Reviving a dead E61

[tantumaude]

That site is indeed excellent, thank you!

A bit more digging just now: I'm getting a CAS error A0b4, which indicates that the starter motor was activated but is unable to turn.

Having seen a similar problem while swapping an E39 from auto to manual a few years back, I wonder if the EWS/CAS is in 'lockout' mode due to too many start attempts (the battery was low as per PO when the car died). Out if curiosity, I tried to do the CAS/DME alignment procedure, where I got the following error:

Operation due to EWS version not available! Ews Version 4, EWS 4 secret key locked

In the CAS diagnostics screen, with key inserted, I get the attached screen (apologies for the terrible picture).
20200313_104120.jpg

I'll be checking the entire ground cabling on the car this weekend, to see if the fault may lay there--in the meantime, I'm going to investigate this EWS lockout possibility.


Also, the CCC appears to be working again, don't know why or how.

Again, your insight is truly valued.

[tantumaude]

Replaced valve cover gasket today. The old one came off in pieces. Quite a job, I think I broke a vacuum control valve of some sort right behind the VC. Annoying. What was even more annoying was dropping my torx socket behind the turbos. That took a good 3 hours to find and retrieve. Gah.

Anyways, I hooked everything back up, and tried starting the engine again. Nothing.

Cleared and re-scanned codes, I'm happy to say I only have 4 now, all from the DME. They're 3100 (DME: Boost-pressure control, deactivation), 2ABC (Boost-pressure sensor, electric), 2A85 (Exhaust VANOS, activation) and 29F3 (Fuel low-pressure sensor, electric--pump fuse is removed, so no surprise here)

I tried both keys, from locking to unlocking to ignition switch. No change.

I'm going to try jumping the starter next.

[tantumaude]

Good news today. The starter motor is completely dead. The signal wire does give 12v when the start button is pressed, but there is absolutely no reaction from the starter at all. I tried giving it 12v directly, nothing either. I'm going to try to get a secondhand one to test, and go from there.

Oh, and this arrived today:

[pbonsalb]

I actually like the auto trans, but it’s my wife’s car so it’s more a convenience car. Turbo goes great with an auto — seamless power. I have the same fundamental GS6-53 manual in my E90M3 and in my turbo E36M3 (obviously both are the RWD variants), though, and it is a good manual.

[tantumaude]

I actually like the auto trans, but it’s my wife’s car so it’s more a convenience car. Turbo goes great with an auto — seamless power. I have the same fundamental GS6-53 manual in my E90M3 and in my turbo E36M3 (obviously both are the RWD variants), though, and it is a good manual.

I'll definitely get it running first and see how I like it. The transmission was $300 all-in, so very hard to pass up.
New starter inbound, should arrive this evening. Fingers crossed.
I did find an N54 long block locally for $1600, so worst case will be a direct swap. With all this covid-19 uncertainty I can't afford to do the S85 just yet.

[tantumaude]

Put the starter in, and the engine now cranks!

Next step is to put everything back together and figure out the vacuum lines. Hopefully it will actually run, so I can drive it soon and start figuring out what else is wrong.

[interalian]

Put the starter in, and the engine now cranks!

Next step is to put everything back together and figure out the vacuum lines. Hopefully it will actually run, so I can drive it soon and start figuring out what else is wrong.

w00t!

[tantumaude]

Turns out those random disconnected vacuum lines and electrical plugs all were connected to the boost solenoids and MAP sensor, which are nowhere to be found (along with their mounting hardware). What a pain in the rear.

Ordered new ones, who knows when they'll arrive. No progress until then I'm afraid.

[pbonsalb]

At least you are figuring it out. The last person did not. Ill guess he was chasing low boost codes. You may find loose wastegates. A real pain to get to but you could try tightening yours up. Some people remove the turbos and replace the flapper valves. If I was doing that much work I would just replace the turbos. And probably the electric water pump and thermostat while I was in there.

[tantumaude]

Thanks. I was hoping not to delve into the turbos, but if I must, then I shall.

[tantumaude]

Some bad news I'm afraid--silly me had never even bothered to check the oil filter.

I just did, and found a lot of what looks like copper flakes. The filter (partially collapsed) was full of them. The oil was also very, very runny. It almost had the consistency of water, but smelled fine. Mind you, it hasn't run in almost a year either...

Sorry for the crappy pics. Filter is in a plastic bag.

I've got half a mind to just put in new oil and try starting it, and half a mind to give up and get another engine. The missing parts for this one will arrive tomorrow.

[pbonsalb]

What is the harm in trying? A filter and some oil. The fact that it cranks means it is not locked up but I suppose you could be spinning a bearing that has not welded yet. I am not sure what is in your oil, but there is copper in N54 bearings. The thin-ness may just be that it is well used 5W30. If it was water, it would be like chocolate milk.

[plus2]

I would probably drain the oil and have a good look at what comes out. I'd also fill it back up with inexpensive synth oil like the WalMart stuff. It won't likely go 15,000 miles but it decent oil for testing. Use only a Mann or BMW filter for the long run but any locally sourced one should work for testing. Unless something drastic happened to it, I'm kinda betting it will run OK. They are actually tough engines.
Keep in mind that when there is a engine issue the turbos are deactivated which leaves the code you mentioned.
I really like the N54 and it's sibling, the N52. We have one of each.

[tantumaude]

Thanks both. That'll be the plan for today--I'll throw in some cheap 5w40 and go from there.

Either way, I'm looking at used engines.

[tantumaude]

Boost solenoids and MAP sensor arrive at last this afternoon. Installed them, ran some vacuum line where it was missing, put new filter and filled with oil. Pressed start button--lots of cranking, sputtering, and a smell of gas. Oh no.

Long story short, somebody loosened the fuel line at the HPFP by about 1/4 turn. Gas was streaming out. Tightened it back up, and tried again.

The car runs, although there is a distinct knocking sound. Definitely sounds like a bad bearing. Also, while the car was running I tried shifting to drive or reverse, simply to try to free the rear wheels. No luck, the shifter just goes right back into park. Reading up on it points to an issue with the mechatronics bridge seal. I just did a tranny filter job in the E91, so I'm thinking I'll just try to do that and replace the mechatronics seal and sleeves.

Which brings us to the main course: the engine. At this point I have, I think, three options.
1. Replace bearings. Hope that there are no other problems related to it (but planning on rebuilding turbos while subframe is down or engine out). Repair transmission.
2. Replace entire engine. Finding an E9x engine is easy and relatively cheap, but I'd have to change the rear turbo (probably rebuild mine). Finding an E6x engine is more difficult, and again state of turbos is unknown. Repair transmission
3. B58 or other swap (not likely with everything going on)


The issue with nos. 1 and 2 is while-you're-in-there-itis. I'll more than likely want to swap the transmission at the very least.


I don't even have that much time, my summer toy comes out of storage on May 1st and into the garage.

[pbonsalb]

Make sure the door is not open when you try to shift; the computer will put the trans back into park to save you from being an idiot. The cars think they are smarter than us now. In some ways, they are and that is only going to be one more true in the future.

I would not spend any more on repairing the auto than a new filter pan, fluid and mechatronic sleeves. I probably would not go as far as solenoids due to the expense but some do and I think you can buy rebuilt mechatronics units if you want. I’d probably look at a 6 speed manual conversion.

[tantumaude]

Make sure the door is not open when you try to shift; the computer will put the trans back into park to save you from being an idiot.

I was an idiot. Closed the door and it works. I was able to keep the engine running a few seconds and use the torque to break one of the rear weels loose. Of course, having an open diff means that the other one is now really stuck. Thanks!

I started prepping the engine for removal. Unfortunately all the coolant hoses quick connects are stuck. Is there a way to keep the condenser hooked up? I'd rather not evacuate and have to refill te AC (PO had a lot of issues with it, the fittings were replaced and I'd rather not disturb them)

[pbonsalb]

I have not taken one of these motors apart. Could you pull the pan and check rod bearings? Or do you think it’s main bearings and you would want to pull the bed plate? Often if there is knock, it’s too late but every now and then someone catches it in time. Damage depends on how long it’s been making noise.

Those hoses are a pain. I had to wrestle with them but got them apart eventually. I wonder if there is any sort of lubricant you could use that would not damage anything.

[tantumaude]

I have not taken one of these motors apart. Could you pull the pan and check rod bearings? Or do you think it’s main bearings and you would want to pull the bed plate? Often if there is knock, it’s too late but every now and then someone catches it in time. Damage depends on how long it’s been making noise.

Those hoses are a pain. I had to wrestle with them but got them apart eventually. I wonder if there is any sort of lubricant you could use that would not damage anything.

I think the engine is done--listen to the noise in the video I took this morning. It ran for about 45 seconds and stalled out. I've found another one locally (from a 335 though, so need to swap a few things over). The big question is what to do with the tranny--to swap or not?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vx2efUiUAeY

[pbonsalb]

If you get a tranny with the motor, both guaranteed working and for a fair price, swap them together. If you prefer manuals, convert to one. I actually like autos with turbos these days, where autos perform better than manuals, as opposed to 20+ years ago.

[tantumaude]

Leaning heavily toward the manual swap at this point, for three reasons:
1. I already have the transmission, and the replacement engine arriving tomorrow has the flywheel and clutch already (although I think I'll replace the clutch). All I need are the clutch hydraulics, pedal, shifter assembly and rear driveshaft and I'll be set.
2. The transmission came from one of the 31 Canadian E61 LCIs. I feel a moral obligation to try to keep that number as high as I can
3. I prefer manual anyways.

Anyways, engine hoses and such are all out. A pic I took yesterday before moving the condenser out of the way:

IMG_20200408_182002_358.jpg

Tomorrow I have to disconnect the steering system (that looks like fun) and start attacking the exhaust (looks like a rusty mess), transmission, transfer case and driveshafts.

[pbonsalb]

This is turning into a big project. Hope the car was cheap enough to make it all worthwhile. There was a guy a couple of years ago who started a thread here in redoing a 535 wagon. He did an absolutely incredible job. You should find it. He included a lot of pictures. He did the manual swap, upgraded turbos, and I think he swapped or rebuilt or refurbished the motor. He went way beyond what you want to do but it is inspiring to see what he did.

[tantumaude]

This is turning into a big project. Hope the car was cheap enough to make it all worthwhile. There was a guy a couple of years ago who started a thread here in redoing a 535 wagon. He did an absolutely incredible job. You should find it. He included a lot of pictures. He did the manual swap, upgraded turbos, and I think he swapped or rebuilt or refurbished the motor. He went way beyond what you want to do but it is inspiring to see what he did.

Indeed, I've been reading that thread with great interest. He did a stellar job. Ultimately I'll be getting an E61 M5 from Europe in three years once they are allowed into Canada, this will just tide me over.

I got the car for 2000$, so not bad. However, given that I must probably rebuild the turbos, I suppose my next paycheque (working severely reduced hours) will determine just how far this project can go. The swap will happen, but may have to wait.

[pbonsalb]

You can import one in Canada. No such luck here. I could build one, but that is a big project. I am tempted to buy the a 2014-2018 E63 AMG Bi Turbo wagon instead. I like turbo torque. I know the S85 is special — I have the little brother S65 in my E90M3, but I really like torque. AWD to put the power down, an auto or DCT for seamless power with shifts faster than any human, and big power and torque.

[tantumaude]

You can import one in Canada. No such luck here. I could build one, but that is a big project. I am tempted to buy the a 2014-2018 E63 AMG Bi Turbo wagon instead. I like turbo torque. I know the S85 is special — I have the little brother S65 in my E90M3, but I really like torque. AWD to put the power down, an auto or DCT for seamless power with shifts faster than any human, and big power and torque.

Agreed. My daily is a S600TT with a mild tune, one gets spoiled very quickly with the torque. This E61 will actually be the least powerful car I own.
It's all straight roads and heavy traffic (not now though) where I live, so AMGs make a lot of sense--M cars, less so.

At any rate, the replacement engine is here, as are a cherry picker and stand. Now for the fun part--removing the power steering and front diff. Ugh.