Phantom Supercharger

[e31bev]

phantom.jpgHas anybody ever tried an electric supercharger on their e36?

[zellamay]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_supercharger

[spyderg0d]

Hahahahahahahahha

[pbonsalb]

Many years ago Thomas Knight made an electric supercharger kit that worked. It took a couple of car batteries and could supply power for only a few seconds at a time. It added power, though. Soon, with 48V electrical systems, electric superchargers will reappear and work better.

[spyderg0d]

Imagine a world where you can plug your sulercharger into a ciggerette lighter and have instant horsetorques added.. Hahahahahahah
I find this so horribly amusing.

[samy01]

where do you expect the power to come from.

12v or 48v doesn't even matter, the total power draw is the same, you can just run smaller diameter wires because of the higher voltage.

the electrical power has to come from somewhere.

[jmo69]

This should supply enough air.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[spyderg0d]

Reminds me of those spinning turbine wheels they sold as fuel efficiency devices.. Put the little ring with a spinning propeller in the intake track, somehow they idioticly thoaght the propeller spinning was making the air spin and lead to better fuel mileage....
Sorta like this,... Theres no way that thing could supply enough air to the engine, nevertheless compress it.. Even the actual real deal ones are much much bigger, and only provide an anti lag purposes not actually creating any boost.

[pbonsalb]

12v or 48v doesn't even matter, the total power draw is the same, you can just run smaller diameter wires because of the higher voltage.

Ask the car companies that are developing them or their suppliers.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/jalopni...1795017793/amp

https://www.motorauthority.com/news/...nate-turbo-lag

https://www.borgwarner.com/technolog...g-technologies

https://www.wardsauto.com/industry/v...-superchargers

https://www.garrettmotion.com/electr...SAAEgJ5WvD_BwE

[jmo69]

Reminds me of those spinning turbine wheels they sold as fuel efficiency devices.. Put the little ring with a spinning propeller in the intake track, somehow they idioticly thoaght the propeller spinning was making the air spin and lead to better fuel mileage....
Sorta like this,... Theres no way that thing could supply enough air to the engine, nevertheless compress it.. Even the actual real deal ones are much much bigger, and only provide an anti lag purposes not actually creating any boost.

My car had one of those Turbonaters in the intake boot when I bought the car. Nothing spun, just made made the air "twist" if that's possible. I did a test one day on a hundred mile loop. Drove the 1st 50 miles with it in place, filled and checked my fuel mileage. Took it out and drove the same route back. 99% freeway with little traffic and the same cruise settings. No difference in the results. Talked to someone who claimed to be a hyper-miler (all BS) and it improved his mileage substantially. He shut up pretty quick when I gave him my results. In those days I could easily pull down 30+mpg on the highway.

[samy01]

12v or 48v doesn't even matter, the total power draw is the same, you can just run smaller diameter wires because of the higher voltage.

Ask the car companies that are developing them or their suppliers.

https://www.motorauthority.com/news/...nate-turbo-lag

https://www.borgwarner.com/technolog...g-technologies

https://www.wardsauto.com/industry/v...-superchargers

https://www.garrettmotion.com/electr...SAAEgJ5WvD_BwE

ask what ?

[pbonsalb]

Your questions. You asked where does the power come from. You also said that 12V or 48V does not matter, but if you studied electric superchargers you would find that the automakers are considering them more seriously now that they are moving to 48V electrical systems.

[Thrifty S50]

Suprised nobody mentioned the Cleetus vid where the test a 48v electric turbo and show something like a 50hp gain.



They tried a double electric turbo and made even more power.

[spyderg0d]

That was awsome! Hahahah

- - - Updated - - -

Puts an s50 at the best $2500 bolt on ever.. .. Not really.. A 2.2 got 5lb boost.. That puts a 3.l with a larger rev range at what? 2lb or less? I guess that might be worth the money if you wanted a little push and have able to be put on amd taken off without any sort of crazy modification.. Probably dope af on a little m44.

[ChuckDizzle]

Obviously we all forgot about what happened in 2005. I give you...The Turbonator



Who needs to deal with silly wiring and electrics, just shove this bad boy compressor into your intake pipe for instant cheap power

[spyderg0d]

Thats what i was talking about above! The little spinning propeller that did nothing but spin itself and make restriction. Ha!

[gdavid]

I can see where, if done properly, a electric supercharger could provide an effective and very street-able high efficiency motor for production cars. Operating much like a hybrid, where a relatively small motor, operating as naturally aspirated meets your needs 95% of the time but the supercharger kicks in for acceleration. Combined with hybrid port and direct injection, you could run a typical NA compression ratio and the direct injectors would be set up to run in boosted operation. An electric motor could provide a virtually lag free driving experience. Auto manufacturers would set up their engine design such that the same long block, exhaust and ecu hardware is used across a model range, but by simply incorporating a ecu tune, different intake manifold, throttle body, alternator and an electric supercharger would provide a very modular upgrade. If the charger fails completely, the motor would continue to run in a lower power mode which is unlike a belt driven centrifugal or positive displacement which typically destroy the serpentine belt which of course takes out your cooling and all accessories.

I don't see it being as practical for an aftermarket application, as the performance gains are not sufficient for most tuners to justify the very modest gains, turbos are proven to triple or quadruple the power output of our motors, where an electric turbo would probably realize a 50% increase at best. The potential of an electric turbo charger with very good street manors would require careful design integration from the inception of the engine so it would provide the best benefit in the production world, getting the tuning, fueling and airflow correct for a seamless transition would require extensive R&D that the aftermarket wouldn't pursue for such modest potential.

[spyderg0d]

Yeah ok.... Sure... Turbo shenanigans are bigger... For guy that doesnt want to do all that work.. I could see dumping the cadh on this and the local tune guy $100-$200for the tune then being on the marry way just for another 50whp... Shit.. I built a 3l stroker motor for less gains then that, with alot more work involved although with less money... Seems reasonable if you dont want big power number or massively modified anything.. You forget the massive market of those clientele... Like the generation that boaght the said vortex turbine wheels noted above.. Hahah. Prolly how some of the people started in this website..

[pbonsalb]

I don't see it being as practical for an aftermarket application, as the performance gains are not sufficient for most tuners to justify the very modest gains, turbos are proven to triple or quadruple the power output of our motors, where an electric turbo would probably realize a 50% increase at best. The potential of an electric turbo charger with very good street manors would require careful design integration from the inception of the engine so it would provide the best benefit in the production world, getting the tuning, fueling and airflow correct for a seamless transition would require extensive R&D that the aftermarket wouldn't pursue for such modest potential.

You could say the same thing about aftermarket belt driven supercharger kits and aftermarket exhaust driven turbo kits, yet both exist and a few people buy them. I don’t think it is as complicated as you make it out to be. Integration can be through an ECU tune or a piggyback controller. It’s the power source that is the current obstacle; you need either higher voltage — 48V will be coming to more and more new cars, or battery packs to store power to allow more amp draw from older 12V systems.

This was done over 15 years ago — http://www.superstreetonline.com/how...-supercharger/

Today, with lithium batteries, it could be done with even better results.

Another thing you will see is add on electric motors. There is already a kit that puts an electric motor into each rear wheel of the Honda Civic Type R. But the system is 12V and needs storage batteries.

I don’t really follow this stuff closely since I do not presently need it. I centrifugal supercharged my E36M3 15 years ago and changed to a turbo 10 years ago. I am happy with the performance — it can make 700 rwhp. But I think hybrid cars can offer great performance rather than just be fuel economizers. We will be seeing more performance hybrids that outperform their gas counterparts. I would consider one down the road. But for now, my next car will probably be a used twin turbo auto/DCT AWD car like a Porsche 911 Turbo or Mercedes AMG E63 BiTurbo or Audi RS7 or Porsche Panamerica Turbo. I’ll probably watch and wait 5-10 years before going partial electric to see what is out there, how it performs, and the cost in the used market.

[gdavid]

You could say the same thing about aftermarket belt driven supercharger kits and aftermarket exhaust driven turbo kits, yet both exist and a few people buy them. I don’t think it is as complicated as you make it out to be. Integration can be through an ECU tune or a piggyback controller. It’s the power source that is the current obstacle; you need either higher voltage — 48V will be coming to more and more new cars, or battery packs to store power to allow more amp draw from older 12V systems.

This was done over 15 years ago — http://www.superstreetonline.com/how...-supercharger/

Today, with lithium batteries, it could be done with even better results.

Another thing you will see is add on electric motors. There is already a kit that puts an electric motor into each rear wheel of the Honda Civic Type R. But the system is 12V and needs storage batteries.

I don’t really follow this stuff closely since I do not presently need it. I centrifugal supercharged my E36M3 15 years ago and changed to a turbo 10 years ago. I am happy with the performance — it can make 700 rwhp. But I think hybrid cars can offer great performance rather than just be fuel economizers. We will be seeing more performance hybrids that outperform their gas counterparts. I would consider one down the road. But for now, my next car will probably be a used twin turbo auto/DCT AWD car like a Porsche 911 Turbo or Mercedes AMG E63 BiTurbo or Audi RS7 or Porsche Panamerica Turbo. I’ll probably watch and wait 5-10 years before going partial electric to see what is out there, how it performs, and the cost in the used market.

Aftermarket electric supercharging can definitely work but I don't think it would ever compete with a turbo or twin screw blower in terms of maximum HP gain, a significant cost of any forces induction is getting a quality tune, especially if it is a one-off or low production job. As long as you are investing in a tune and fueling upgrades, you might as well get the biggest bang for your buck and that will remain turbo or perhaps a twin screw.

I believe electric supercharging could really stand out in terms of reliability, low maintenance and providing virtually zero lag. Twin screw blowers provide the best response but require periodic maintenance, the belt system is substantially stressed and if the unit locks up, there is no bypass and the car is not drivable especially considering it will have rendered your water pump inoperable. Fully integrating this type of system into a modern engine with variable valve timing, variable valve lift, direct injection, ITB or variable length runners would offer the best potential for performance, efficiency and emissions and I just don't think aftermarket tuners can come close to the amount of R&D that a manufacturer has the resources to accomplish. Additionally, the manufacturer can tailor the hardware to provide the expandability from the design period. I'm not saying that it couldn't work in an aftermarket application but that it's greatest potential is probably in a manufacturer designed and integrated application.

It's definitely an interesting topic for discussion and I would rather discuss something new rather than immediately dismiss it and resume discussing same topic for the thousandth time.

Battery and electric motor technology advancement over the past 15 years has been incredible and I believe it will ultimately be the future for virtually all automotive applications, both factory and aftermarket. Lightweight batteries in a high voltage configuration to reduce line loses, providing high amperage for short periods and quick recoveries could allow electric superchargers to shine but Ultimately I think fully electric drive conversions will be the future of hot rodding especially as batteries and motors become more available in the salvage market.