Aftermarket 10.25" Nav Head Unit

[Frankie]

It's interesting to browse some of the aftermarket nav head units, but I remain highly skeptical of both their quality and functionality.

This one caught my eye: Xtrons PX6 Android Unit with 10.25" screen

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Observations:

It's disappointing that these units are still too deep to fit E38s (although the advertising graphics state otherwise), and operate using the Andriod OS. As such, they require unlimited data plans and continuous connectivity in order to be functional. But the price is right.

With a name like "Xtrons", it makes you wonder just how serious these guys are. (Next I expect to see a unit made by "SkyNet"). Poorly translated Chinese-to-English website text contributes to lowered expectations. Although this manufacturer seems to have more helpful info than Avin, the only aftermarket unit whose look and size will work in our E38s.

And while the large screen size is appealing, I'm not sure the unit's styling compares to the classy stock electronics made by Alpine.

If only.

[DennisCooper]

Hi,

I'm sure with enough serious interest an E38 version of the solution made for the E39 could be developed & manufactured! It'd then allow the fitting of a high quality and reliable shallow depth double DIN head unit from the likes of Alpine, Kenwood, Sony, Parrot, JVC and Pioneer once they do a suitable shallow unit !

The E39 version;

https://forum.bmw5.co.uk/topic/13564...le-din-fascia/

As for the various Chinese units, they're still low quality and reliability and the right 'price' for them is $99 retail and $49 to an importer/stockist. Over many BMW forums, this one included, various chinese 'brands' have sponsored them and sold these units and then subsequently been asked to leave/kicked off after many forum members who purchasd experienced issues with little to no good support. I've met and spoken with respresentatives of Xtrons at SEMA/CES shows in 2011/12 along with other Chinese electronics representatives along with high quality electronics manufacturers and specialists at the same shows and ones back here in the UK, until they start using automotive grade, properly designed and tested electronics with a full and proper after sales care/warranty channel for importers, there's no chance I'll be selling them for the UK (or European) markets.

The 10.25 inch screen ones make a much cheaper alternative to retrofitting the OEM NBT route though !

Cheers, Dennis!

[franco90]

Hi,

I'm sure with enough serious interest an E38 version of the solution made for the E39 could be developed & manufactured! It'd then allow the fitting of a high quality and reliable shallow depth double DIN head unit from the likes of Alpine, Kenwood, Sony, Parrot, JVC and Pioneer once they do a suitable shallow unit !

The E39 version;

https://forum.bmw5.co.uk/topic/13564...le-din-fascia/

As for the various Chinese units, they're still low quality and reliability and the right 'price' for them is $99 retail and $49 to an importer/stockist. Over many BMW forums, this one included, various chinese 'brands' have sponsored them and sold these units and then subsequently been asked to leave/kicked off after many forum members who purchasd experienced issues with little to no good support. I've met and spoken with respresentatives of Xtrons at SEMA/CES shows in 2011/12 along with other Chinese electronics representatives along with high quality electronics manufacturers and specialists at the same shows and ones back here in the UK, until they start using automotive grade, properly designed and tested electronics with a full and proper after sales care/warranty channel for importers, there's no chance I'll be selling them for the UK (or European) markets.

The 10.25 inch screen ones make a much cheaper alternative to retrofitting the OEM NBT route though !

Cheers, Dennis!

I am asking around to see if the can make this for the E38

[Aitch]

...and operate using the Andriod OS. As such, they require unlimited data plans and continuous connectivity in order to be functional. But the price is right.

They only require a data connection to use things like messaging, music streaming, web browsing or social media apps. Units like these still have a radio on board, and you can connect to an SD card or your phone for other media. Data connections only enhance what they can do over and above a traditional radio unit.

For navigation, you can use downloaded offline maps as well. But if you connect data you can get real-time traffic updates etc on Google Maps or Waze. I haven't tested this, but I believe for many units you can do this through a hotspot from your phone (basically sharing your phone's data connection over wifi to the head unit).

[DennisCooper]

I am asking around to see if the can make this for the E38

Hi Franco!

Saw your message on the other channel

Perhaps if you could/can create a dedicated thread here to guage interest ?! I'm sure the skilful manufacturer of that E39 solution could expedite things for an E38 version

Cheers, Dennis!

[franco90]

Hi Franco!

Saw your message on the other channel

Perhaps if you could/can create a dedicated thread here to guage interest ?! I'm sure the skilful manufacturer of that E39 solution could expedite things for an E38 version

Cheers, Dennis!

Dennis PLease let me know what you need from me as far as cash to get this started to make a model for the E38's

[Frankie]

...Data connections only enhance what they can do over and above a traditional radio unit.

True.

But from what I've seen regarding the Avin nav (which also uses Android OS), these units display a continuous on-screen message "NO DATA" or similar when a hotspot is not present or when signal is lost. That's annoying.

To prevent this message, a constant Wi-Fi hotspot from your phone is required. But using your phone in this manner draws considerable battery power -- which means your phone needs to be plugged into a power supply at all times (with unsightly wires dangling). But what if you forgot your phone?

Or what about those who live in an area of poor reception? To address these limitations and make an Android nav more practical, you'll need to consider snap-in adapters (Phone Charging and Signal Boosting).

Since these units are so dependent upon a data connection, it would be better if they held an internal SIM card and had an external antenna. This would properly address the data requirements, and make fumbling with your phone optional. Of course, your data plan just got more expensive too.

And yes, you can use offline maps, but a subscription is required (ex: iGo maps are $99/yr and look cartoon-ish to me). So I doubt many people will do this (you need an SD slot on your home PC to download the maps).

By contrast, a Dynavin nav has its own proprietary operating system (the "N7"). As such it's not dependent upon data per se. However you'll want data to take advantage of its features. With the N7, phone screen mirroring can be used when desired (thru Apple Play or Andriod Auto) which provides more flexibility. Too bad Dynavin doesn't fit the E38.

So it looks to me as if a data connection is not optional, at least for Andriod navs.

[Aitch]

I can't provide any definitive counterpoints, since I don't actually have an Android unit. Only what I know based on research. So I don't know about the "no data" message. If it appears only in the top navigation bar, that can likely be hidden depending on the settings of the Android version being used. It may indeed be a problem with Avin that is only solvable by having a wifi hotspot connected.

For navigation, you can use Google Maps which allows databases of local areas to be downloaded, and only asks for updates every 30 days. You won't get live traffic updates, but full offline navigation is possible as long as GPS is hooked up.

Not sure about Avin, but a lot of other Android units you can plug in a USB-based dongle for a SIM card. Yes you'll need to pay for data, but that's the way to go if you want to be connected and not tethered to your phone.

[jimoreno]

I've had the Avin Avant 4 for about 3 months now and I can tell you that it doesn't display any error message. Instead of connecting the unit to data I use the Android Auto USB dongle and connect my phone to it. The only complaint that I have is the the USB port current is very low and the phone actually discharges instead of charging it. I'm thinking about adding a wireless charging pad in the area in front of the OBD port to drop it there and then configure the USB for data transfer only (I se wireless charging at work and at home).

[Frankie]

Jim,

Good info.

Connecting via USB with Android Auto may be enough to satisfy the nav's need for data. On YouTube was an E46 owner who installed an Avin which presented NO DATA messages during his video demo. But he had it set up for hotspot use, not Andriod Auto.

It's interesting that only current BMW models offer Andriod Auto and Apple CarPlay as part of their proprietary Live Cockpit Professional OS. But the real trick here is that it doesn't require a USB connection and instead is wireless. This is apparently unique among car makers (all others require tethering for phone screen mirroring). See this article.

Nevertheless, I maintain that a nav's demand for continuous data leaves consumers unprepared (as Jim's experience shows) and, reveals shortcomings with the navs themselves. There's no avoiding the implications: continuous phone power and network signal boosters with external antennas are the only way to make aftermarket navs practical -- and will leave us hopelessly tethered to our phones. Only with SIM cards internal to the nav (linked with external antennas) is there a chance to drive de-coupled.

[Aitch]

It's partially due to the technology being used in the navigation app itself. Data is necessary for 2 things - traffic updates and map updates. In OEM systems, map updates are either done periodically through physical connections, or over the air if the car has a native data connection - and this may be included, or paid by the owner as a subscription. For aftermarket systems running Google Maps, Wyze, or other apps, they want to update only through data - whether that is tethered to your phone, Wifi network, or using a data dongle.

For traffic updates, OEM systems can use the car's data connection if it exists, but a more common method is the FM RDS system. This allows info to be transmitted over FM bands silently to your infotainment, without the need for a data connection. It is less detailed than an app-based system, but free from the data requirement. There are some aftermarket radios that utilize this as well, but it is less common.

However, all of this supposes that you require looking for real-time traffic information. Satellite navigation, as it has existed since the dawn of dash-top units, will still function just fine with only a GPS receiver, no data required. If you update your maps once a year to stay on top of road and route changes, you'll have excellent navigation without needing a data connection all the time.