My '87 325 - Nörm

[128keaton]

This is my $500 BMW 325. I purchased it out of a field, drove it for a while, then frankensteined a B23+G260 build into it.

- Mileage: Unknown (presumably 300k+)
- Engine: M20B23 + 885 head (lol)
- Build Date: 1987-06-24
- Exterior Color: LACHSSILBER METALLIC (203) (factory, someone repainted a weird silver)
- Interior Color: (0212)


Spec rundown:

• Unknown mileage M20B23 + 885 head out of an '83 323
• Low mileage G260 out of a '91 325i vert
• New control arms
• New lollipop bushings
• New tie rod ends
• New coolant expansion tank
• New clutch (as of 1/10/20)
• New master cylinder
• New slave cylinder
• Custom "high beam" intake
• New aftermarket fog lights (tinted yellow)
• New shocks
• New front swaybar endlinks and bushings
• New fuel pumps
• Refreshed subframe
• Refreshed R134a A/C
• 027 M30 AFM

Coming Soon:

• 19lb Fuel Injectors
• 3 bar fuel regulator
• Refreshed interior
• E46 or Z3 Rack
• Basketweaves
• Tuck bumpers
• Replace lower lip
• New headunit and amp
• Coilovers (already have, just need front brake components)

[superj]

to bad you are not closer, I have a number of seat sets and am in need of an automatic trans

[128keaton]

Bummer! The seats are probably the worst part of it right now. The metal hurts, ha!

[128keaton]

I spent the weekend doing a few things just to make it run better, as is. I replaced one of the motor mounts since it tore while changing the oil. Made a big difference in the engine feel. I ran some Seafoam through the crankcase just to see if it would help some of the carbon buildup. Added a few interior bulbs to make it livable. I've got a Rockauto order coming in which has the antenna grommet, instrument cluster bulbs, and a washer fluid pump. Started pricing out swap and suspension rebuild. Found a deal up in MO for $1100 for an M20B25, G260, pedals, driveshaft, master/slave cylinders, hardlines, and ecu. Not a bad price. Looking like a full, budget, suspension rebuild is around $400. Need to figure out exhaust soon, the hole is getting worse. Yesterday it was whistling, free turbo?

[superj]

ha ha ha, it is going to turn into quicksand soon. its ok, the cars are fun to drive

[128keaton]

ha ha ha, it is going to turn into quicksand soon. its ok, the cars are fun to drive

Even with an auto! I’m surprised. I kinda am stuck between dropping 3k for a used 325i with a 5speed and 178k or spending 2k more on this one to get it exactly how I want. This one is great because I don’t really have to care about the cosmetics and I won’t feel bad swapping and messing with a worn out 325. If I had a 325i that was kinda clean, I’m not sure I’d enjoy it as much seeing as how it’s a good, clean car. I’m not even sure I could get what I have in this 325 for how it sits right now (1600). I’m really itching to make it a 5speed with some get up and go behind it.

[superj]

you might as well keep what you have then. at least you know where you are starting and won't feel bad about swapping stuff. and cosmetically, that one is pretty good. that's the main part

[128keaton]

you might as well keep what you have then. at least you know where you are starting and won't feel bad about swapping stuff. and cosmetically, that one is pretty good. that's the main part

Ultimately, I agree. The cosmetics is the least concerning part for this car. I'd be happy with working seats and stereo.


The paint is mostly fine, the roof is the worst part. I figure if it gets bad enough, some white plasti-dip on the top would look cool as well as prevent further rust. The seat foam is so stiff, so the cloth is being torn on on the seats. I do not think these are worth saving.

[superj]

my youngest son's car had torn up seats so we went to the junkyard and he test sat seats. once he found a set he liked, we took the bases off the factory comfort seats and welded them to the new sporty seats he picked. they ended up having a pattern so close to the hounds tooth and colors so close to the e30 that most people think they came in it. they were in a Hyundai Tiburon gt and are greyish with black bolsters. my son loves them so I just kept the black sport seats and the e21 factory recaros in the garage for another e30 later on.

[128keaton]

my youngest son's car had torn up seats so we went to the junkyard and he test sat seats. once he found a set he liked, we took the bases off the factory comfort seats and welded them to the new sporty seats he picked. they ended up having a pattern so close to the hounds tooth and colors so close to the e30 that most people think they came in it. they were in a Hyundai Tiburon gt and are greyish with black bolsters. my son loves them so I just kept the black sport seats and the e21 factory recaros in the garage for another e30 later on.

That’s a great idea. I’m gonna look and try to find something like that. Maybe a set from a Camry or something common. Was his a coupe or a sedan? That’s my only “challenge” per se, finding something that still allows access to the rear. Not a huge priority, but would be nice.

I 3D printed some switch blanks to get rid of the useless volume dial (aftermarket radio which needs to be replaced) and get rid of the power window switch. Is this switch a breaker if something gets caught in the window? I just got rid of it since the button didn’t work properly and would fall out on occasion.



I also fixed the right side gauge cluster light. Turns out the socket wasn’t grounded. I tried tracing the ground line but couldn’t find the issue. I think there’s a bad diode on the board somewhere. I just ran a new ground from another connector with a known good ground. This cluster will be swapped with a VDO unit that goes to 7k RPM when it’s eventually swapped so I’m not super concerned about it. Am still trying to resolve the gas gauge/temp gauge issues (both are now non-operative, coolant gauge worked before I fixed the ground lol). Both nuts are missing so I’m gonna replace those and go from there.





Pardon the poor cluster pictures.

I received my antenna grommet replacement yesterday, so that was installed. Car should not flood with water when it rains now, yay.



ROCKAUTO had a close out on the valve cover gasket. I figured for a $1.60 I couldn’t go wrong. I believe it’s leaking from the back. I plan to do a valve adjustment when I’m in there. Also gives me a little window to see if the timing belt is holding up or not.



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[superj]

dang! good price on the vcg.

usually its the nut on the gas and temp gage. its loose or has corrosion under it so its not grounding properly.

I had solder in new traces on a gage cluster before, too. I know how that goes.

that upper window switch is a circuit breaker, but for what reason, who knows? I always used it as a window lock so people wouldn't roll the windows down if I wanted them up.


yes, on ours, its a four door so the tilt wasn't so important but since the Hyundai Tiburon is a two door, they do tilt all the way forward. you would need Toyota solara seats if you want the tilt in something that is fairly common, like a Toyota seat. or a cavalier two door

[128keaton]

dang! good price on the vcg.

usually its the nut on the gas and temp gage. its loose or has corrosion under it so its not grounding properly.

I had solder in new traces on a gage cluster before, too. I know how that goes.

that upper window switch is a circuit breaker, but for what reason, who knows? I always used it as a window lock so people wouldn't roll the windows down if I wanted them up.


yes, on ours, its a four door so the tilt wasn't so important but since the Hyundai Tiburon is a two door, they do tilt all the way forward. you would need Toyota solara seats if you want the tilt in something that is fairly common, like a Toyota seat. or a cavalier two door

Yeah both nuts were completely missing. Replaced them, but the gas gauge is still non-functional. Tach stopped working too, ha. Temp gauge is back.

The windows were intermittent at best so I figured I’d get rid of anything that could be causing a problem.

I’m not super wild about the idea of non-E30 seats, but as they get scarcer that might be the best, budget option. Thanks!

I started deleting the fader and looking at the stereo wiring. Ugh, what a mess. Whoever wired in the stereo Had no idea what they were doing.


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[superj]

Most of the time, you have to hook your stereo speaker + up ant not hook the - side wires up or you won't get sound. Something about the way the car is wired, unless you want to run new wires.


Get a magnifier and look for cracks around the solder for those little gauges, on the board. Usually thay is a problem. You can just reflow the solder and fix stuff like thay.

Or, maybe the sender is gummed up. If you open the panel under the rear seat, its held onto the pump assembly top with four 8mm nuts and has its own little plug so you can pull it out and test it easily

[128keaton]

Most of the time, you have to hook your stereo speaker + up ant not hook the - side wires up or you won't get sound. Something about the way the car is wired, unless you want to run new wires.


Get a magnifier and look for cracks around the solder for those little gauges, on the board. Usually thay is a problem. You can just reflow the solder and fix stuff like thay.

Or, maybe the sender is gummed up. If you open the panel under the rear seat, its held onto the pump assembly top with four 8mm nuts and has its own little plug so you can pull it out and test it easily

Sounds good. I found the electrical manual online so I’m gonna take a crack at it later. I put a multimeter on some of the wires and got 5v out. I’m assuming this is the circuit to the speaker from the stereo?

The gas gauge is pegged to empty. If I unplug the sending unit, the needle goes up a tad. Almost as if something is backwards.

The sending unit was replaced recently, but I’m not ruling it out.



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[128keaton]

Had some friends drop by and wanted to help work on the E30. The valve cover was removed and the valves were adjusted. They had zero clearance, ha. All put to 0.010”. One friend had never really worked on cars before, so naturally I had him adjusting the valves. He did a great job. Truly a testament to how easy these cars are to work on. Only snag was one of the valve cover nuts snapped the stud. So far, no leaks. Fingers crossed.

I figured out the fader wiring. Basically, all yellow wires were attached together, and all blue wires were attached together. The brown (ground) and red-striped gray (12v for lighting) were “capped”.


Messy wiring left by the PO. Not too mangled.






Diagram used to determine the delete





Proper fader delete.




eBay door handle arrived today. Fit great. My fingers already feel better.






Deck back in, for now.




I also removed the rear speakers since they just rattled (bad cone)

Looks like it might’ve been a nice system, years ago.





The parking brake handle was found in the glovebox. There’s some plastic missing around the base, but it’s solid otherwise.




The door dent was pushed out enough for the trim to be reinstalled.




Also the rats nest underneath the dash was tamed. The door chime was also reconnected.



I can also confirm the temp gauge works now, as well as the tachometer. Thank god.



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[superj]

its looking good. that will be a decently fun good gas mileage car

the stud snapping probably won't cause any leaks. I have seen a fair number of cars with studs snapped for the valve cover and no leaks. and if you get really bored and can grab the snapped left over bit on the head, you can thread it out and put a new one in.

[128keaton]

its looking good. that will be a decently fun good gas mileage car

the stud snapping probably won't cause any leaks. I have seen a fair number of cars with studs snapped for the valve cover and no leaks. and if you get really bored and can grab the snapped left over bit on the head, you can thread it out and put a new one in.

Hopefully so! Next steps are suspension rebuild. I think CVs and wheel bearings are fine. Rolls great. Pretty much everything else though is completely shot.

I'm not too concerned over it. A M20B25 is still what I'm leaning towards with a 5-speed, which will fix the snapped stud

I feel like I should mention that this isn't my first rodeo. I put like 40k on a 1993 4Runner over the course of three-ish years.
https://www.toyota-4runner.org/class...a-4runner.html

Worst engine Toyota has ever made. I snapped ~3 valve cover studs at separate times. The exterior on the 325 is better than the 4Runner was, but mechanically, the 325 has got a long way to go.

[superj]

swapping the m20b25 in will be super easy and you are pretty central in the states so you should be good on finding one for a good price. especially with how parts prices seem to be in north carolina for e30 stuff

we had a 98 camry with the v6 in it, recently. it was a dang good car and I kind of regret selling it. it was not easy to work on though. we had to take half the engine apart to change the valve covers. was your 4runner a 3.0 or whatever the v6 is? that's what our camry was. I was so glad it didn't have a dang timing belt

[128keaton]

Yeah, my only concern is the wiring, cluster, and ECU. I found an M20B25 with 207k on it for $1100. Includes the G260, pedals, driveshaft, hardlines, master and slave cylinders, ECU, and harness. Not a bad deal, imho. 207k doesn't really scare me.

Those 98 Camrys have the best body style. Unkillable. Yeah, they crammed that V6 in there. That engine is a bit different from the 3VZE in my 4Runner. The 3VZE ate head gaskets for breakfast, was really under powered, and surprisingly loud. Very much hated in the T4R community. I didn't think it was terrible, paired with a 5-speed it wasn't awful, but the MPGs sucked (~13 hwy at 70mph). So many vacuum hoses. Terrible exhaust routing (responsible for the head gaskets blowing). The 5VZE, based on the 3VZE, is the fan-favorite for longevity and reliability. Based on the 3VZE, the block is actually the same, but the heads are different--they switched to a DOHC setup with a lighter crank and better fuel management. The exhaust was also re-routed slightly differently. The 5VZE is a very popular swap for a 3VZE, given that Toyota put the 5VZE in so many things. 1st gen Tundra, 1st gen Tacoma, 3rd gen 4Runner, and a few other things overseas.

The M20B27 reminds me of the 3VZE in many ways (VAFM, dumb ECU, fixed lifters, loud injectors) so I feel right at home. I'm a college student on a budget, so I usually spend more time researching, tinkering, and learning as much as I can before spending $$$. Very happy this forum exists.

[128keaton]

I finally determined that the sending unit was bad. I learned that it was, in fact, not replaced. The original VDO unit was still installed.


I pulled the sending unit and did a post-mortem. Gotta love that ethanol. The unit’s float had been frozen for quite some time. I completely disassembled to see if I could fix it. Turns out, these are pretty basic units. I pulled the float and sanded the shaft until I was happy with it. I soaked the aluminum shell in soapy water to try and remove the grime inside. While it was soaking, I started looking at float and the sensing wires. The wires were broken at opposite ends, one of the tabs had broken off the base of the unit, and everything was corroded. I was able to get the tab soldered back on and reattach the two wires. I sanded the inside of the float to get rid of the corrosion and pieced everything back together.




This pic was taken before I got the last wire attached.



Success-ish. It’s not really accurate and fluctuates a lot with driving activities, but it tells me the unit just needs replacing and that the problem doesn’t lie elsewhere.


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[superj]

I always didn't have enough money to buy things, unless it was a real emergency, so I had to take stuff apart and try and get it working again.


the m20b27 is actually a really good motor. I have seen both with over 700k miles on them though and owned both with over 350k as daily drivers. they will run forever. the fuel injection on the b27 is the older style, from the e28, and is not made to be the fun sports car fuel injection like the b25 and newer bmw motors. the old motoronic 1.0 in the b27 motors is a great system but its like the renix system in the jeeps in that jeep people don't want it because its not as powerful and has more sensors. once I had to dig into a renix jeep Cherokee, I learned how solid and dependable that system is also. but, as for our e30s, I have not a single issue with have a 325e or basic 325 because I know that engine and system will never let me down.

we actually had three b27 powered cars recently but one became a donor for my son's 87 when he wrecked it and one went to a good buddy for him to restore. the last, my son's car, has now become a 325is and will get another engine/trans swap this year up to an m5x with trans. I will put a the b25 from my son's car into the garage and hold it for a future e30. we also have that 88 super eta which I am working on for my youngest son to drive

[128keaton]

I always didn't have enough money to buy things, unless it was a real emergency, so I had to take stuff apart and try and get it working again.


the m20b27 is actually a really good motor. I have seen both with over 700k miles on them though and owned both with over 350k as daily drivers. they will run forever. the fuel injection on the b27 is the older style, from the e28, and is not made to be the fun sports car fuel injection like the b25 and newer bmw motors. the old motoronic 1.0 in the b27 motors is a great system but its like the renix system in the jeeps in that jeep people don't want it because its not as powerful and has more sensors. once I had to dig into a renix jeep Cherokee, I learned how solid and dependable that system is also. but, as for our e30s, I have not a single issue with have a 325e or basic 325 because I know that engine and system will never let me down.

we actually had three b27 powered cars recently but one became a donor for my son's 87 when he wrecked it and one went to a good buddy for him to restore. the last, my son's car, has now become a 325is and will get another engine/trans swap this year up to an m5x with trans. I will put a the b25 from my son's car into the garage and hold it for a future e30. we also have that 88 super eta which I am working on for my youngest son to drive

I've been impressed with it so far. I've been driving the piss out of it since I'm planning for a B25, but the B27 hasn't really missed a beat. It actually feels better the more I drive it. 700k is awesome. I wonder how much of the ring wear on this was turning over after sitting for too long. I really don't mind driving it, its actually pretty fun. Build up some momentum and zip through traffic. Good score on the super eta, I've heard those are pretty cool!

[superj]

if you have a little boroscope, or one of the ones that plug into your phone, pull a spark plug and look at the cylinder walls and I bet you will see the cross hatch still from when it was new. that is how most b27 motors are when people have to replace a head gasket or have a timing belt break at the mileage yours has. same thing with the b25

this superE has already had someone do some things to it so its not actually still a superE. its already got the engine electronics changed and a limited slip diff in the back. speed wise, its keeps up with the b25 in my son's car and only seems to stay a second behind because my son't car still has the 4.10 from when he swapped it and had the b27 in it while the superE has the 2.93 in it. I think if we had a 3.73 for the superE, it would kill the 325is, light to light and on top speed.

[128keaton]

if you have a little boroscope, or one of the ones that plug into your phone, pull a spark plug and look at the cylinder walls and I bet you will see the cross hatch still from when it was new. that is how most b27 motors are when people have to replace a head gasket or have a timing belt break at the mileage yours has. same thing with the b25

this superE has already had someone do some things to it so its not actually still a superE. its already got the engine electronics changed and a limited slip diff in the back. speed wise, its keeps up with the b25 in my son's car and only seems to stay a second behind because my son't car still has the 4.10 from when he swapped it and had the b27 in it while the superE has the 2.93 in it. I think if we had a 3.73 for the superE, it would kill the 325is, light to light and on top speed.

I really need to invest in one of those. Super handy. Side note, I did see the side of the timing belt when I had the valve cover off and it looked pretty good. Wasn't shiny, no cracks, etc.
If this engine didn't have this many miles, I'd be tempted to look into a superE conversion. Though a friend has a spare Volvo turbo off a diesel waggy that would be fun to try and add to the B27, though I don't think it would care much for the pressure

[superj]

If I remember right, the b27 has higher compression then the 2.5, but I could be mis-remembering right. I know I always read people putting the turbo and running 8psi and the stock ecu was ok with it. I never tried ti though.

my son used a 4.10 from an old 318, the small case diff that everyone is always throwing away, and has had zero problems. he has been autocrossing it and everything and that little diff works fine. if you find one from an old 318, be it a 4.10 or something else, I would get it as they are usually free to cheap. it bolts right in and you can see how you like it and swap is back if you don't care for it