E36 Swaybar question for a newbie (yes I’ve done an extensive search)

[HandsomeMike]

Fingers crossed, I should be buying a 97 328i on Friday, and I plan to mod it for the SCCA Time Trials Nationals at NCM Motorsports Park as well as enjoy it around town on the weekends. Plans are as follows:

H&R Touring Cup kit
200tw tires
Hawk race pads for track days
Aluminum radiator

Question... H&R has a 28 front 21 rear sway bar kit. I can buy an Eibach 28 front and H&R rear 21 for less money. Can’t tell if they’re both solid or if ones hollow etc. Who has experience with this shock/strut spring setup and what bar combo worked best for you? Does mismatching brands of bars matter or is it the same result?

Thanks!

[jr02518]

https://www.hotchkis.net/product/199...rt-suspension/

These are what will be going on my car, 1994 325is in the not to distant future.

David

[HandsomeMike]

Those are huge! And they are proud of them at $807 for the set.

[aeronaut]

Buy whichever front has the most adjustment. Not sure which HR springs come with their Touring Cup setup, but that will significantly impact ARB selection and settings. Consider getting some time in the car before you buy a rear bar, or either.

[HandsomeMike]

It comes with the sport springs that lower 1.5 front 1 rear. I’m new to BMW and have read the e36 has natural understeer. If I do front bar only will it not exacerbate the problem or will the shock/springs correct it enough in the rear without a bigger rear bar?

[aeronaut]

Stock, the E36 has understeer. To fix, common practice for the E36 is to increase front bar size and use OE rear. And, increase front negative camber (this make the most difference, IMO).
McPhearson struts have wonky dynamic geometry, and the belief is a big front bar (and/or stiff springs) limits the wonkiness.
I run a moderate sized front bar and OE rear. But I also have coilovers and specific spring rates. My car is neutral enough that changing the ARB one setting makes a difference, and I can use the throttle to steer the car in most turns.

That said, others use no rear bar, or big rear bar. It hugely depends on your spring rates, application (autox, track, etc) and driving style. ARBs re meant to fine tune, not fix problems.

[HandsomeMike]

I may start with the 28mm front bar then and stock rear and see how it feels. The car will see occasional autox and a few track days per year. I’m going to do the SCCA time trials in September for fun and the experience. And the track is 50 minutes away from my house! I’m coming to BMW from a Corvette so things are similar but also very different.

[HandsomeMike]

Also, having trouble finding the spring rates for the e36 sport package vs H&R sports. Is there a guide on here I could bookmark?

[pbonsalb]

You would have to search. I have seen those rates posted here before. Maybe in suspension or maybe in track or maybe in E36 subforums.

[aeronaut]

I found the following non-confirmed rates in my notes. From various internet searches.

HR OE & Sport Springs:
200/380 (and progressive?)

[HandsomeMike]

I’ve seen those but can’t find the OEM sport package spring rate to compare to. If they’re roughly the same I’ll just upgrade the shocks/struts to Koni SA.

[bimmerboy318]

I ran the stock front and rear sway bars on my 95 M3 last. I believe they are (22.5mm/19mm). This year, I upgraded the front to a 325is sway bar (24mm). Car ran a 2:30 at NCM. The key for me was cranking enough camber into the car. See my build thread for details. This year I'm shooting for 2:25 or better.

- - - Updated - - -

Your best bang for buck on sways is to use the M3 end links that hook directly to the strut.

[HandsomeMike]

I cant change the attachment points of the sways and stay in Sport class for the Time Trials Nationals. What is a good alignment for a weekend car that will give me some better grip but not wear out my tires around town? It blows my mind how hard it is to find any technical info about the e36 suspension. I had a chart for my Corvette that listed every year with all spring rates, spring codes, wheel sizes, offsets, weights, tire sizes, sway bar size and if solid/hollow. I feel like its the best kept secret in the world! I've asked Tire Rack, Turner and Pelican for the stock sport suspension spring rates and no one knows. Crazy! My plan looks to be H&R touring cup kit, 28mm solid front bar, factory rear 18mm and 200tw tires and I'll go from there.

[bimmerboy318]

No experience with the H&R kit. But I’ve been extremely satisfied with TC Kline double adjustable coil overs on both my e36 and f80 M3s.

No experience with the H&R kit. But I’ve been extremely satisfied with TC Kline double adjustable coil overs on both my e36 and f80 M3s.

If you're stuck using the stock sway bar end links, then bigger is better up front. I think someone has a 32mm solid? Turner? Hopefully some others will chime in with spring rates but at NCM I'm running 400/500. In general, I prefer everything on the soft side.

Hawk DTC-70 brake can handle the stopping duty even NCM. But if on a budget, Powerstop "Track Day Spec" pads are about 1/4 the cost.

RE71Rs in 245/40-17 are your best bet as far as 200s go.

I believe everyone is quiet as the e36 platform needs other mods to survive track duty. Chassis reinf (found on M3s), subframe reinf, RTAB pocket reinf, Stewart water pump, replace all rubber bushings with track versions, dual fuel pumps, oil pan baffle, make sure cooling system is truly up to the task (ie. change/upgrade everything), stainless brake lines, etc. These are likely the same things that you had to change/upgrade on the C5.

The e36 is very capable on track but we are all fighting age. Once new, you are driving the greatest 3-series chassis that BMW ever developed.

[HandsomeMike]

The car already has an aluminum radiator, stainless brake lines, upgraded water pump. From what I’ve learned the H&R are progressive rates but essentially 200/380 rates. Hoping to do some touring laps at NCM soon to at least get a feel for the car.

[bimmerboy318]

IMO, touring laps at NCM are a waste of money because they tell you no faster than 60mph. If you want touring laps, I know for a fact that the NCM Corvette Bash HPDE event and all of 1010ths Motorsports HPDE events have free touring laps during lunch both days on the weekend for anyone that wants to show up. And most times both groups have orientation laps that I think they let anyone drive or perhaps only registered participants each morning of the weekend. But lunch touring laps are free, no helmets, and passengers are ok.

For a real shake down and learn the track, register for NCM's HPDI which is a lead instructor car and 2-3 student cars. Classroom time and 4 sessions on track. First session is pretty slow. But by the 4th session, the instructors will be going HPDE pace through the corners and 75% speed in straights while practicing point bys and passing. You'll get tires and brakes up to temp on the 3rd and 4th session. And you'll learn the line. The only corners you won't get a good feel for are the (2) high speed sweepers being turn 5 and turn 16 as you should creep up on those 1mph at a time at a full DE.

[MINIz guy]

Hawk DTC-70 brake can handle the stopping duty even NCM. But if on a budget, Powerstop "Track Day Spec" pads are about 1/4 the cost.

Have you ran the "Track Day Spec" pads a lot? How many days/hours/sessions (however you keep track) did they last?

I just bought a set because they were cheap, and their temp rating was higher than the Hawk HP+ I usually run on track. I wanted a little more braking force so I decided on the Powerstop over DTC-60's.

[bimmerboy318]

Ran track day spec for 2 weekends or 16 sessions. Only used in the front and kept DTCs in the rear. One at NCM and one at Putnam. Used them because I had them on hand and wanted to burn them up. They do seem to last equal to the Hawks... but ultimate stopping power is not quite the same. I do recall we had rain on/off and very cool weather at the end of last year. Pretty sure that I could’ve faded them on a warm day at full pace. Not my primary pad and because of FCP euro, I’ll be sticking to Hawks.

[MINIz guy]

Ran track day spec for 2 weekends or 16 sessions. Only used in the front and kept DTCs in the rear. One at NCM and one at Putnam. Used them because I had them on hand and wanted to burn them up. They do seem to last equal to the Hawks... but ultimate stopping power is not quite the same. I do recall we had rain on/off and very cool weather at the end of last year. Pretty sure that I could’ve faded them on a warm day at full pace. Not my primary pad and because of FCP euro, I’ll be sticking to Hawks.

Great! I think I made the right choice then.

[HandsomeMike]

I’ve done the HPDI in my Corvette. Might do again in the 328, which I did buy and bring home today! I’ll look into the touring laps during the HPDE events too.

[bimmerboy318]

Post photos! Welcome to bimmerforums!

[HandsomeMike]

I’m at my national sales meeting right now but will post pics Friday. I will have the suspension, brakes and tires waiting for me when I get home. Whoop whoop! Attending a HPDI at NCM on April 11th.

[HandsomeMike]

Pics. 0066A180-EA5B-4883-B831-0EFEE3DCA1B0.jpg69BFF736-6DD4-44E4-B2F0-6F68B1BB33BB.jpg7F0B661D-17E7-461E-907C-8029BF4CC027.jpg2AA2CA3D-FE92-4C0A-8A40-95C4F36514CD.jpg

[HandsomeMike]

UPDATE:

Just picked up the car after having the touring cup kit and 28mm front bar installed. The car sits a bit lower than the OE Sport suspension did but not too much. Ride quality is a touch firmer but still comfortable around town. Definitely flatter in corners! I didn’t have a chance yet to really toss it around but I think I’m going to like it.

Question: Do I need an alignment now that the car is a bit lower than it was?


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[jakermac]

Question: Do I need an alignment now that the car is a bit lower than it was?

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Absolutely yes. Your toe will be changed from the lowering and especially the front toe need corrected to prevent premature wearing out of your tires.