I just picked up a simple vacuum gauge and I am seeing a steady 15 in/hg at idle. It goes up into the low 20's as I raise the revs. Would this be considered normal for an M60 engine with 260k miles on it? I am measuring at the small brass nipple just below the throttle body on the front of the manifold.
Last edited by LysanderSpooner; 12-20-2019 at 08:49 PM.
I have wrenched on vehicles with:
1 cylinder
2 cylinders
3 cylinders
4 cylinders
5 cylinders
6 cylinders
7 spoke wheels
8 cylinders
difficult to find, we already discussed that back in 2009, here is the thread, click thru all posts http://www.bimmerboard.com/forums/posts/650403 I copied from there this, good, because the link is NLA:
1994-2007 BMW Engines Technical Bulletin 05/07
Crankcase Ventilation System Check For 1994-2007 BMW Engines
The AERA Technical Committee offers the following information regarding the crankcase ventilation system for 1994-2007 BMW engines. This information should be considered any time oil consumption issues are being diagnosed.
Models affected: All with M42 (from 1/94), M44, M52, S52, M60, M62 and M73 engines.
Situation: All current BMW engines incorporate a pressure-controlled crankcase ventilation system. The crankcase ventilation systems use various different crankcase ventilation valves depending
on the engine type, as shown in the illustration.
Although the valves all look different, they function similarly using a spring and diaphragm assembly to control the crankcase pressure. A properly functioning pressure control valve is designed to maintain a slight vacuum (approx. 10-15 mbar) in the crankcase, which assures reliable crankcase venting during all engine operating conditions. A malfunctioning crankcase ventilation valve may cause the following complaints:
• Engine runs rough
• Whistling noise from the crankcase ventilation valve
• Check Engine Light on - possible DM faults stored: misfire all cylinders, oxygen sensor/mixture faults, etc.
To assist in troubleshooting the above complaints, a special tool part number (99 00 0 001 410) has been developed to quickly check a pressure-controlled crankcase ventilation system. Also, refer to service information bulletin number 04 08 98 for further information regarding the slack tube manometer tool.
The slack tube manometer tool consists of:
1. Slack Tube Manometer
2. Connecting Hose
3. Modified Oil Filter Cap
Follow the instructions included with the slack tube manometer for the initial tool set up and general operating procedures. Basic operation is as follows.
Information is from best available sources and is accurate at the time of publication. However, Jasper Engines & Transmissions ASSUMES NO RESPONSIBILITY and cannot be held liable for any results or consequences regarding the use of this information
1. Connect the slack tube manometer to the engine oil filter neck.
2. With both valves (1) open approximately 1/4 turn; zero the sliding scale using the knob (2) as shown in Figure 2.
3. Start the engine and observe the column of water.
4. With all electrical consumers and the air conditioning switched off, and engine at operating temperature, the reading should indicate from 3.0 - 6.0 inches of water at idle.
5. NOTE: The values on both sides of the slack tube must be added together to get the proper reading as seen in Figure 3.
6. Example: 2.5 + 2.5 = 5.0 inches of water. (The readings may fluctuate 0.1 - 0.2 during the measurement which is normal and does not indicate a defect.) If a crankcase ventilation valve is defective (damaged diaphragm) the column of water will indicate an off-the-scale reading (all of the water on one side of the slack tube) which designates a high crankcase vacuum.
7. NOTE: A higher than normal crankcase vacuum will also cause the crankshaft seals to leak outside air into the crankcase during engine operation. A whistling or howling noise is usually heard coming from the seal areas (front or rear), at idle, when this occurs.
TIMM also has good info https://www.meeknet.co.uk/e31/BMW_M6...entilation.htm
here the documents on scribd https://www.scribd.com/document/7747...00-BMW-Engines
I checked the Bentley manual as well as the workshop manual, nada
Last edited by shogun; 12-21-2019 at 03:50 AM.
Shogun tricks and tips for the E32 series are HERE!
15 in/ hg is fine at that point, more importantly the needle should be steady at idle. More importantly, the crankcase pressure should show a steady 10-15 millibar showing the PCV is doing its job. I measure it here:
Timm..2007 E64 650i Individual Sport..1999 E31 840ci Individual Sport..ex owner of 2000 E38 740..1999 E38 740i V8 M62..1998 E38 735i V8..1993 E32 730i V8..1988 E28 518i
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Interesting stuff shogun, thanks. Never saw that page on Timm's site before, good info.
I will be doing the dipstick test looking for 10-15mbr (assuming my gauge is sensitive enough).
I should probably also replace the PCV, but based on my experience trying to remove the six torx screws from the throttle body, that's going to require removing the manifold, which I am leaning more and more toward, funds permitted for the parts (~$85 plus shipping for all intake and injector gaskets, plus I want to do valve cover gaskets too so that's another $60 or so).
Mine has these symptoms:
"The diaphragm cracks and disintegrates - this allows un-metered air into the manifold. This fault leads to a number of problems, poor idle, multiple misfires, adaptations reached limits, pre-cat O2 errors."
But... both the smoke test and a liberal dousing with carb spray while idling shows no signs of leaks there. Interesting comment by 'jedbmw' about a "bubble test" by the way. I assume this involves the use of dish soap and pressuring the intake to look for leaks?
I will also check fuel pressure while I'm at it, that should give me more clues.
There are some pretty nice looking PCV's on eBay for a little over 20 bucks:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-PCV-Crankcase-Vent-Valve-For-BMW-E31-E32-E34-E38-530i-540i-740i-11617501562/181902413878
Anyone have experience with these? I generally only go OEM, but for $20 it may be worth a shot, especially compared to more crucial components.
Last edited by LysanderSpooner; 12-21-2019 at 07:06 PM.
I have wrenched on vehicles with:
1 cylinder
2 cylinders
3 cylinders
4 cylinders
5 cylinders
6 cylinders
7 spoke wheels
8 cylinders
Excuse my ignorance but wouldn't intake manifold vacuum be independent of crankcase pressure (assuming there isn't massive blow-by past the piston rings that creates more positive pressure in the manifold through the PCV system)?
Full vacuum gauge pressure should read about -29.9 inches of mercury, but I doubt an engine would ever pull to that much vacuum even at idle, or when revving it up and immediately closing the throttle body. If I had to guess idle would be about 10-20 in/hg. Wide open throttle would approach zero on a gauge (naturally aspirated engine).
In that video above, he is measuring only ~10 millibars gauge at the oil dipstick, which is barely any positive pressure above atmospheric in the crankcase of the engine. atmospheric pressure is 14.7 psi or 1013 millibar.
Edit: I just realized the 10 millibars at the dipstick is a very slight vacuum not 10mbar positive pressure. My knowledge of PCV systems is lacking...
Last edited by m60power; 12-22-2019 at 01:31 PM.
So after all the work I've done lately (see this thread), I am now seeing 16 in/ hg at idle. Still not sure about the condition of the PCV though, might just pop for a new one to be sure.
I have wrenched on vehicles with:
1 cylinder
2 cylinders
3 cylinders
4 cylinders
5 cylinders
6 cylinders
7 spoke wheels
8 cylinders
I replaced those !#$@ Torx bolts with regular 10mm hex. One has tight clearance that could be solved by thin-wall sockets or a little trimming of the PCV plate. Makes it easier to remove, especially without removing the manifold.
Funny you would mention that, because if you read back through my other thread I talk about finding a PCV in a Pick-A-Part that had hex bolts - cha-ching!
(Or so I thought... I didn't realize that the M62 version was different than the M60, but I tried it anyhow at $6... haha)
Now I've got one coming from FCP Euro and looking forward to how she runs with that.
I still can't believe how much I've gone through with this car, but why am I surprised...? 260k+ and counting, woohoo!
I have wrenched on vehicles with:
1 cylinder
2 cylinders
3 cylinders
4 cylinders
5 cylinders
6 cylinders
7 spoke wheels
8 cylinders
Somewhere on YouTube is the replacement of the outer half of the PCV valve and diaphragm while leaving the part attached to the manifold with the dreaded cap screws.
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