Any reason to build a 2.0 stock EFI M10 77/83 hybrid?

[dieslcruisrhead]

Subject mostly says it all. I might have too many E21s and BMW stuff lying around if such a thing exists.

1) I have a '77 that has the old style intake manifold, and points ignition. I'm told this is 10 more HP than the 1983 320s I have that run great but not much need or use for Overdrive here at our elevation because it's missing about 25% of air, therefore 25% of power. So it can hardly keep itself in 5th gear on the 1983s. 10hp would go a long way.

2) I also have an high mileage 83 that runs great, is fairly rust free, but has a crack in the head so it runs great but is leaking a little oil.


So I'm thinking of building a hybrid M10 with the 2.0 block but the 83 intake and EFI. And putting back into this '83 body.

Would I get enough fueling in this setup?


Also as a side bars, if this is helpful.

I have a compete turbo system from another wrecked E21. Later intake and I believe it's megaquirt. Garrett turbo, I'm unsure how much it will boost as I didn't know the owner but was told it ran great. It'll be a bit of an experiment to get it right. I haven't started messing with it obviously.

I have another complete '83 M10 ultra low miles and complete still in the car (was rear ended interior is completely utterly immaculate).

I have an '81 with a very clean body but someone pulled the EFI in favor of a Weber 32/36. It runs OK, but has the good 245 5 speed in it if what I've read on the Internets is good and correct.

And finally I have a 85 325e with a bad block, that I bought mostly for the subframe / disc brakes (I'm going to adapt to put into one of the E21s) and for other EFI stuff for the turbo setup in case the stuff off the M10 turbo doesn't work well.



thanks!

[jaredmac11]

I'd consider going to megasquirt efi because you can go from Kjet -> Megasquirt efi -> Forced Induction

Going to an 83 setup will be kind of an unnecessary step right?

There's an 02 guy near me that basically went carbs, Ms efi, Ms with boist

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[SilverPuddle]

I'd consider going to megasquirt efi because you can go from Kjet -> Megasquirt efi -> Forced Induction

Going to an 83 setup will be kind of an unnecessary step right?

There's an 02 guy near me that basically went carbs, Ms efi, Ms with boist

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I did not understand what you are meaning here...? So, he has a carbed 2002 with fuel injection and turbo, managed with megasquirt ?

I don't remember seeing the carb and efi combined.

Thanks for the info.

[jaredmac11]

Sorry I wasn't really clear. Basically he evolved his car from carbs to a Megasquirt, electronic fuel injected setup. When he had that good and tuned and got bored, he moved to boost/forced induction. He did the necessary updates like bigger injectors, but the intake, trigger wheel, etc were mostly the same.

If you have your hands on a boosted setup, with Megasquirt and whatever injection system that has, why take a step back and go to the 83? You can't really use the 83 setup anyways for boost, right?

Unless I completely misunderstood you.


Edit: looks like I did miss a few things. Could always take the easiest route and drop in the complete m10 with the factory setup but I know folks like the power the get from MS. Sounds like you have heaps of options though.

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[dieslcruisrhead]

I think I'll go megaquirt. Unsure which engine and which E21 I'll put it in. Funny though to have these carbs and factory EFI setups lying around doing nothing or selling them off.

too many options, which I suppose is a good thing.

thanks,
A

[dieslcruisrhead]

Also yes you can use the factory EFI setup for boost. Or parts of it, at least. I'be been told to score the K-jetronic setup from a Volvo B23FT (I was a Volvo guy and funny enough was I owned a rare 245 wagon with k-jet boost) so you pull a couple of bits and can have a boosted setup. You can't tune it and get it dialed like Megaquirt though. I have little megasquirt experience but have a couple of friends with tons. They are old guys who are isolated right now with the virus so I won't have access to them for some time.

[jaredmac11]

Agreed, alot of the parts for a MS setup on the m10 are from a factory EFI setup. Either way I'd just say have fun with it. Consider the m20 though. That could be a beast.

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[dieslcruisrhead]

Agreed, alot of the parts for a MS setup on the m10 are from a factory EFI setup. Either way I'd just say have fun with it. Consider the m20 though. That could be a beast.

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Fair enough. I'm into keeping it light but I can source M20s pretty easily too. I feel like a 2.0 super high revving M10 with a turbo and goof EFI would also be a best, but what do I know...

I'm doing my math and I have 4 M10s right now. It's a little overkill :

[amarino]

I don't think the 83 E21 intake is suitable for EFI as the injector holes are still on the head? I know that the early E30 (like 84 to 86) had an M10 with the EFI intake manifold.

Another popular thing I've seen (and want to do one day) is take a 1.8L M10 and put a 2.0L crank in it with some custom pistons. Then up to you if you want to bore it out more or not. Its mentioned in the DIY/FAQ thread: https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...9#post15922309

Performance M10 Build
Block - The 1.8 and 2.0L blocks are the same. Some say the 2.0 block is heavier and stronger, but this is unverified. The stock bore is 89mm. The largest bore you can safely go with is 92mm. Some will say the safest max is 91mm, how risky you want to get is up to you.

Rods - The stock 1.8 and 2.0 rods are forged, are 135mm and will hold all the power you'll ever make, NA or turbo. S14 rods are 144mm. If you're building an s14 cranked stroker, stick with the s14 rods for a better rod ratio.

Crank - 1.8L = 71mm stroke, 2.0L = 80mm stroke, s14 = 84mm stoke. The 80mm 2.0 crank and rotating assembly will just drop right in to a 1.8L block. The only stock pistons that will work with the 1.8 head are the flat top 2.0 pistons which will give you very low 7.9:1 compression (great for a turbo, OK for NA). The best option is custom forged pistons which are available from TEP and Ireland Engineering, to name a few. Custom cast maxsil pistons are also available from Bavauto. If you use the 135mm rods & 2.0 crank your compression height will need to be 42.5mm. Be sure to have the rotating assembly balanced. The 80mm crank and 92mm bore will yield 2127cc's.

The 84mm S14 crank can also be used in the m10 block with some minor clearance grinding of the block and custom machine work on the front timing cover to accept the larger s14 front crank seal. It is best to use the 144mm s14 rods. Your piston compression height will then need to be 31.5mm. With a 92mm bore this combination will give you 2234cc's. You could also have the s14 crank offset ground to 85mm and run .5mm oversized bearings which would give you 2360cc's (just a wild idea of mine, I've never seen this done). See Steve's 2.2L stroker build page:

Steve's 2.2L stroker

Max M10 Displacement Discussion

M10 Compression Ratio Discussion

Pistons - see TEP's or Ireland Engineering's website, give them a call.

Head - Consider having the head ported/polished by someone who knows what they're doing like TEP or Metric Mechanic. You may also want to look into rocker retainers (see below).

M10 Head Flow Comparison
M10 Head Flow Comparison

Camshaft - The stock cam is 264 degrees. Upgrading to a 278 or 280 will give you more top end, provided you have the intake and exhaust for the motor to breath there. The largest cam that you can run with CIS is a 292 which will still be streetable but you'll give up some midrange torque. Obviously with a large cam, stiffer valve springs will be in order. TEP and Ireland Engineering sell regrinds and new cams for a reasonable price, or you can pony up some serious cash and buy a Schrick cam from Bavauto.

Cam Removal
Steve Hauer's Cam Removal Tool

Stock m10 cam specs (from factory blue book):
base circle diameter: 26.7612mm
Cam lift: 7.026mm
Valve lift: 9.13mm (1.3 rocker ratio)
114 deg lobe seperation

Duration @ .020": 236*
IVO :4* btdc, IVC:52* deg abdc,
EVO: 52* bbdc, EVC: 4* atdc

Duration @ .011": 264* (This is the equivalent to advertised duration, most cam specs you see are likely measured at this lift)
IVO :18* btdc, IVC:65* deg abdc,
EVO: 65* bbdc, EVC: 18* atdc

M10 Cam Spec Data base:
M10 Cam Spec Database

Rocker Retainers - The "Achilles Heel" of the m10 is the rocker arms walking off the valves at high rpms. The stock retainer springs are too weak to keep the rocker over the valve stem and they walk down the rocker shaft and off the valve resulting in a broken rocker. A motor that sees lots of high rpm use may be saved by rocker retainers.

Rocker Retainers

Something like this but instead of the Volvo EFI go MS:
https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...JP-s-LH2-2-M10

[okieflats]

On Datsun 510 4 cylinders, many people have adapted ITB's from 4 cylinder motor cycles. I'd like to see someone do that for an e21. Basically to show me how it's done. Too lazy to figure it out on my own I suppose.

Screenshot (55).jpg

[jaredmac11]

Lol funny you mention that....the 02 guy with the boosted 02 is doing just that. Motorcycle itbs on the m10. I'll pick his brain some. He's sourced some itbs already and plans to do this with another m10 he has.

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[okieflats]

Here's a throttle body kit for the M10

https://store.jenvey.co.uk/bmw-m10-tbp45-kit-ckb03-kit

DETAILS OF BASE KIT
The BMW M10 4 cylinder throttle body kit from Jenvey Dynamics includes a pair of TB45 throttle bodies,a Jenvey Dynamics EFI inlet manifold, fuel rail and 90mm long airhorns. Jenvey throttle bodies and all Jenvey throttle body accessories are engineered for Motorsport, offering excellent performance, reliability, lightness and value. This kit is ideal for road, track or rally use. The M10 engine is used in many BMW models throughout the Seventies including the iconic BMW 2002 and New Klasse.


PRICE:Starting From £803.00

[okieflats]

E30 318i intake manifold, fuel rail, fuel
pressure regulator, and E30 M3 injectors.

http://www.zeebuck.com/bimmers/tech/...eparation.html

[dieslcruisrhead]

Here is the setup I have. It has the e30 manifold and injectors. I also have the injectors from the 85 e30 325e as well, if it helps. Here are pics of the complete turbo setup. I'm just learning about it. I found some of the links on how to do megasquirt, if it helps.

https://drive.google.com/folderview?...CJgvLDy5-ZojVk

[okieflats]

Yes the e30 M10 intake manifold is different than the 1983 e21 intake manifold, though it looks similar.