Shout out to NASA racers for some information

[Franky goes]

I'm looking at NASA racing and would like to see the race results from past events to gauge the fields in my intended class (STU4 / GTS2).
Can someone direct me to the right place ?

Thanks.

[Pat533i]

There’s not many st4 cars in the northeast, sometimes some tt4 cars you can base times against. Usually about 5 gts2 at race weekends. You can find all times on speed hive below. Select the event then click “by class” to organize lap times.


https://speedhive.mylaps.com/#_ga=2.250523652.385611325.1578453648-1081679635.1517962768&_gac=1.20872522.1578453648.C j0KCQiA9dDwBRC9ARIsABbedBNwWtdV0dwUN-7sX6Yj9p291VejPGRpi1cZ1ovBrNBay-Xcd0S9PqoaAi6vEALw_wcB

[hoki06]

NASA Mid Atlantic results
2013-2019: http://timingscoring.drivenasa.com/N...lantic_Region/

NASA Northeast results
2019: http://timingscoring.drivenasa.com/N...ial%20Results/
2010-2018: http://timingscoring.drivenasa.com/N...ved%20Results/

[Franky goes]

Thanks,
This is exactly what I was looking for.
STU4 are indeed rare but since this is to try the group I will stay close to my BMW IS class and that is STU4. I basically need to add 15 pounds of ballast and that is it. Perfect crossover.
If I decide too move to Nasa full time I can look at GT2 but the balance of power in that class means I have to remove 300 lbs or add 200 lbs of ballst. Looks like the M3 E36 in stock falls between 2 GTS classes, unless I have misinterpreted the calculation...
Thanks

[joenationwide]

Thanks,
This is exactly what I was looking for.
STU4 are indeed rare but since this is to try the group I will stay close to my BMW IS class and that is STU4. I basically need to add 15 pounds of lest and that is it. Perfect crossover.
If I decide too move to Nasa full time I can look at GT2 but the balance of power in that class means I have to remove 300 lbs or add 200 lbs of lest. Looks like the M3 E36 in stock falls between 2 GTS classes, u
unless I have misinterpreted the calculation...
Thanks

The rules for NASA GTS2 are very simple, basically the only rule is power to weight.
In 2020, we get a bump from 14:1 to 13.5:1.

This means now for every 13.5lbs you get 1whp.
So if your car weighs 3000lbs, you can make 222.2whp.
or...
2800lbs = 207.4whp
2900lbs = 214.8whp
3000lbs = 222.2whp
3100lbs = 229.6whp
3200lbs = 237.0whp

We use a simple throttle body restrictor plate to alter our horsepower output.
You can get them from bimmerworld. They sell a pack that comes with 5 different sizes.
No ECU tuning is required.

Once you get your car dynoed then just add weight to meet the spec.

ST4 is very similar, but has a few other restrictions. But bottom line no one runs ST4 yet in MA or NE region, we all run GTS2.
In Mid Atlantic we have GTS2 fields between 5-10 at each event.
GTS2 is a lot of fun, is very competitive, and there's always someone to race.

[Franky goes]

Thanks for the explanation Joenationwide.
Nasa's calculator is still using 14:1 but I understand the numbers you gave me are for the new 13.5:1 ratio ?

To be competitive in I-Sport I have the 3' race exhaust from Bimmerworld. With the tune this bumps WHP to approximately 245 max whp at 6,500 RPM. I'm at 2,970 lbs (Minimum weight for IS). That would mean about 250 lbs of ballast. Not an option...

The alternative would be to remove the tune and reinstall the OEM muffler with cats. That can be done in a couple of hours and brings the maximum whp down to around 215 and adds 60 lbs to the car. So 215 whp for 3030 lbs. That makes me overweight by 130 lbs...

I guess I have to play with those parameters to find the sweet spot between my actual setup and a street setup.

1. Removing the tune only : 230 whp for 2970 lbs means 130 lbs of ballast to 3,100 lbs
2. Removing the tune but install the mid section of the race exhaust with the catalytic converter (I swap it to drive to the track) : I guess the cat (Street) robs approximately 7 whp so : 223 whp for 2,970 lbs means 30 llbs of ballast. That makes sense if my assumptions are correct.

Would Epic, who sold me the tune, have a custom tune for a race muffler that caps HP in the 220 whp range ? Kind of an oxymoron but more convenient than swapping throttle body plates...

I have never dynoed my car. This is a brand new world for me. Any help is appreciated.

I'm trying to make the PIRC race this summer. Unfortunately BMWCR is not going this year and it is one of my favorite track.

Thanks

[lowside67]

It's worth noting that NASA is not power-to-weight on MAX hp, but rather max hp & the next 7 highest points averaged.

Here is a direct link to the dyno plot for Andre's S54-E36 which won both TT4 and ST4 at 2019 nationals:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1qUf...ew?usp=sharing

Note the aggressive de-tune... he is reporting "240whp" but has that from 5500rpm to 8250rpm and actually has even more torque before that. I've run some pretty extensive thrust chart comparisons and it is extremely clear how big of a gain that gives him in the 4000-6500rpm space which is actually used a lot.

TT4 at least on a national level is becoming very well developed and these cars are very fast.

Just to make sure you have all the info before committing to a class...

-Mark

[Pat533i]

Here is a direct link to the dyno plot for Andre's S54-E36 which won both TT4 and ST4 at 2019 nationals:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1qUf...ew?usp=sharing

Note the aggressive de-tune... he is reporting "240whp" but has that from 5500rpm to 8250rpm and actually has even more torque before that. I've run some pretty extensive thrust chart comparisons and it is extremely clear how big of a gain that gives him in the 4000-6500rpm space which is actually used a lot.

TT4 at least on a national level is becoming very well developed and these cars are very fast.

Just to make sure you have all the info before committing to a class...

-Mark

Wasilewski would've smoked him if his car held together. So don't count out the ol s50/52 so quick. But ya a detuned s54 is def a big advantage in those classes. They're now legal in gts2 now also.


And franky goes, I would find a restrictor plate that gives you the numbers you need (can probly just ask another gts guy what size they run) Restrictor plate will give you a better hp/tq curve in the upper rpms. Way better than un-modding you car. Also takes about 5 minutes to take in and out as oppose to swapping a exhaust system.

[Franky goes]

Thanks for the insight. Sounds like the restrictor plates make sense.

I know GTS is an average HP so I'm using charts I find online and data from my data acquisition to figure out the curves I should use. I'm trying to eyeball it before I show up to the Dyno place so I don't have to dyno 3 times... Until I do, my figures of 215 stock and 245 tuned could turn out to be way off.

I answered my own question regarding the GTS calculator. It is still at 14:1 so this complicates my eyeballing further... Unless I'm looking in the wrong place. This is the calculator I'm using: https://gts.nasaseries.com/gts-class-calculator/

Thanks for the help.
Much appreciated

[lowside67]

Wasilewski would've smoked him if his car held together. So don't count out the ol s50/52 so quick. But ya a detuned s54 is def a big advantage in those classes. They're now legal in gts2 now also.

And franky goes, I would find a restrictor plate that gives you the numbers you need (can probly just ask another gts guy what size they run) Restrictor plate will give you a better hp/tq curve in the upper rpms. Way better than un-modding you car. Also takes about 5 minutes to take in and out as oppose to swapping a exhaust system.

Out of curiosity, what makes you think that Wasilewski would have beat him? I looked up his dyno - quite amazed that power level is an S52, 256whp with what looks like a restrictor or detune? That must be one hell of a stout motor build...

-Mark

[Pat533i]

He was leading the race before his car had problems (from starting last)

https://youtu.be/_yZSqSxTdu0

those are easy numbers to get with full bolt ons and a real dyno tune. My s50 makes 265whp with cams too.