a reading around 500 to 600 ohms. Take a heat gun and begin to heat the CPS up. The ohms will go to 700 to 900 but not continue to climb on a good one whereas a bad one will continue to climb till it reaches a point where it goes offline, meaning open circuit."
    Last edited by seagreen323i; 04-01-2020 at 12:45 AM.

  3. #3
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    Give this a read, maybe give you a few ideas.
    https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink/top...ink_source=app

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  4. #4
    JimLev's Avatar
    JimLev is offline Artifically Aspirated Moderator
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    Did you clear the adaptations and then re-sync the throttle body to the DME? Key on for 30+ seconds, then key off, then start the engine.
    Better way to test the cam sensor.....
    Connect to 12 volts, and have cam signal wire connected to your volt meter. Move a chunk of metal quickly back and forth past the tip of the sensor. Does the meter indicate anything?

  5. #5
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    ^ Definitely listen to him, he is basically a deity.

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  6. #6
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    Check the stupid stuff first. Cam & Crank sensors plugged in and screwed in properly? Fuel injector boxes snugly plugged in? Coils plugged in? Battery isn't low? Alt works ok and plugged in? It sounds like something electrical is faulty or not plugged in.

  7. #7
    JimLev's Avatar
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    I wasn't nixing your heat it up method. At first start the cams sensors are cold so they have to electrically work. After everything gets heated up things could fail so your heat it up test would then be a valid test.

  8. #8
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    I wasn't being sarcastic with what I said you are among the car gods! I would definitely double check the simple things. When I did my clutch replacement on my 540 I forgot to tighten the crank sensor on the tranny because I am a simpleton. If you removed the tranny it could of gotten squished, I learned that the hard way. My car was pulling hard and all of a sudden it was like the ignition got switched off. I look under the car and my little freind the crank sensor is hanging by the harness. No codes no precursor nothing.
    If you need any pictures I have a bone stock engine bay you could use to trace wires I definitely dont mind snapping a few detailed pics.

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    Last edited by seagreen323i; 04-01-2020 at 09:51 AM.

  9. #9
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    I knew you weren't, even so I've got pretty thick skin.
    To tell you the truth I've never heard of anybody mentioning heating it up and testing it that way so thanks for the info.

  10. #10
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    Cam sensor info.

    Cam Connector.JPG

    Dscn2571.jpg

    This is the actual signal that is sent to the DME at idle.
    DSCN2637.JPG

  11. #11
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    Well uhhh @JimLEv, your engine looks a hell of a lot cooler than mine does, even after all this work.. haha. I re-assembled the engine today, luckily it's not a lot of work, just a bit tedious. I honestly would love working on this engine if I didn't have to do it so much.. Anyways, it's dead nuts in-time according to the GAS tools. Has brand new NGK double platinum quad tip spark plugs now. I reset adaptations according to your advice. Still doesn't run. Though instead of having to crank for a long while to get into that rhythmic pattern of hits and misses, it was immediate, like starting should be.. except not quite starting. It wouldn't fire at all when I unplugged the cam sensors, so I assume they're doing something, though I haven't checked them with a scope yet. I'm going to peel back the boot and check out their supply with a multimeter here in a bit though. Currently re-installing the INPA / ISTA/D software on my laptop and gathering my wits to go try try some more with this stupid car..


    The gas that's in it has been in it for about a year now... Would bad gas possibly fire / misfire in a rhythmic/consistent pattern? My first thought is to write it off and say no way, but it does smell pretty rank after cranking for 15-20 seconds. I'm pulling at straws now.

    Also I pulled the fuses in the electrical box under the passenger hvac filter and all tested good for continuity. So did all related fuses in the glovebox and trunk. ugghhh

  12. #12
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    Sorry to hear this. JimLev is on the thread, so I don't know why I'm chiming in. Thinking through this, I would do what I could to eliminate any variables on fuel intake first. Could the fuel be bad? It may not be probable but it's possible. Especially if it's been sitting for a year.

  13. #13
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    Come on Tim, your a pro now.

    Squid get some starter fluid and spray short bursts into the throttle body while you have a helper cranking it.
    If it's a fuel problem it will start and run on starter fluid. Just short quick blasts so you don't flood it.

  14. #14
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    I know you said it sounds like it, but have you verified that you have compression in all of the cylinders? Did you check the valves for leakage after the valve job?

  15. #15
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    I've tried to verify that I have compression in all cylinders but the compression tester I rented was broken. I tried to connect with ISTA / INPA/D today and couldn't get the software to pick up on the K+D Can cable I've always used with no issues.. Also looks like Rheingold is out of business!?!? screw me.. I spent a lot of money with them..

    Drained the gas and added fresh premium without ethanol since that was the only thing I COULD do while I was there, and still no start. Then just broke down into tears because I'm so mentally exhausted from fighting this stupid car.. Resting up this evening to go for round 6 in the morning. It still seems like it just HAS to be a timing issue.. I'm wondering if perhaps I could have had just the slightest bit too much slack in the chain when I torqued everything down for good, or maybe I skipped a skep I remember doing.. I just have no Idea anymore... It can't possibly be out of time by more than one or two degrees. How many does it take to cause major running issues? I'll try starter fluid tomorrow along with a different compression tester. I desperately want to be done working on this god forsaken car...

  16. #16
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    you will get it figured out... then u will fall back in love.... we all have been there. take a breath, drink a beverage of choice, tomorrow will be a better BMW day

  17. #17
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    Dude I've been there before I promise. It will get better. Just sit down and relax, if you're exhausted from working than you won't think straight.

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  18. #18
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    Have you looked at the plugs? Are they fouled?
    Just because you replaced the gas the old stuff was probably still in the lines, filter, and the fuel rail.
    See what you get using starter fluid.
    It should still start if it's only 1 or 2 deg off.

  19. #19
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    Car might be flooded ...?
    If the car has been sitting for a while, it is definitely possible .
    Plus, the lifters can drain out .
    I had to add a few drops of oil into the cylinders in order to bring back compression, and finally start .

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  20. #20
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    Check to see if you got spark, check the fuel injectors if they are firing (there are diode lights that plug in on the inj. harness and light up when cranking) vacuum leaks. Start with the simple stuff first.

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  21. #21
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    I've read thru a couple of times, but I don't see anything that says that the engine ran fine before your top-end rebuild. Trying to separate the issues to before and after the cyl head and timing work.work
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  22. #22
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    @ED it ran perfectly before all of this, aside from the clacky-slappy cold starts; that’s what all of this was trying to fix is the stupid cold start noise.. after the first timing rebuilt, bank 1 intake cam bolt came loose after a few heat cycles, resulting in the car needing a complete top end rebuild.

    However I have finally found something conclusive! A good compression test revealed that it’s isn’t making hardly any! Results are as follows;

    1: 0
    2: 0
    3: 0
    4: 0

    5: 170
    6: 168
    7: 60
    8: 30


    All in PSI of course.. now of course the question is, WHAT ON EARTH CAN CAUSE THIS? the machine shop says it sounds like valves are stuck open but gave no suggestion as to what could cause that, and suggested a leak down test..I’m losing my mind on this car.. the original compression test was 175psi on all cylinders except 3, which even with bent valves made 30 psi... what gives!?!?

  23. #23
    JimLev's Avatar
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    I wouldn't bother with a leak down test, not with 0 on 4 cylinders, it's pointless.
    Either the timing is way way off or you have a lot of bent valves. I'm guessing you have both.
    Time to pull it apart again.
    With the intake manifold and valve covers off you should be able to figure it out.
    Look in the intake ports to see if all the intake valves close as you rotate the crank.
    Last edited by JimLev; 04-03-2020 at 02:38 PM. Reason: added more

  24. #24
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    Take the loss and move on..... 0 psi on 4 cilinders, one on 30 and one on 60, only one with good compression, my guess is broken rings, a lot of bent valves, warped head.
    You said cam timing was spot on with the tool, but timing chain could have stretvhed or jumped a tooth..

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  25. #25
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    It’s brand new OEM chains, brand new OEM guides. It didn’t skip or jump timing, all of the tools / locks still fall right in place even now. I turned it over by hand with no spark plugs first and nothing has ever collided with the pistons. This engine made perfect compression across the board before the rebuild except on cylinder 3, so I’m not buying that the rings cracked and failed while the engine sat wrapped in seran wrap and microfibers, and I don’t buy that it has bent valves.. it has to be something major that I overlooked during assembly.. right? This engine did not go boat-anchor on me while sitting on a lift... I don’t believe that.

    - - - Updated - - -

    How can I have the timing off if I put the blocks on with the cam markings up, and verified cam lobe positions and piston positions every step of the way???

    HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE 😩

    - - - Updated - - -

    How can I have the timing off if I put the blocks on with the cam markings up, and verified cam lobe positions and piston positions every step of the way???

    HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE 😩

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