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Thread: Miata or z3?

  1. #1
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    Miata or z3?

    Please only answer if you have owned both cars and have experience with them both.

    I'm wanting to get a roadster as I have never owned one, and I love both the z3 and miata (probably NA or NB). I just want a fun car to toy around with on the weekends. I own and work on an e36 328i so I'm already quite familiar with the e36 platform as far as the mechanical goes. The main reason I'm leaning towards a miata is simply because the aftermarket is huge for them. I'm looking at spending 3-5k and just want something fun and not too difficult to maintain. That being said I don't consider an e36 super difficult to maintain. I don't think I'll be doing anything other than cruising and possibly AutoX in the future.

  2. #2
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    They are very different cars. The Miata is small, cramped, buzzy, and very very nimble. The Z3 is roomier, more refined, and a bit more lumbering.. So decide. Do you want to cruise around, or autocross? While both can be used for either, each excels at different things. Comparison based on 10AE NB vs M Roadster and M coupe. Plus many customer cars, but those don't get driven 10/10.


    /.randy

  3. #3
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    Hello, I’ve owned both. Just sold my NB for a 98M. I was in your situation a few years back as far as price. I got an NB for like 4K that I just drive for fun. After a few years, and earning a little more money I wanted “more”.

    So it got to the point that I was going to turbo it but I didn’t want to put money in I wouldn’t “see” back. So then I decided to track down a mazdaspeed Miata but they were very rare, also the S2000 were out of my range. So over the months I would look online and one day someone in my neighborhood was selling the 98 M and I jumped on it and the Miata was sold in 20 hours.

    Anyways....I think In your current range I would try to get a nice rust free Miata as I personally would rather have that versus any non M z3. If it were an M vs Miata that be no question. I simply think your money will go further in the Miata.

    I started to learn to wrench on the Miata and now took it a level up with the Z. But this is irrelevant since you’re already wrenching on the e36. I just didn’t grow up in a wrench on cars family.

    BIGGEST thing I’ll point out is, to me, the Miata felt more butt dragging, go kart. The M feels more like a car but still a small n sporty one. Common sense will tell you parts will be cheaper on the Miata. And yes the aftermarket is just insane for them. I think If you wanted to “mod” the Miata is the way.

    Anyways flame suit is on...any questions just ask.

  4. #4
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    Between a Miata and 4 Cylinder Z3, I think I'd go Miata. 6 cylinder Z3, unless Miata is a MazdaSpeed or NC+ is my choice.

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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by rf900rkw View Post
    They are very different cars. The Miata is small, cramped, buzzy, and very very nimble. The Z3 is roomier, more refined, and a bit more lumbering.. So decide. Do you want to cruise around, or autocross? While both can be used for either, each excels at different things. Comparison based on 10AE NB vs M Roadster and M coupe. Plus many customer cars, but those don't get driven 10/10.

    Great, that's more or less what I wanted to know. I have the 328i I can autocross as well, so I will be looking for something that is more fun to cruise in. Like, the kind of fun you can take out to redline and not be breaking the speed limit but still have a blast with.

    Quote Originally Posted by ZedsDead87 View Post
    BIGGEST thing I’ll point out is, to me, the Miata felt more butt dragging, go kart. The M feels more like a car but still a small n sporty one. Common sense will tell you parts will be cheaper on the Miata. And yes the aftermarket is just insane for them. I think If you wanted to “mod” the Miata is the way.


    Anyways flame suit is on...any questions just ask.

    I think maybe the best way to describe what I want is definitely 'go-kart' feeling. But, I already have an e46 M3 so I may very well feel the stock miata won't cut it. If I had to spend M money again it would probably be on a coupe or sedan and not a Z... at least not for the moment.
    Last edited by Aeko; 01-08-2020 at 12:34 PM.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeko View Post
    Great, that's more or less what I wanted to know. I have the 328i I can autocross as well, so I will be looking for something that is more fun to cruise in. Like, the kind of fun you can take out to redline and not be breaking the speed limit but still have a blast with.




    I think maybe the best way to describe what I want is definitely 'go-kart' feeling. But, I already have an e46 M3 so I may very well feel the stock miata won't cut it. If I had to spend M money again it would probably be on a coupe or sedan and not a Z... at least not for the moment.

    Ok here’s a better way to put it since you got an M already. The Miata is going to be the most go kart thing you can buy that’s not an Ariel atom or whatever. But out of everything listed it’s going to be the slowest. It’s probably going to be slower that your e36. Like there was times I’d be like WTF but then take a turn and be like whoaa. It’s a car that gives you both extremes. Super go kart toy. And super slow Prius style. But I can’t picture a 4 cylinder Z being any better. Probably just as slow and you’ll lose the go kart confidence. Let us know how you make out.

  7. #7
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    My brother has a Miata, lots of mainly cosmetic mods. I've not owned one but driven his. I just don't like the car. It's bumpy and noisy and cramped (yes, compared to a Z3!) I replaced my Z3 with a Z3M, so power is more important to me. Still, the 2.8 Z3 seems like a much better car than the Miata to me. It's still very small and nimble, but a better cruiser. My brother disagrees. He could afford almost any sports car he wants, but just loves his Miata. One last thought: my wife has an E36 325i. It's convenient to have our 2 cars so similar. Knowledge of one helps with the other one, and many parts are common. ..... Just drive both and see which one you like more.

  8. #8
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    I have owned 3 Miatas and now own a Z3 M roadster and a Z4.

    This is a very hard question to answer. I really enjoyed them all.

    The Miata is very well made and very easy to work on. It is very fun to drive albeit a bit under powered.

    I was at Costco last month and saw a NB Miata. I forgot how small they are.

    If you have any specific questions I would be happy to answer them.

  9. #9
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    2000 Z3M for the win. I paid 10k even for mine. I have swapped the system, swapped out the console lights, and other then that I have no plans. Every Miata (3) left me wanting more every single time. Don't get me wrong, if you "just" want to autocross one, a Miata NC will be what you want. However for a reasonable, all around great driver, the BMW wins hands down. The torque alone is reason enough for me. Punch the M on the highway and you are gone, punch the Miata and get ready for mediocre non greatness. Even when I had a 300 HP, 2013 Miata NC, I am a believer the BMW would still drop it on the highway and absolutely has more top speed. Crazy I know. I dropped 17k on that car and then another 10k in mods and my supercharger kit was half price. Don't get me wrong they are dead reliable and fun to drive stock, but all stock just didn't do it for me. Plus the BMW is just exotic looking in my eyes. Oh and anyone that says Miatas are cramped has never drove a NC, they are plenty roomy inside and super comfortable. Until I do the seat mod in the Z3 with the front tilt I would say even more comfy than the Z, and two real cup holders.





    Last edited by kingjason2006; 01-08-2020 at 03:01 PM.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZedsDead87 View Post
    Ok here’s a better way to put it since you got an M already. The Miata is going to be the most go kart thing you can buy that’s not an Ariel atom or whatever. But out of everything listed it’s going to be the slowest. It’s probably going to be slower that your e36. Like there was times I’d be like WTF but then take a turn and be like whoaa. It’s a car that gives you both extremes. Super go kart toy. And super slow Prius style. But I can’t picture a 4 cylinder Z being any better. Probably just as slow and you’ll lose the go kart confidence. Let us know how you make out.
    I had a NB Miata and a M roadster at the same time. The Miata was a easier car for me to drive. It was not as fast as the M but because it had some pep and a short throw shifter it never really felt slow. I enjoyed both cars. They both had their own pluses.

  11. #11
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    At this point I will just need to test drive them I suppose. Thanks for the insight! I'll come back if I have any other questions. My only other question for the moment is, are the Z3Ms set up with a much sportier suspension than the regular Z, like the other e36 Ms w/r/t 3ers?

    Since this will probably be street car primarily, ride quality and noise will probably be a major deciding factor.
    Last edited by Aeko; 01-08-2020 at 02:58 PM.

  12. #12
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    The BMW Z's are actually as quiet inside as the hard top Miata. Plus if you swap the exhaust on the hardtop it will induce drone into the cabin.

  13. #13
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    [QUOTE=Aeko;30392579]At this point I will just need to test drive them I suppose. Thanks for the insight! I'll come back if I have any other questions. My only other question for the moment is, are the Z3Ms set up with a much sportier suspension than the regular Z, like the other e36 Ms w/r/t 3ers?

    The Z3M is whole different level than the Z3. More power, better suspension, better wheels, better seats, ... what else? Not much more money considering all you get.

  14. #14
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    KingJason and Kram, very well put. I get tempted every time I see an ND RF but I know it’s never going to have that torque and I’ll be left wanting more

  15. #15
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    Plus the ND standard transmissions are made out of glass apparently and even after years and years of tuning the NC, people are still blowing them up with forced induction. Mine melted the cats on the first run. After 40 something tuninig runs the tuning was still missing something on top end runs. I like reliable and rotrex was supposed to be the answer. Me and the others did so much work for group A trying to get those kits right we should have been deamed testers.

    It was always....

    More power, how wide a tire can I cram, what suspension, it needs some cosmetics, the stereo needs a little upgrade, and on and on. The BMW checked all of the important boxes. The torque really is amazing in this car. Only sad I didn't save up a little more for a 01-02, but this one is fast enough to get you in trouble easy.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZedsDead87 View Post
    KingJason and Kram, very well put. I get tempted every time I see an ND RF but I know it’s never going to have that torque and I’ll be left wanting more
    I do not think you can make a bad choice here. Best choice would be to get both. My Miata used to be my daily driver. Now my Z3M is my daily driver. Obviously the BMW will have more prestige in some people's eyes. I think the Miata is the most underrated car in the world. In fact I considered a 2018 but the tranny tunnel made the passenger seat footing very awkward. I really enjoyed my NB and my NA's. While I really like my Z3M and my Z4 I would not mind having another NB as a grocery getter. I did test drive the 2018 and it was a fairly fast car.

  17. #17
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    This being a BMW forum my opinion will not be popular one. I started out owning an NA Miata for 8 years before moving to an NC. After a 5 years with the NC, I was looking for something more powerful and bought an 02 Z3M. I test drove a Z3M with the S52 engine and the power difference between the Miata and Z3M was not that great. Yes, a NC Miata is only pushing 160HP while an early model Z3M is at 240HP, the power to weight ratios are close. The power of the S54 Z3M is incredible, but it lacked the go cart feel of the Miata. I am not really interested in how fast I can get from 0 to 60, but being able to take a street corner without really slowing down is were it is at for me. I found myself driving the Miata more and the Z3M less. When my NC Miata was totaled, I bought an ND Miata. The answer to your question is a difficult one that can really only be answered by driving both. For me, the Miata brings me more thrills on my daily drive than the Z3M does. Not that the Z3M is a bad car, I still own it. It's just a different animal than the Miata.

  18. #18
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    So here's my experience. I've never owned or liked verts at all. It just so happened that I had an opportunity to drive on the Nurburgring in June and the best bang for the buck happened to be an NB Miata. Needless to say, I fell in love with it because it truly felt like an extension of me as I was throwing it around the ring. It seemed almost effortless. The only problem was that it was severely under powered and the long winding sections felt a bit boring. The overall experience was great though. It totally changed my opinion of small convertibles, so I decided to sell my BRZ and get one instead. When I got back to the states, I started looking for a decent example and came across a great deal on my current M Roadster. Although I have not driven it on the track yet, I feel that it's a tamer version of a Miata that is also fun to drive on the street. For a track weapon, I would probably get a Miata and do something to increase the power, but for dual duty (street/track), I would pick the Roady. One thing to note is that the roads here are terrible and Z3M is a lot more pleasant to drive over bumps.
    Check out my M Roadster projects and DIYs:
    Cooling system part 1: https://youtu.be/ERqztIL1DPw
    Cooling system part 2: https://youtu.be/-DnclDkn2hI
    Power convertible top: https://youtu.be/KLYNqkCBh_M
    Head unit removal: https://youtu.be/LKe9fPKrAqE

  19. #19
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    Miata or z3?

    There is a racing Group dedicated to Miatas. Here in northwest they are typically NAs.
    Bang for the buck Miata. Want torque, go BMW 2.8L or better, but be prepared to dump cash into rear subframe and floor of trunk, especially if you are going to drive it like you stole it.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Last edited by bluptgm3; 01-09-2020 at 07:33 PM.

  20. #20
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    I've owned miatas,even the "Speed" turbo, if you're going to seriously autocross, they are the answer, I AX in SSM class, with my Z Coupe, and have never beaten an aftermarket turbo Miata in my class.I'm thinking the turbo torque fixes all the previous weak engine stories, my coupe has the 04 ZHP motor/6 speed in it..

  21. #21
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    Even though they are both 2 seat convertibles its an apples and oranges situation. I personally enjoyed my 3 Miatas but I also enjoy my Z3M and Z4 now. There is no right answer. I love Philly Cheese Steaks. I also love Chicken Parm. I would rather have both then have to choose. Some days I prefer my Z3M. Some days I prefer my Z4. Some days I preferred my Miata.

  22. #22
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    Having owned several Miatas over the years simultaneously with the Z3s, they are both fun cars but the Z3 is DRAMATICALLY easier and cheaper to maintain.

    Even though its a BMW, the Z3 is a lot easier/cheaper to own and properly maintain.

    What? Really? You can't be serious? Its a Mazda!?!

    While the Miata has 2 less spark plugs and tires are much smaller so that is cheaper, every other part was always comparatively more expensive and harder to source than the corresponding Z3 parts. Probably due the the giant DIY BMW crowd and websites that cater to them, but yeah, I know it seems counter intuitive.

    The NA and the NB are mechanically the exact same care with updated trim and body panels, so maintenance is the same and parts are the same. Even the interiors are interchangeable, the only part thats 100% new is the stampings and outer skin. The NB adds a lot of weight over the NA due to all this cosmetic bolt ons with no changes to the underlying chassis or mechanicals.

    The Z3 and Miata's have about the same cooling system maintenance intervals, and the work is dramatically more difficult on the Miata vs the Z3, mostly because Miatas have a timing belt that has to be changed and ancient engine and electronics from a kia/ford something or other from a decade before the miata came out. Plus the Miata needs MORE maintenance parts than the Z3.

    You know how easy changing your filter is on the 328, well the Miata is a big mess every time. I even had a miata remote mount oil filter kit that I tried to use but it was a big mess and always leaked at the block so I tossed it.

    Miatas have to be timed with an old school timing light, I'm not kidding. You set the ecu into timing mode with a paperclip, then fire up the timing light and flash away at the crank until it gets timed correctly. You turn the exhaust crank sensor till your happy then tighten it down. This is for the first and second gen Miatas. I didn't have a third gen, but did rent one and it was nice to drive but didn't really go for the styling. My mother has one now with the PHRT, its extra complication for complications sake.

    Often the belts were done wrong, and that means incorrect timing, which means poor power and bad response. Dealerships don't have a clue how to do this anymore, and they screwed up both my car and my mother's cars, as well as several other people. You get that belt one tooth off and it runs like shit till the next service. Its easy to do incorrectly. I had worked up a system with monkey wrenches and clamps to keep shit in place so it would get messed up, then I had to count the teeth. Its a HUGE PITA, assuming you didn't give up already on the crank/cam pulleys. This stuff doesn't need to be messed with on the BMW because it has a chain and better made components. You can still do it, but its not a regular service thing.

    You have to change the water pump on a miata just like the Z3, it takes longer, it costs MORE (if you aren't getting the stewart lifetime BMW pump) and its harder to get to things under the hood. That crank pulley is a BITCH to get off EVERY SINGLE TIME. Eventually you just strap the breaker bar to the sway bar on the miata and crank the fucking engine to loosen it. I'm serious. You can't get an impact gun in there.

    Belts, hoses, etc are all a little more money in my personal experience for the same quality stuff.

    My friend has the new Miata with the targa top and its fun but kinda underpowered to drive compared to the M Coupes, but its also brand new and all cars today suck when it comes to driving, but its also 4x the cost of a 2000 Z3 3.0 and a touch less performance, practicality, and styling. Rationally, its new and has a warranty so if you don't like to wrench then get a new miata.

    If you want to go racing, it all depends on the class you want to compete in. A stripped out beater miata is great for track days because it can look like a complete piece of shit and you don't care if you put it into a wall. However, if you actually wanted to win with a miata you're going to easily get to 6 figures for a car, team, and travel to races for a year, not to mention having a job that lets you be away that often. Those spec miata guys don't play around. Granted that's less than a quarter of the Porsche gt3 cup guys spend in a year, so its relatively cheap. If you are just looking at a few track autocross events then you will have just as much if not more fun in the Z3 as long as you don't wreck it.

    I am not a convertible fan, I am pretty open with that one, BUT you can rip the convertible top off the miata and toss it in a dumpster like I did. I put on a hard top and never took it off again. Also, had room in the rear well to put a 10" sub and 2x 5.25 speakers so I had some great tunes and didn't have to deal with those shitty headrest speakers.

    The Miata convertible top is not the same quality as the Z3 top. Over time, it de-laminates and flaps a lot in the wind . Then it starts leaking around the windows. I had this happen on THREE different Miatas. No good fix, no good forum to discuss it with either. The only upside was I replaced the shitty top with a new top with a glass rear window, which you can't get on the Z3.

    The Z3 top never had any issues on the two convertibles I owned. The plus of having it power closed is a lot easier on your shoulder, the only downside was the window could get foggy or crease over time. I have a brand new BMW factory Z3 rear window under the bed in my guest room. It literally zips in and out just like the Miata window, but it actually a bit easier to install.

    It was $200 from the stealership, no clue what it costs now.

    Because you have a 328, I would steer you to find an early 97-98 2.8 with the same engine. They are the ONLY 2.8s with the all aluminum M52 block in the US, so the engine is even lighter than the miata. I would steer clear of the M52TU because its a hodge-podge of M52 block and M54 head, kinda, and there is NO aftermarket for it. Plus the early Z3s are cheaper than the facelift models and the only real difference is the center console buttons are smaller.

    The only reason I wouldn't recommend an M is because the cost would be 3-5 times the cost for what is essentially the same car and the Z3 will probably be in better condition. I daily drive the first M Coupe ever made and it has 220k+ miles on it and its still going strong with only basic maintenance and tires.

    I got a spare miata engine if you want one, still have the drivetrain from my last miata, its making its way into a lo-cost roadster at some point in the FAR DISTANT FUTURE. The miata transmissions aren't as solid as the ZF 5 speed in the Z3, and while the rear suspension is arguably better geometry on the miata, I didn't see any real world benefits.

    The reality is that everything new that can go wrong on the Z3 interior you can fix with a quick search of these forums and at most a couple hours in the garage. The rest is the same as your current car and you don't have to learn anything new there. They are both E36s after all.

    Having torque is something you will miss if you go back to a 4 cylinder Miata, its 205 ft lbs vs 100 ft lbs. I guarantee you can feel that, and after driving your 328 all you will be thinking about is adding a turbo every time you drive the Miata. While the NA is around 2300 if you have no power accessories, the NB creeps well up to the 2500 lbs range and the Z3 starts at 2700 lbs with the aluminum block, so the horsepower difference isn't nearly as relevant as the dearth of torque.

    Don't get me wrong, I loved my Miatas. They were good to me at the time, and I would probably still have it had the ex wife not totaled it. In hindsight, I can say that I have gotten a lot more enjoyment out of driving a beater Z3 than a beater Miata and I can't really think of a time when tinkering on the Z3 was anywhere near the PITA that the Miata was.

    Last edited by mpire; 01-09-2020 at 11:57 AM.
    White is Right, Steel Grey is OK, but Estoril is the only color that truly matters.

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  23. #23
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    Miata NB has a bigger engine and was faster than NA in my opinion.

  24. #24
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    We've had a Silver NB Miata in the family before. I've never really liked the motor in any Miata I've driven, unless you count the newest Fiat Abarth 124 Spyder as a Miata. I absolutely love the inline 6s the Z3s come with -- in any variant.


    I like how 3 of the 4 generations of Miatas look. But I think the Z3 looks better.The Miata handles better, without question. But the Z3 still is a fun car, and it's better for long trips and everyday use.


    You can tinker nearly an equal amount on both cars, thanks to the Z3 sharing so many bits from various generations of 3 Series. And the BMW parts tend to be of better quality. But there is more "bolt-on" support for the Miatas.


    The Miata has an entire spec series, which is excellent if you are interested in climbing the racing ladder. The Z3 is pretty awkwardly classed in the SCCA, and is at a disadvantage pretty everywhere in the rulebook. I've always been beaten by a Miata in the same Autocross class (STR), but I'm fine with that. I don't own a Z3 because I wanted to win trophies.


    Having said all that, there's no right answer to this one except which one will make *you* happier. All cars are compromises -- it's just a matter of finding which things you are willing to compromise on and which things aren't.
    Last edited by Schreier; 01-09-2020 at 04:34 PM.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schreier View Post
    (snip)The Z3 is pretty awkwardly classed in the SCCA, and is at a disadvantage pretty everywhere in the rulebook. (snip)
    May be true in autocross, but apparently not in road racing. I watched the Runoffs on TV, and in I believe F Production there were no less than 3 Z3 Roadsters, and one of them was on the pole! Surprised the hell out of me!

    Marty

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