The new BleedsBlue moneypit: GD62389 '92 M5 3.8

[m60power]

Glad to see you're still enjoying the car! I gotta say, Apex wheels on an E34 is certainly a look that's starting to grow on me. It's probably the only "easy" and relatively affordable way to get a good spec, lightweight 17" wheel for the E34 nowadays, otherwise you have to hunt for good deals constantly. The 17" wheels that used to be cheap like style 5's have gone up in pricing to the point of where they're not worth it anymore for a relatively mediocre spec.

Makes me want to do some HPDE days in the near future... now that I have a job again and a consistent source of income, I might be able to actually attend a few.

I agree on the Apex wheels, I'm not a huge fan of the styling for BMWs of this era but they're hard to beat for weight, price, and fitment. I think they look pretty decent on BleedsBlue's M5. I've been on the hunt for low offset 17x8.5 light weight wheels for my E32 (that look at least somewhat period-correct), and although I'm not a huge fan of the style I kept coming back to the Apex ARC-8 in 17x8.5 ET20; they are only 16.5 pounds!! Nothing else I've found comes close to that. I called Apex and unfortunately they don't have plans to produce that wheel size and offset any more because the demand was just too low So the search continues.

[BleedsBlue]

!!!

off topic curiosity… your clear tails… what brand, and are you happy with them?

The track shots are awesome btw. That e34 booty looks good scootin.

I'm very happy with them...because they are BMW I actually don't mind, or may even prefer ambers on a car this color, but oh well. Thank you!

It's a good thing you did, because a few more ticks of camber and 3mm less spacer is how my car is set up, and that barely clears at full corner loading + bumps. I used to see melted rubber near the front corner of the fender when I only had -3deg camber in front.

You can also play around with more 17x9's in the rear. Max tire width on ground is good for grip, but half the track equation is the driver being able to hold the car on the grip limit comfortably. Less tire stretch gives more progressive sliding behavior

Yep, I had no chance - although I'm much higher ride height than you as well (not entirely by choice, I need coil overs!). Funny enough a 9.5J like my old OZ Mitos really can clear with a 255, but that's an obscure size.

Suspension is always what makes or breaks any car for me. Glad to see this car of yours finally coming together. And glad for few updates because of the car working.

And the fuel line thing... I've been there, at a gas station in the middle of nowhere in California with the very same pump-to-filter line burst. Luckily I carry extra fuel line and such so I was able to do a roadside fix. But my point of every e34 needs the same things still seems to stand true.

I am with you 100%. The powertrain is healthy on this car, and it's got a lot more grunt than my old car - but until I sorted the suspension, I just didn't find myself grabbing the keys to go drive for the sake of driving. That has changed for the better, but I can't get the ride of my old KWs out of my head either. All in good time.

Your point is The Truth and I stand by it!

Glad to see you're still enjoying the car! I gotta say, Apex wheels on an E34 is certainly a look that's starting to grow on me. It's probably the only "easy" and relatively affordable way to get a good spec, lightweight 17" wheel for the E34 nowadays, otherwise you have to hunt for good deals constantly. The 17" wheels that used to be cheap like style 5's have gone up in pricing to the point of where they're not worth it anymore for a relatively mediocre spec.

Makes me want to do some HPDE days in the near future... now that I have a job again and a consistent source of income, I might be able to actually attend a few.

You've hit the nail on the head, Danny. I like supporting Apex as well, because they are US-based (not production, but still) and at the HPDEs I've been to, nearly every BMW's 2nd set of wheels is from Apex. It's insane.

Personally I've never liked the BBS RC look that these ape, but I'm really only running these on track.

I can't recommend the BMWCCA HPDEs enough. Around here they are just under $400 for two full days of instruction (they get cheaper the more advanced you become). But it's lots of seat time and they are more stringent than some of the other clubs.

Let's not discuss the slippery slope of additional costs between failures and upgrades, ok?

I agree on the Apex wheels, I'm not a huge fan of the styling for BMWs of this era but they're hard to beat for weight, price, and fitment. I think they look pretty decent on BleedsBlue's M5. I've been on the hunt for low offset 17x8.5 light weight wheels for my E32 (that look at least somewhat period-correct), and although I'm not a huge fan of the style I kept coming back to the Apex ARC-8 in 17x8.5 ET20; they are only 16.5 pounds!! Nothing else I've found comes close to that. I called Apex and unfortunately they don't have plans to produce that wheel size and offset any more because the demand was just too low So the search continues.

Well that is a bummer! Thank you for sharing, though; they kept that ARC-8 on their website for awhile and I hoped they would make it again. That leaves us with the still-compromised wheels I'm running, a 9J ET30 that takes a lot of spacer but can be run all around, or the 10J ET25 that really only fits the back of a street-focused E34. Still better than nothing.

[a777fan]

I'm very happy with them...because they are BMW I actually don't mind, or may even prefer ambers on a car this color, but oh well. Thank you!

Thanks for the data point. Did they come with the car? Or did your stumble into them at some point?

[BleedsBlue]

Thanks for the data point. Did they come with the car? Or did your stumble into them at some point?

They certainly came with the car when I acquired it, but my research tells me it would have shipped from the factory with these, too (being a Euro). This car is a strange mix of Euro/federalized US crap: a US speedo was put in (normal, and I don't mind that), as were side markers, and the non-OEM Hella spoiler that came on the car had a plumbed in third brake light (there is no third brake light on the parcel shelf).

I'd consider selling the clears, honestly.

[BleedsBlue]

Long overdue update
...delays caused by car not breaking (knocks on wood) and work craziness (per usual).

Earlier this summer, my Eisenmann Race muffler came in, which was destined to mate up with some super trick Angry Ass 321 pipes at a future date. But, having chatted about exhausts with the tech at my newfound shop, I got antsy and decided to have the Eisenmann installed in a semi-reversible way. This is some serious #manmaths, as I would then have to cut the Eisenmann off and if I wanted to (I do) salvage the OEM backbox in the future, I'd have to reweld that piece together. And, I'd have to pay for all of that. So here we go.

Off to the shop, with rear bumper following in my truck so the shop didn't have to/charge me to remove it.


Because the Eisenmann tips are a lot larger than stock, it soon became clear that with the adjustment available in the rear bumper square bolt holes, this was not going to work. With the evidence found, we think the car had at least a mild rear collision: slightly tweaked rear bumper shocks, the slight mismatching of paint on the rear bumper compared to the rest of the car (and lack of proper Granitsilber lower trim), condition of sheet metal behind the rear bumper, etc. It does not appear to have hit the trunk area itself, thankfully.

The shop and I decided to oval out the bumper bolt holes to enable the bumper to sit higher, which helped closed the body gap a bit and gained perfect clearance for the tail pipes. I took the opportunity to source a new heatshield, although the larger and more important shield is NLA everywhere! I'm trying to find one, and if I can, Angry Ass will use it to make reproductions since again, this piece does a lot of good especially for exhausts that will really cook.

Crispy critter on the right, shiny new-new on the left


The shop tech has built a lot of exhausts, using a variety of aftermarket parts, and he was generally approving of the Eisenmann quality. He noted that the rear pipes intended to connect with the factory back section were not perfect, so there was some fiddling involved - but in the end, he nailed the fitment and I was a happy camper.





Toight as a tiger


Ragrats
Retaining the factory rear resonators, this muffler added a bit of bass at idle, and that's it. It looks better, but hands down, I should have saved my money and just jumped straight to the Angry Ass full exhaust. I did save ~18lbs off the rear, but weight savings will be far more aggressive with the full planned AA exhaust. Oh well, it's just money...

Speaking of acoustics, we wanted to test an S38B38-specific change, which was to sample the in-car engine note with the factory airbox resonator disconnected. In the widely-circulated translated Swiss dealer literature for the B38 M5, the resonator is said to reduce intake volume - which is not something one wants with an S38! Plus, this is a 5min swap, so no sweat off my back.

Factory B38 horn with resonator tie-in below, B36 horn to bypass the resonator above


I didn't even bother capturing audio, because the change was so undesirable. I swear the intake noise was quieter, but more noticeably, it was less melodious and just unpleasant! It was a relief to hook up the resonator again and take the car out, my bassy and refined B38 intake howl restored. I don't recommend this, LOL.

Prep for track weekend 2 of the year (4 total)
My next event with the car was the 2nd HPDE track weekend of the year, so I had a few items to see to. Particularly because it was expected to be warm (90F+), I took a look at my CEL-free intermittent hot starting issue, where the car would sometimes idle low (5-600rpm) on hot restart for 20-30sec before smoothing out. Angry Ass has just started carrying plugs from the dealer, so that was an easy swap. The old plugs looked great, but old for sure.

I'm ok with this electrode hue


What jumped out at me was that 5x of the coil packs looked very original (this is at 115k+ miles!).



The fresh plugs seemed to have cured 90% of the issue; it's now truly once a blue moon that the warm restart low idle is occurring. Just from a mileage standpoint, I'd like to replace the coil packs - I haven't bothered testing them or the other easy step of figuring out if any are misfiring during the low idle. This is actually something I would buy OE from FCPEuro for the warranty, versus OEM - BMW gets theirs straight from China now

Little did I know how expensive this proposition is in 2021


I had carried over my MSI lug nuts from my B36, which meant they were approaching 3 years old (with 1.5 Colorado winters on them). The exterior coating failure was not much of a concern, but there are theories that the lug seat areas need to have a nice coating for proper tension, so I swapped all 20x to be safe. This fall, my rear studs are due for replacement as they have 2x years and soon, 4x track weekends on them.



Then, since one of my fog light housings was loose and I had a front fog light code AND I don't really use them, I swapped in some deletes, losing another ~2lbs. The fog lights are surprisingly light: add them to the hilarious items stripped from the Winklehock M5 (sun visors, anyone?) that made nary a difference.

A very loved M5 judging by the rock chips - Tow hook by Condor, though we are developing our own


I decided to pull my driver seat for two reasons: because I'm old and it would make installing an Angry Ass fire extinguisher bracket all the easier, and because there was no other solution to replace the manual seat recline shocks!

Those holes in the bolster are the only wear on the actual cloth of this interior, but they need to be sorted!


At one of the earlier trackdays, I discovered my driver seat did not recline under control - you pull the lever, and the seatback falls into the backseat! CaneDVM pointed me to the appropriate shocks, which are simple but devious little fuggers. I ended up buying a very large C-clamp from the hardware store (I believe this is colloquially called the "Kohler" method with E28 seat shocks?).



I knew I would never live it down if my M5 ever caught fire/burned to the ground, and I had no extinguisher, and my company sold one, so, this was high time!

The cobbler's kids have no shoes type of thing


Quick Schroth QFP diversion
I think I installed this before the previous HPDE weekend, but I wanted to highlight it because I think it can really help E34 guys with stock seats. Using the E36 part/number (which appears to be shared with E46 and E39, per the tag), I bought a Schroth "Quick Fit Pro" (QFP) harness because I was really moving around in my stock Sport seat and the factory 3 point seatbelt.

These being manual Sportsitz, I was juuuuust able to adjust the seat up and down so that I could thread the male hard point onto the left hand (driver seat, LHD) seat belt bolt. Then I bought a cheap E36 rear seat belt just for the female part, and installed that with a longer, appropriate seatbelt-grade bolt onto my left hand rear seatbelt mounting point. With a new male seatbelt point on the left hand of the driver's seat, and a new female receptacle behind me, "installing" the QFP was as simple as buckling in and adjusting.

I think any E34 without a breadbox/4x seat configuration can skip over the extra rear E36 female receptacle part I needed



While not cheap, one of these harnesses is certainly cheaper than a race seat! The positive effect was immediately noticeable for me, greatly reducing my soreness the day after and allowing me to focus on driver inputs, not bracing myself in the factory couch cushion/loose belt. Power Sportsitz might have an advantage in that you can ratchet the 3 point belt, and anti-recline yourself into tension, but that strategy just did not work well with manual adjustment seats, even with fresh reclining shocks (see above).

I've got to run, but track day results (all positive) and photodump to come soon!

[moroza]

Did you buy new recline gas springs? I need some too, and planning on fabricating coil spring replacements. The tiny bit of smoothness gained by gas springs for the infrequent event of reclining the seats is not worth the reliability cost. At first blush, the spring inside an M50 chain tensioner looks like a promising candidate.

IMO, the Winkelhock M5 is just stupid. No rear headrests, but still rear seats? No sunvisors, but still a sunroof?

[BleedsBlue]

Did you buy new recline gas springs? I need some too, and planning on fabricating coil spring replacements. The tiny bit of smoothness gained by gas springs for the infrequent event of reclining the seats is not worth the reliability cost. At first blush, the spring inside an M50 chain tensioner looks like a promising candidate.

IMO, the Winkelhock M5 is just stupid. No rear headrests, but still rear seats? No sunvisors, but still a sunroof?

I did! I did not think of coil springs, but I'd be interested in what you come up with. I don't have a sense of how long these little struts will last, but hopefully the life of the car.

The Winkelhock is a funny thing, and I figure a lot comes down to Joachim himself and his preferences. The sunroof is ridiculous in context! If he were a taller guy, I bet the sunroof would have been nixed, but it sure leaves a lot of weight (high) on the table.

-Smaller battery* (66 amp versus 85 amp)
-Smaller gas tank* (80 liters)
-Reduced sound deadening material*
-Deletion of power rear windows, rear headrests, fog lights, vanity mirrors*
*NOTE: These changes reduced the curb weight of the Winkelhock M5 by 88 lbs. compared to the standard M5.

-Wider 255/40ZR17 rear tires on 9x17 M System I alloy wheels
-Suede-covered steering wheel, shift knob, shift boot, parking brake handle
-Recaro front sport seats in Anthracite M cloth with Black Nappa leather bolsters
-Red seat belts front and rear
-Special leather service book pouch, key holder and gold pin

MRegistry neglects to note my bolded line, and how the Recaros also saved weight. Although I bet some of that is mitigated by the bulky, OEM-style seat bases (which look great and are probably worth the weight penalty). The rear windows, headrests, fog lights, and vanity mirrors are combined maybe 10% of the weight loss, but I suppose still worth mentioning in the context of your typically-loaded up premium model.

[mottati]

Interesting, i've had that hot idle low rpm on my silver 3.8 a handful of random times. Always hot restart. Never gave it much thought though.

[BleedsBlue]

Interesting, i've had that hot idle low rpm on my silver 3.8 a handful of random times. Always hot restart. Never gave it much thought though.

No kidding? I've treated it the same, especially after clean Blackstones - I don't think there is anything ominous occurring. I haven't even googled the issue. I plan to replace a lot of basic maintenance items on the car, and will keep you updated on which (if any) systems might resolve the issue. I could certainly use the full Angry Ass vacuum hose kit set we are now offering, all I've done so far is the intake vacuum lines.

[danespann]

Long overdue update


Toight as a tiger




I had carried over my MSI lug nuts from my B36, which meant they were approaching 3 years old (with 1.5 Colorado winters on them). The exterior coating failure was not much of a concern, but there are theories that the lug seat areas need to have a nice coating for proper tension, so I swapped all 20x to be safe. This fall, my rear studs are due for replacement as they have 2x years and soon, 4x track weekends on them.





At one of the earlier trackdays, I discovered my driver seat did not recline under control - you pull the lever, and the seatback falls into the backseat! CaneDVM pointed me to the appropriate shocks, which are simple but devious little fuggers. I ended up buying a very large C-clamp from the hardware store (I believe this is colloquially called the "Kohler" method with E28 seat shocks?).

Nice big update! I've learned firsthand that stud maintenance is important. Funny to hear something being called the "Kohler method" half way across the country.

Watch that bumper for melting with the exhaust tips so close to it. I know mine is melted with more clearance than yours, but it's probably more painful to see it happen to an expensive M bumper.

[BleedsBlue]

Nice big update! I've learned firsthand that stud maintenance is important. Funny to hear something being called the "Kohler method" half way across the country.

Just wait for the photo dump! And yes, I'm so glad your stud failure lesson was not too costly. On track, you're lucky to avoid injury and it's usually pretty damaging for the car. So I am definitely staying on top of it.

Watch that bumper for melting with the exhaust tips so close to it. I know mine is melted with more clearance than yours, but it's probably more painful to see it happen to an expensive M bumper.

I'm glad you said something, man: the shop tech and I were sure wondering. There is not a way to gain more clearance, especially without the muffler hanging too low! I've been looking, but so far failing, to find some form of insulation that does not look like wannabe drift hax tape.

[Johal E32]

I love the updates! Keep them coming

Can't wait to see the AAS exhaust solution, I desperately need something better for my E34

[BleedsBlue]

I love the updates! Keep them coming

Can't wait to see the AAS exhaust solution, I desperately need something better for my E34

Thank you sir! We'll see some prototype exhaust stuff soon; it's a niche that needs filling as even the SuperSprint system is ripe for improvement.

HPDE update
I've been sitting on these nice photos for too long - life keeps getting in the way!

The same weekend as The Vintage (which we ended up skipping), the Lone Star BMWCCA chapter had another DE weekend at Hallett near Tulsa, OK. This was actually the first HPDE CaneDVM and I attended (last year), in which my dual mass flywheel yeeted center from outer section, etc - but the track is dear to our hearts now.

This is, again, 500 miles one way for me, so I considered towing as an insurance policy in case something went wrong - then decided the extra cost and stress of towing (which I just never do, so not that comfortable doing it) wasn't worth it. As before, I met CaneDVM near D/FW on the Friday before the event, and we cruised up to the hotel where most HPDE folks stay. Aside from insane traffic in the middle of the panhandle (thanks, I35), and a persistent E34-esque shimmy (no change with braking, just constant between certain speeds) that only showed up when I remounted my track wheels, the trip was smooth.

We were smarter this time out, and rented a covered bay for the weekend. It was good weather, but the sun wears on you and both days were 80F+ and the humidity was building. Turns out, we only rented half of the bay, which was fine because CaneDVM brought an E36ti and we both fit easily, and also because our neighbor brought the only other classic BMW - a low mileage, mint M6!



This guy was a low key collector who likes bringing his new additions to the track to suss out their limits, responsibly. He showed us on-track photos of a certain red M1 he brought out the other year, which recently sold on BaT for... babillions. What a legend.



CaneDVM and I were both repping Apex Race Wheels this time out - same setup as last time for me.

Hyper silver is not smart if you care about brake dust...


A personal goal this event was to avoid beating up my tires. These 615k+ were super affordable, but still - I've been overdriving my tires like many noobs, scrubbing speed through tire punishing. Much better to slow down more and keep the tires in their happy place

These 255s on a 9 are the largest (easily-achieved) front fitment


Time to drive in anger
A new practice this time for Day 1 - a few warm up laps without helmets on, with the instructors. I watch a lot of European lapping, and some tracks there do not require helmets. I get the safety factor, but it was definitely nice to feel the wind on my face a bit. I wish we could roll with windows up and no helmets more...



But we were helmeted again soon. It's all good. This was the second time at this track - both times were run the same direction - and I had some in-car instruction under my belt, so I was able to make some big personal improvements.





As CaneDVM and I were getting more comfortable, and had been out a few times, folks starting talking to us more - not that anyone was unfriendly in the least. But as our pace has increased, so has the number of attendees noticing that these old cars are being thrown around with abandon. CaneDVM was hampered by his M44 - with a million miles to boot, at least until that car is S50 swapped, but we were both earning enough point-bys that folks would come find us in the pits to talk shop.

We're still total amateurs but it was a nice measure of our progress so far It's a funny thing to have folks come ask you about the car and what is done to see why you were able to pass them in what looks like a very nondescript old grey boat.

My instructor this time out could not have been more different from last time. I received less instruction this time, more hootin' and hollerin', but it was good fun nonetheless and I still improved over the course of the day.



The car had no setup changes from last time out, but I'll repeat that the current setup (consisting primarily of camber plates and H&R springs on stock-replacement Bilsteins) is planted enough. I really did not feel like I needed more swaybar, at this track at least - I still have a Touring Nurburgring bar waiting to go on.



As if it need be said, the resident track photographer at Hallett is awesome. When we paid him for shots, he said "put a wheel in the air!" We laughed about it, but he was like "No, I'm serious - it makes my day."

Now CaneDVM's E36ti is an ongoing project, but built in the correct order - It's a gutless M44 with absolute top of the line MCS coil overs, big sway bars, AP Racing brakes, etc. He can probably lift an inside tire at a stop light with that setup. My long-travel Bilsteins, not so much!

However, without meaning to, I found a way to lift a tire in a blind crest at Turn 8 (called The Bad), after hearing an instructor mention that it's possible to take that corner without touching your brakes. This is more getting air than the traditional wheel lifting, but hey - it still counts and our track photographer was as good as his word, absolutely nailing a close-up shot LOL



Un-enhance... unfortunately I believe that passenger rear tire is still contacting the Earth


That corner, as soon as I learned to take it like that, had my instructor puckering audibly every time - I'm sure because he knew I was a noob, not from outright speed. On one braver corner entry, I did overshoot it slightly and dropped a front wheel off track for a millisecond, which then slammed back onto the curb at 70+ mph a millisecond later. Credit due to Apex, the wheel is still flawless.

Another good one in the books
We left after the Sunday morning sessions as usual, with a long drive ahead (for me particularly). No mechanical issues, just a great time and marked improvement for both of us. I actually had a session with the overall head instructor riding with me, due to a timing issue with my own instructor. He confirmed that I could be just as fast, but much smoother on the tires, so I really focused on that and started to get the hang of it. My Falkens still looked pretty decent after the weekend, even after the 85F 20min sessions pushing hard.

Once I was home, I swapped my Turbines with street tires back on - and sure enough, zero sign of a shimmy, at any speed. I ended up washing/scraping tons of tire marbles from the barrels of those Apex later, which might have caused the vibration. I will find out soon next time I remount - which I will do long enough before the next track event to fix any issues.

I now have a lot of life stuff preventing me from installing a host of great parts on the car, but that's a first world problem. Taking the car out to these events and enjoying the solidity of the platform really bolsters my confidence in and love of the car. My goal is to hit at least two HPDE weekends a year with this car, testing out more parts as we go along - and obviously moving up the ranks. More to come!

[danespann]

For a moment there, I thought you added coilovers. Forgot about the H&R and camber plates since the stock-height M System track day.
What kind of front camber were you able to pull out of this chassis with just the plates on stock-style struts?

[dannyzabolotny]

I’m sad to hear that CaneDVM is swapping an S50 into the TI, I love how it is with all the suspension and handling mods but with the stock M44. BMW 4 cylinders need some love too! Heck, BMW made a zesty 4 cylinder for racing E36’s back in the day.

(And for what it’s worth, a stock TI has a better power to weight ratio than my M50NV car)

Glad to hear your M5 did well at the track day! Always great to see E34’s surprising people.

[BleedsBlue]

For a moment there, I thought you added coilovers. Forgot about the H&R and camber plates since the stock-height M System track day.
What kind of front camber were you able to pull out of this chassis with just the plates on stock-style struts?

Sigh… I wish!

The race shop settled on -2.2 for this car. I’m pretty sure I was closer to -2.5 on my white car, but meh.

Even with future coil overs and the ability to run tons more camber, I’m not sure I would go more than -2.5 for a street car. Which is still what this is lol.

I’m sad to hear that CaneDVM is swapping an S50 into the TI, I love how it is with all the suspension and handling mods but with the stock M44. BMW 4 cylinders need some love too! Heck, BMW made a zesty 4 cylinder for racing E36’s back in the day.

(And for what it’s worth, a stock TI has a better power to weight ratio than my M50NV car)

Glad to hear your M5 did well at the track day! Always great to see E34’s surprising people.

Mannnnn, we went back and forth a lot before settling on the S50. An S42 was on the list, trust me. It comes down to horsepower to dollar, and this M44 having a million miles. We also considered an LS swap

Cant wait to see you guys descend on BW in December. Long live the E34!

[danespann]

Even with future coil overs and the ability to run tons more camber, I’m not sure I would go more than -2.5 for a street car. Which is still what this is lol.



Mannnnn, we went back and forth a lot before settling on the S50. An S42 was on the list, trust me. It comes down to horsepower to dollar, and this M44 having a million miles. We also considered an LS swap

Cant wait to see you guys descend on BW in December. Long live the E34!

2.5 isn't too bad, especially having sway bars. The wear at -3.5 isn't the worst with XL rated tires but all season sidewalls don't enjoy that.

I do love BMW 4 cylinders. If you were starting with an m42 early TI like mine, I'd say build the thing with one of the high compression heads those crazy guys in europe sell in stages. However, still interesting you chose an OBD1 engine for an m44 (and I assume OBD2) car.

And can't wait for Buttonwillow. We have a pretty good spread with no cars being too similar in approach at all.

[BleedsBlue]

2.5 isn't too bad, especially having sway bars. The wear at -3.5 isn't the worst with XL rated tires but all season sidewalls don't enjoy that.

I do love BMW 4 cylinders. If you were starting with an m42 early TI like mine, I'd say build the thing with one of the high compression heads those crazy guys in europe sell in stages. However, still interesting you chose an OBD1 engine for an m44 (and I assume OBD2) car.

And can't wait for Buttonwillow. We have a pretty good spread with no cars being too similar in approach at all.

I'm not even sure how possible this is, but I'd love a set of camber and caster plates that could be adjusted at a track day for a track setting, then dialed back to a street/highway setting when you're ready to leave. Obviously there would be some compromise on one or the other, but in my head it could work out nicely

In this case, "having sway bars" means having M5 sway bars, right? We're both on the same setup there.

TBH I haven't really been thrilled with BMW 4 cylinders. Same with the V8s. The Honda and Nissan 4 cylinders I've driven were a lot pokier. Granted I've never tried say, a 2.5 S14, but that's also an incredibly expensive proposition for what it is...

It goes without saying, but the community would LOVE some good coverage (photo/video/etc) of the Buttonwillow session. I'd also love to fly out and hang, but it'll be tough.

[circuit.heart]

I'm not even sure how possible this is, but I'd love a set of camber and caster plates that could be adjusted at a track day for a track setting, then dialed back to a street/highway setting when you're ready to leave. Obviously there would be some compromise on one or the other, but in my head it could work out nicely

Nope, it'd be fucked - our front suspension gains a lot of front toe with camber adjustment. IIRC from -2.9 to -4 camber I managed to go from 0 toe to 1/8" toe in, that's a lot. Handling effects aside, you would wear front tires much faster with that much toe.

Most McStrut front suspensions lose camber with steering input, so having more isn't a bad thing. Make sure the toe setting is zero and enjoy a few corners here and there - you'll get the outside to wear about the same rate as the inside. The Maxxis slicks I've been road-tripping with have been wearing pretty evenly except for the last 1" of the outside tread, which isn't touching the ground.

RE BMW 4 cylinders... no, put in a K24 lol.

[BleedsBlue]

Nope, it'd be fucked - our front suspension gains a lot of front toe with camber adjustment. IIRC from -2.9 to -4 camber I managed to go from 0 toe to 1/8" toe in, that's a lot. Handling effects aside, you would wear front tires much faster with that much toe.

Most McStrut front suspensions lose camber with steering input, so having more isn't a bad thing. Make sure the toe setting is zero and enjoy a few corners here and there - you'll get the outside to wear about the same rate as the inside. The Maxxis slicks I've been road-tripping with have been wearing pretty evenly except for the last 1" of the outside tread, which isn't touching the ground.

RE BMW 4 cylinders... no, put in a K24 lol.

That is a very good point regarding geometry. My wishful thinking was also not very deep, lol.

Glad to see you on the forums still!

[okmike540i]

If they have this at Hallett again next year give me a shout, doubt I will have the car sorted enough to drive but would love to drive out there and hang out. That is right down the road from me; if you stay in Tulsa I would be more than happy to show you guys around/grab a bite/beers and show Okie hospitality! My Dad used to help his coworker with formula fords back in the early 80's and have been going since I was a kid.

[CaneDVM]

Excellent updates, Brent! Hopefully we'll both be on track in E34 M5s again soon...

I’m sad to hear that CaneDVM is swapping an S50 into the TI, I love how it is with all the suspension and handling mods but with the stock M44. BMW 4 cylinders need some love too! Heck, BMW made a zesty 4 cylinder for racing E36’s back in the day.

(And for what it’s worth, a stock TI has a better power to weight ratio than my M50NV car)

Glad to hear your M5 did well at the track day! Always great to see E34’s surprising people.

2.5 isn't too bad, especially having sway bars. The wear at -3.5 isn't the worst with XL rated tires but all season sidewalls don't enjoy that.

I do love BMW 4 cylinders. If you were starting with an m42 early TI like mine, I'd say build the thing with one of the high compression heads those crazy guys in europe sell in stages. However, still interesting you chose an OBD1 engine for an m44 (and I assume OBD2) car.

And can't wait for Buttonwillow. We have a pretty good spread with no cars being too similar in approach at all.

Dane/Danny, I loved wringing the piss out of the M44, it just had absolutely no ability to overtake in point-by situations on the short straights of Hallett, lest the point-giver lifted substantially (most of whom didn't, which is another story, but still). It's a '98, so OBD2. I'm swapping in a lightly warmed over euro S50B32, so it should have some balls. Can't relinquish my ITB obsession. ��

[BleedsBlue]

If they have this at Hallett again next year give me a shout, doubt I will have the car sorted enough to drive but would love to drive out there and hang out. That is right down the road from me; if you stay in Tulsa I would be more than happy to show you guys around/grab a bite/beers and show Okie hospitality! My Dad used to help his coworker with formula fords back in the early 80's and have been going since I was a kid.

Oh they will for sure, the event is getting more popular apparently (always a good thing with track events). We'll let you know, and that's super cool - we love the track!

Excellent updates, Brent! Hopefully we'll both be on track in E34 M5s again soon...

Someday...soon!

Apparently this is an HPDE thread now
Joking aside, the past year has been busy and distracting. What few roadtrips I've taken have also required larger vehicles, so the HPDEs (and trips to and from) have been most of my M5 time - plus local shakedowns on twisty roads. It's not a bad thing, but this car is a lot more refined and better at daily duties than my B36 ever was, so it's a bit ironic.

Following last fall's BMWCCA HPDE, wherein the car performed flawlessly, I didn't want to change too much - still being on the beginning of the driver education curve. However, the eBay rear calipers I sourced used for this car in 2019 (which for some reason had unvented rear rotors installed) continued causing problems. I mention eBay only as the source, and am not blaming general parts sourced from the website - there is lots of good stuff there.

First, back in winter 2019, when I went to install them, the driver side caliper bleed screw was mangled beyond recognition. I was in a hurry and forced to work outside in a Colorado cold snap, so I ended up having to go steal the driver caliper off of my wrecked B36 in the snow-filled dirt/mud lot of a friend. I was able to bleed the calipers without issue at that point, but coming up on last summer (2021), the remaining eBay rear caliper (passenger side) refused to open its bleed nipple for the race shop the M5 was at for a few jobs.

Later, once home, I tried a few tricks but the bleed screw is seized (and now rounded). With just a few track days in between the 2019 initial bleed and the 2021 track "season", I was not too worried. But this time going into 2022, I was ready to flush all x4 again. I'm not one to spend time fixing what was a $50, non-ATE knock-off casting, particularly when it comes to the joy of removing a bleed screw... especially when I had 93FIM5's 328mm rear brake setup in my garage. The only thing missing were the requisite 328mm rear dust shields, but (for now) my rear wheel bearings and the rest are holding up, so it was trimmy-trim time to hang those larger rotors for the larger calipers.

I call this one "mekanik"...


As might be guessed, I broke out the angle grinder pretty quickly - not caring about a perfect trim and being short on time. The grinder took the lips off very quickly, and I was in business. A careful flush (of course yielding bubbles from the rear calipers, and dirty fluid from all) with the Motive power bleeder later, I was ready to test fit some new-to-me wheels.

I grabbed these from Bimmerforums actually, after chatting with the very helpful seller at length. Going in, I knew they had compromised inner barrel clearance, and no chance of fitting up front with the F30-based 340mm brakes. But, since they were square 10s, I couldn't fit them up front currently either way.


The Pagid pads and MSI "nascar nut" yellow matches nicely

RKs (specifically the insanely-light RK I) have been a dream wheel of mine forever. I always dreamt of finding square 10Js, and here this guy was (the P.O.) racing on a set for a decade like they were no big deal The set is original finish, but well-used. Bend-free, and as light as advertised (near 2lbs lighter per wheel than matching Apex ARC-8)...and as inner barrel compromised as advertised. The rears are close enough to the caliper that I'll need to check clearance before running this setup on track.

The braking setup was now as close to a late '94+ M5 as possible, with the larger rear rotors and 42mm rear single piston calipers. I completed a shakedown on a good road near me and could immediately tell that the car had more rear bias, enough to really level out the previous bit of nose-diving. More on this later.

I expected the first track use of this combo (with the same 17x9 ARC-8s up front, btw) to be the first weekend in January for a one-day HPDE (non-BMWCCA, but a CCA-friendly organizer), but weather was not on our side. Being MSR Cresson, I linked up with CaneDVM for dinner the night before and an expected cold AND rainy track day - our first. Staggered Turbines and Conti ExtremeContacts it was to be (not a biggie). For Mr. Cane, it was another exercise in momentum/frustration with the fully-suspension-kitted-but-stock-power E36ti. The S50B32 recently arrived, at least!


Apex buddies this time, we were not

I'd been looking forward to a wet track day since I started HPDE, and it wasn't that rainy. Temps hovered just under 50F and while the track was wet from the previous cold and wet night, precipitation day-of amounted to light misting rain more than any downpour. The fog wasn't too bad in the morning, so our run groups got started without a hitch. The slightly later start due to the lateness of the sunrise was appreciated. It's also admittedly nice when your prep consists of emptying the trunk, buckling in your harness, slapping on your numbers - and of course tire pressures and lug torque.


With this group, finally able to rock the magnetic autocross numbers I bought in 2014 and used on my old 911

CaneDVM and I are solo-rated now, but this run group had a few instructors volunteering for our group. I took two different instructors up on an offer to ride with me (one each), since this was an HPDE after-all. The first time out, per the instructor, I basically ran the dry line. Even with the very adverse weather-friendly Continentals, it was a slip and slide, causing me to lose the rear end on the slowest corner (more like the middle of a slalom) of the track, apparently the #1 spin spot. I put the front two off and ate a cone lol, which I then deposited halfway around the track - but no harm done.

The second time out, a different instructor coached me on the wet line, displacing the apex everywhere - and it was super grippy on the marbles. Who knew! (Everyone who's been on the track in the wet, apparently). From there, I pushed more and more - no more spins, but probably close to two dozen big moments at a variety of speeds. As can be expected, everything is amplified in those low-grip situations, so if you're ham-handed (or -footed) and disrupt the car, you're going to hear about it a lot quicker and more severely than in the dry.

We earned an extended lunch break as we went into a true fog-out, but the organizers responded well and we only lost one out of our 6 sessions. It was dense!


There's a racetrack out there, promise...

Especially once you got used to it, the wet track felt more forgiving (and smoother) and I certainly learned a lot, as is always promised with a wet HPDE. As usual, we had the oldest (and likely cheapest) cars in our run group, which might have played a part in the fact that neither CaneDVM or I needed to point anyone by all day. I think there were 3x C8 Corvettes in our group, but none could put anywhere near their actual power down. For those that had it (which was most), apparently traction control dominated the experience.

I can't really comment on the new brake balance, except that it worked fine - I'll be able to comment more on this change after a dry HPDE, I think. Onto the Turbski photo dump, courtesy of Lightspeed Images!


What's with all the steering lock? DIY traction control


The only time you'll find me on the marbles, on purpose





After the forced fog-out break, everyone had to turn lights on


Another great day in the books

[a777fan]

Lookin great swingin round the track.

[circuit.heart]

I was hoping you wouldn't track on the RK's and the pictures are a sigh of relief. Lightweight BBS's are jello barrels, if Danny can bend all four Apexes in one day, the RK's don't stand a chance either.