Another Turbo M50

[cokeisgood00]

Slow going recently. Waiting on parts and all that jazz.

I originally tried to be a cheap ass and picked up some ARP studs second hand thinking, “They’re reusable.... surely I can use them!”

Jokes on me. After spending all the time cleaning up the threads I found out that 5/14 nuts are buggered and two of the studs have Allen keys busted off inside them.

So I ended up ordered a set of a new ones. I could’ve bought new nuts and made those work but I didn’t want to risk it this far in.

SO! Head should be torqued this weekend, cams installed, manifold mounted, and ENGINE IN THE CAR!

I got my homemade mounts made, I’ll post pictures when I remember to take them. They turned out just like Condors images for the most part. Just missing the sticker lol. Stick it to the man.

I’ll be picking up my MS2 tomorrow so I’ll be ordering a flying lead harness shortly.

I ordered:
Wastegate
BOV
AN hose and fittings
Nylon air hose
Oil pressure sensor
Turbo oil feed hose
Flex fuel sensor

And some other goodies today. It will be like a fourth Christmas.

I also ordered a CAN BUS transceiver and a 2.4” TFT display. My plan is to 3D print a housing to pop it in a dash vent and use that along with an Arduino Nano to display AFR, oil pressure, MAP, MAT, e85 %, and knock.

[cokeisgood00]

Here are the engine mounts in all their glory. Not pictured is the sleeve I printed so that I could cut the angle of the top face on the band saw. I counterbored the holes where the heads of the bolts are then I heated the bolt heads and pressed them in.





Here are some replicas of Someguy's cam timing blocks. I retarded the intake camshaft 10° and set the exhaust to 0°. These blocks work great and if anyone doesn't have the means to make their own I highly recommend getting a set from someguy.





Head all assembled and torqued down. All new chains, guides and tensioners. Finally starting to come together.




There she is patiently waiting. Hopefully by this weekend...

Wiring is about 30% there. I need to connect all my sensors and get a couple connectors for things like the knock sensors and the boost solenoid. I did get some fuzzy harness tape so I guess things are getting pretty serious.

[cokeisgood00]

It's been a while but progress it still being made. Since the last post the engine is together and in the car.

This day was a great day and marked a major mile stone. I thought that surely things would pick up pace from here and it would be knocked out in a short amount of time. I quickly learned that I was wrong.



Originally I was going to make an adapter to run the T4 turbo on a T3 flange. However with everything seated in the car I didn't really like how the turbo fit against the passenger side tire well and hood clearance looked like it could be an issue. So after hours of widening the stock T3 flange and facing it on the mill I ended up chopping it off and welding a T4 flange on the manifold.





Being my first time welding a flange on I remembered what heat cycling does to things and I ended up warping the flange pretty good. So back to the Bridgeport to take care of that.



Now that the manifold was done I could put it back in the car. Again... What a PITA that is...


Moving on to the W2A:

Here are some test fitting photos, not much to describe other than how difficult it was to try and visualize the pipe routing and mounting brackets.








BUT with the help of a friend of mine we knocked out the final intercooler location and made some brackets. I'm extremely happy with how it fits and how the reservoir mounts underneath of it.









Thank god for 3D printers to help visualize pipe runs. It wouldn't been more difficult without it for sure.



Here is the heat exchanger in place


ANNNNND the final charge pipe:










The plumbing for the W2A is very straight forward. No weird hose runs and everything is short and direct. I especially like the pump mounting although I'm not thrilled about the look of a bilge pump in the engine bay. One day I'll probably upgrade it, but it should work for now.





Next task was to fab up the down pipe. I was worried about 3.5" pipe being a bear to get around the shock tower but I has just the right amount of room. I actually think it took me longer to figure out what bend radius I wanted than it did to cut the pies and tape them together. For those wondering I used a Diablo Ferrous metal blade on a 10" miter saw to make the cuts. It worked flawlessly. After 14 cuts though it is starting to dull, but for $40 it was worth it.

I can't take credit for welding the down pipe. I did tack it together though! Another friend of mine had pipe plugs and back purge set up and he offered to knock it out for me! Worked for me because he welded all that in about an hour. It would've taken me 4.


















Anyway! That's it for now. I'll post more updates as they come. My plan for the rest of the exhaust it to run dual 2.5" from the down pipe back and recirc the wastegate. I ended up finding a 3.5" single -> dual 2.5" Y pipe so it should work out!

Next after that is to finish the fuel system and finish wiring the megasquirt. I'm hoping to start it in ~2 weeks.

[drstuess]

Awesome progress man! How much do you think the air to water intercooler weighs wet?

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[cokeisgood00]

Awesome progress man! How much do you think the air to water intercooler weighs wet?

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I would guess maybe around 35ish pounds.

I had negative room for a front mount with the ac condenser so it was my only option other than really chopping up the front core support and bumper


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[cokeisgood00]

I need some discussion on exhaust.

My original plan was to reuse the dual exhaust that was already on the car post down pipe, but after ordering the 3.5->dual 2.5 y pipe I found out that my original exhaust is 2" OD dual and not 2.5" OD.

So currently here is what I have:

Turbo -> 3.5" down pipe terminating around the transmission output

Here are my options the way I see them:

1) Use the 3.5 -> dual 2.5 Y pipe and reduce it to 2" and run my OG exhaust (not my favorite option)
2) Order a bunch of 2.5 pipe and build a dual exhaust myself (most time consuming)
3) Take it to an exhaust shop and have them build a 2.5 dual system (probably most $)
4) Return the Y pipe and reduce the 3.5 to 3 and run a single 3
5) Run a single 3.5

Option 1 seems too restrictive with the area of a 3.5" pipe at 8.97 sq.in. vs dual 2" pipes at A = 5.55 sq.in.

Option 2 would almost match the pipe area, but would require a lot of fab time on my back, but I could reuse my dual 2.5" in/out Magnaflow

Option 3 is what I'm most leaning towards out of shear laziness and the desire to RIP IT
Edit: Talked to the exhaust shop and it would be about $250 for them to bend it, fit it, and hang it which is not too bad


Option 4 doesn't seem too bad but I'm not sure how it will do with the difference in area and the fact that I'm recirculating the wastegate.

Option 5 I think is a no go just based on clearance issues.

[drstuess]

Option 1 definitely seems too restrictive as the effective area/difference is greater than the straight area calculation given drag from dual pipes is greater than a single.

My vote would be single 3 or dual 2.5 as the next easier option, although those with high power goals seem to like 3.5 inch.

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[JOMARO]

I was on single 3" exhaust and went to 3.5 " not that much difference regarding clearance, taking to consideration that my e30 is pretty low

[cokeisgood00]

I was on single 3" exhaust and went to 3.5 " not that much difference regarding clearance, taking to consideration that my e30 is pretty low

Do you have any before / after numbers? What kind of power are you making?

[JOMARO]

unfortunately I upgraded my turbo and did many changes with the 3.5" exh
was making 400 whp with 3"
now I m in the 600-700 whp with the 3.5 "

[cokeisgood00]

unfortunately I upgraded my turbo and did many changes with the 3.5" exh
was making 400 whp with 3"
now I m in the 600-700 whp with the 3.5 "

I'm leaning towards the 3.5" route. I can get a pretty good deal on 10 ft of pipe and I've already done alot of pie cuts so whats 30 more?

Are you running a muffler or resonator? If so what did you go with and how is highway cruising with it with regards to droning?

[JOMARO]

I used to run a 3.5" straight pipe thick walled tubes and It was really quieter than my 3" exhaust with a hks muffler and resonator
but I wanted it to be even quieter , so I added a custom made 3.5" muffler and now its almost as a stock m20 NA sound now
pm me to ur email, to send you a sound clip

[cokeisgood00]

A little more progress has been made.

The wastegate recirc pipe is now welded and tacked into place where it meets up with the exhaust. Of all the pipe fitting this was probably the most time consuming.

Cut->Tape->Test fit->Change->Test fit->Tack->Test fit->Repeat...

I'm really happy with how it turned out and extremely glad that I added flex sections in both pipes.

This was the easiest part, leaving the wastegate and making the 120° bend to clear the engine.


I don't have many intermediate progress pictures so here is the final pipe. Tons of pie involved and ludicrous amounts of test fitting to get the outlet angle correct.





Here it is for the final test fit before cutting the 3.5" pipe






Then finally here it is with everything bolted in place tight and the wastegate outlet tacked to the downpipe.



I spent some of the day Tuesday building the circuits inside the MS for the EBC, knock sensing, flex fuel, and CAN connections. All that is left is to mount the TIP125 for the EBC to the case of the MS unit. Just waiting on nylon hardware and MICA insulators to come in.

For the exhaust I ended up going with a single 3" from the output of the transmission back. My main reasoning was lack of availability of mufflers and resonators that I wanted in 3.5". I'll be running a Vibrant barrel resonator in the center and a Summit straight through muffler in the rear.

[pbonsalb]

Nice work on the WG pipe!

[drstuess]

That looks super good!

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[cokeisgood00]

Thanks guys! I’m getting pretty excited to booooost!

[armenh7]

I would suggest you use flex bellows instead of those mesh type ones

[cokeisgood00]

Finished the exhaust up to the end of the transmission tonight. Once the transition piece comes in I can start on the second half of the exhaust.

[pbonsalb]

I would suggest you use flex bellows instead of those mesh type ones

If it is mesh protecting a flex pipe inside, it is fine but bulky. If it is mesh in and out, beware a few have suffered failure where the mesh breaks down inside and clogs the airflow through the pipe.

Did you use a jig when welding? I am a beginner welder and have had the welding heat warp stuff so it does not line up perfectly. With the flex you should have enough play.

[cokeisgood00]

If it is mesh protecting a flex pipe inside, it is fine but bulky. If it is mesh in and out, beware a few have suffered failure where the mesh breaks down inside and clogs the airflow through the pipe.

Did you use a jig when welding? I am a beginner welder and have had the welding heat warp stuff so it does not line up perfectly. With the flex you should have enough play.

I never used a jig. When welded the v bands make sure you keep the opposing side clamped to it while welding and cooling and it shouldn't warp.

For the pie cuts I just made sure to bounce around, and that all four quadrants of the seam were nicely tacked before finish welding.


Most recent update:

Exhaust is fully plumbed all the way out the back. The pictures I have are garbage but it uses all factory hanger locations and fits under the car REALLY nice.

All the random bits are complete except for the arduino gauge display and bleeding the clutch.


The most amazing news is that it actually runs! I spent all yesterday tuning idle and working on small stuff that popped up. Right now I've got a damn near perfect idle around 750-800 RPM with the ICV off.

I'm running about 15-16° timing at idle with a dwell of 2.5s.

I'm am having a issue that I'm hoping I've taken care of. The engine will idle beautifully for a certain amount of time then die out of the blue. I can't find anything that it is related to. I am hoping that it's a crank signal loss issue because I am having some sync loss at 1200+.

So I went ahead and installed a 10k resistor on the crank input and I'm going to readjust the VR conditioner pots when I get home. I'm hoping that solves the idle dying issue.

I've attached the log and my msq for anyone that wants to do some leisure reading.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1KYf...ew?usp=sharing

[cokeisgood00]

Figured out the engine dying problem. Turns out MS2 can’t burn and run the engine at the same time.

Spent two days chasing a “problem”.

In other news everything is done. Now I just have to rework some things.

1) My crankcase venting is inadequate. My original plan of running a catch can with a vacuum pump went kaput because the vacuum pump I chose cannot run continuously.

2) I forgot / didn’t realize I needed to press a valve seat into the wastegate so I’ve been wasting precious boost.

3) My plastic nipple that connects the ICV keeps pushing out even with safety wire holding it back. Rally road piece on the way.

4) Still pushing oil into the exhaust from the turbo.


I originally thought I was pushing oil because of the inadequate CCV. So today I did some testing with a manometer.

With the CCV connected as I had it, valve cover to catch can to turbo inlet. I was seeing 0.5inHg of positive crankcase pressure at idle.

Disconnect the hose at the turbo inlet and it dropped to about 0.1inHg positive at idle.

Open the oil cap and it drops to 0inHg at idle.

Rev the engine with the oil cap removed and it hovers right around 0inHg.

Now I had another vacuum pump a friend gave me. I believe it’s the Chevy air pump. (Not a continuous run pump)

But I hooked it up to the valve cover to test and at full battery voltage it pulled almost 5inHg of vacuum at idle using a 3/8” hose connected to the factory NV CCV port.

Revving the engine up to around 3500-4000 and it held about 4-4.5inHg of vacuum.

HOWEVER! I’m still getting puffs of smoke out of the exhaust when I rev it even with 4inHg of vacuum in the crankcase.

The only thing I can think is the turbo drain is backing up. I never had oil consumption problems like this before the turbo and without negative CC pressure I was pushing oil past the cap.

To me it has to be turbo oil drain related.

My drain is -10 from the turbo to the pan. No J or U shaped sections except for the slight incline going into the pan because the engine sits at an angle.


What’s my next move? I’m trying to decide between a drip tank similar to a Porsche 930 or just saying F it and buying a scavenge pump.

Then for CCV is it worth plumbing the pump? Or should I just vent to a catch can to atmosphere.

[Substance D]

I HATE oil smoke...I have been chasing oil smoke puffs on revs since I built my motor. I have tried open atmosphere CCV, running a Secondary Air pump as a Vaccum pump, Exhaust venturi CCV, and even hooking up the CCV to the intake manifold with check valves like a normal PCV....Nothing has helped, I have brand new valves seals and even guides...still, smoke on free rev. I have run as much as 10in/vc and that helped a little bit, but it was not possible to maintain that level of vaccum under boost without dry sump $$$.... I plan on tearing apart my bottom end, and drilling the Valve covers for 2 -10 ports and just trying to keep CC-pressure at 0.

[cokeisgood00]

I'm leaning towards colossally over-complicating this.

I wanted to run an oil cooler eventually anyways for track days and Florida heat, my turbo is oil cooled only.

I think I'm going to build a drip tank / sump and run a scavenge pump with an oil cooler in the form of:
Feed -> Turbo -> Sump -> Pump -> Cooler -> Pan

Should solve all my oil drainage issues and cool the oil.

[Tops87]

Very nice. I have have just sent my Non Vanos intake cam in to the machine shop. I will be using it in my M52 head but lack the cam locking tool. Would you mind sharing the file to 3D print exhaust locking tool

[PowerKraut]

I had the same issues on the same location drained to pan. For me, the fittings had a bottle neck on the ID of 11mm or so. I have a double dash 10 CCV to atmo, so that should be enough... I am now upgrading to a bigger hose and drain to timing chain cover. not done yet.


your build looks great! no additional cooler for the Air to Water IC?