V8 Headers

[rjbaren]

Hi guys, I am having an engine for My Lotus Europa engine done at a race engine shop and one of the guys working there said he can extract more horse out the of BMW V8 with porting and polishing plus a set of headers.
Has anyone ever found a set of headers that will fit the e31 V8? Have e39 or e34 V8 headers been adapted?

[tbonelarry]

I bought a set of stainless customScreen Shot 2019-11-23 at 3.49.26 PM.png headers off Ebay Germany a year or so ago. I haven't installed them yet as I was going to install them with a supercharger, but my project stalled - not least of which how hard it's become to smog these cars even with a 'friendly' shop in California. They are for a M62 4.4 LHD car. I can't vouch for the extra HP claimed in the Ebay ad, but I did hear exactly what you heard and they look good and are brand new. I'd be willing to sell them for $1500 + shipping

[ltbrett]

Last year I swapped my m60 for an m62 from an e39. I can definitively tell you that the e31 headers are different from the e39 headers, although the e31 headers fit both the m60 and m62. The e39 headers hit part of the frame and cannot be used.

Brett

[Belgiumbarry]

don't know about the V8 ... but what i do know is that in most cases it is very difficult to install them.. mostly it will demand either removing the front cross member or pulling the engine higher up.... i have the V12 and was already hard struggling with the down tubes... let alone a header....

[Goodguyili]

I've been talking briefly with Viktor from Soara Performance about designing m60 headers for my 840. He currently has an m60, although I'm unsure if its a rhd or lhd. As far as we know, m60 motors all shared the same exhaust manifold across all models? Maybe the e38 m60 is different from e31/e32/e34, if anyone can chime in that would be great. Also, are LHD and RHD headers non-interchangeable?

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[ltbrett]

Since M62 exhaust headers are not common across all models, I would be cautious assuming M60 headers are. Check realoem for part numbers.

[Timm]

The headers are common between M60 E31's, E32's and E34's (there are four of them) and are even used on some M62-engined models!

[Goodguyili]

The headers are common between M60 E31's, E32's and E34's (there are four of them) and are even used on some M62-engined models!

Thanks Timm! I'll let him know, it seems there's a possibility for headers besides supersprint.

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[Timm]

One downside of putting headers on is that you also raise the engine-bay temperature, and it's pretty high already! The original manifold pipes are double-walled to retain heat for the cats, the secondary function is to reduce the heat from them.

[Goodguyili]

One downside of putting headers on is that you also raise the engine-bay temperature, and it's pretty high already! The original manifold pipes are double-walled to retain heat for the cats, the secondary function is to reduce the heat from them.

It probably would benefit from heat extractors on the hood. Possibly exhaust wrap or high-temp ceramic coat will help too. I'll keep that in mind, thanks again Timm.

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[mynameisowen]

I've been talking briefly with Viktor from Soara Performance about designing m60 headers for my 840. He currently has an m60, although I'm unsure if its a rhd or lhd. As far as we know, m60 motors all shared the same exhaust manifold across all models? Maybe the e38 m60 is different from e31/e32/e34, if anyone can chime in that would be great. Also, are LHD and RHD headers non-interchangeable?

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Hello Goodguyili,
(I can't PM you because I'm a new member)

I'm currently having Soara Performance make some exhaust manifolds for my E31 with M62. My research shows that part nos are the same between M60 and M62 powered E31s, with there being a difference between LHD/RHD. I presume this is due to location of steering intermediate shaft, in any case Viktor is going to make some for me. Are you interested in joining in on the purchase? Where did you get to with this topic? Are you LHD or RHD?

Does anyone know of any good pictures of the engine bay with engine removed so I can see the clearance issues? Visibility is so poor with engine in situ.

Owen

- - - Updated - - -

Hi guys, I am having an engine for My Lotus Europa engine done at a race engine shop and one of the guys working there said he can extract more horse out the of BMW V8 with porting and polishing plus a set of headers.
Has anyone ever found a set of headers that will fit the e31 V8? Have e39 or e34 V8 headers been adapted?

Hello rjbaren,
See my post above. Any progress on your side?

[Hyper]

... the clearance issues? Visibility is so poor...

Custom headers on a E31 V8 is a fool's fantasy, possibly modeled after hot rod mag porn showing a legacy engine in a HUGE bay.
On the e31 it's a doomed effort with no proven benefit but has the downsides as pointed out.

The fool starts the header journey by...
1) Dismissing a design that is already working just fine per factory engineering.
2) Imagining benefits that won't actually happen due to other factors or are not particularly valuable for the vehicle mission.
3) Editing out the development cost, both time and money.

But ultimately...
1) That is a 90-degree engine with dohc heads. Wide.
2) That is a small and tight engine bay with other standard equipment present.

In reality, the stock header has a molded shape so that the 2 pieces per side fit tightly together,
with clearance to the bay sheetmetal, support beam and bay equipment.

After numerous e31 V8 swaps (the number being 4) this seasoned wrencher eventually got the stock header extraction
and installation down to a particular sequence, a corkscrew maneuver, an engine lift height, a set of ratchet tools.

If custom headers are the fool's hobby may I recommend say a narrow 60-degree sohc engine or another vehicle
and first proving the result with engine dyno numbers.

[Goodguyili]

Custom headers on a E31 V8 is a fool's fantasy, possibly modeled after hot rod mag porn showing a legacy engine in a HUGE bay.
On the e31 it's a doomed effort with no proven benefit but has the downsides as pointed out.

The fool starts the header journey by...
1) Dismissing a design that is already working just fine per factory engineering.
2) Imagining benefits that won't actually happen due to other factors or are not particularly valuable for the vehicle mission.
3) Editing out the development cost, both time and money.

But ultimately...
1) That is a 90-degree engine with dohc heads. Wide.
2) That is a small and tight engine bay with other standard equipment present.

In reality, the stock header has a molded shape so that the 2 pieces per side fit tightly together,
with clearance to the bay sheetmetal, support beam and bay equipment.

After numerous e31 V8 swaps (the number being 4) this seasoned wrencher eventually got the stock header extraction
and installation down to a particular sequence, a corkscrew maneuver, an engine lift height, a set of ratchet tools.

If custom headers are the fool's hobby may I recommend say a narrow 60-degree sohc engine or another vehicle
and first proving the result with engine dyno numbers.

Hyper, while yes the V8 headers are pretty well designed, there is a reason why people make aftermarket headers for them, because there is still room for improvement. Otherwise companies like supersprint or Einhorn industries wouldn't make headers for the m60/62/s62. The e39 is a great comparative example, a much smaller engine bay in my opinion, and einhorn makes their massive 4-1 headers fit. Soara performance is simply offering a new leg in the game; a less expensive alternative to the other brands.

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[///MpulseM3]

Coming from the E46 M3 forum, I see way too much backlash on improving the E31. Every other BMW platform gets the luxury of modding, oem+, and track car mind sets that are forward thinking and use up to date knowledge to improve the experience. However, the E31 gets excluded from that. I’ll see a few here and there that think this way, but holy are there a bunch of nay sayers here. I’m looking into headers as well and if soara made some, then I would be interested as well.

[Hyper]

Hey, I just found this forward thinking performance improvement for the e31 V8.
Who else is interested?

[Goodguyili]

Coming from the E46 M3 forum, I see way too much backlash on improving the E31. Every other BMW platform gets the luxury of modding, oem+, and track car mind sets that are forward thinking and use up to date knowledge to improve the experience. However, the E31 gets excluded from that. I’ll see a few here and there that think this way, but holy are there a bunch of nay sayers here. I’m looking into headers as well and if soara made some, then I would be interested as well.

I wholeheartedly agree. Its a shame because this community is full of intelligent folks who keep these cars on the road, but sometimes gets overshadowed by diehard mentality.

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[mynameisowen]

Thanks for the broadly positive feedback on this topic.

I wholeheartedly agree. Its a shame because this community is full of intelligent folks who keep these cars on the road, but sometimes gets overshadowed by diehard mentality.

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Did you see the question in my post, did you make any progress in your discussions with Soara Performance?

[mynameisowen]

Custom headers on a E31 V8 is a fool's fantasy...

The only constructive comment I can add here is that the M62/S62 headers are regarded as restrictive, evidenced by the numerous off the shelf systems available for the E39.
You can see an example of the OEM design here: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/222153064680
I'm attempting to add another option for the E31 V8 community.

[Hyper]

...evidenced by...

About 35 years ago, the PhD CEO of my Silicon Valley company (Acer) made a statement that stuck with me since. >> "Speak with data"
IOW's if you are to make a claim, propose an action, be prepared to present hard numbers that anyone can agree or disagree to.
***
While I'm here, ///MpulseM3 with 3 forward slashes, has posited profoundly false premises about the e31 community.
For instance, no one (in the US) is preventing ///MpulseM3 with 3 forward slashes from whimsical mod'ing.
Leave that restriction to UK MOT, others.

My redline is the boundary between personal choice, and public promotion of facts not in evidence.
Absent hard data, that earns you a brush back pitch.

[Goodguyili]

Thanks for the broadly positive feedback on this topic.



Did you see the question in my post, did you make any progress in your discussions with Soara Performance?

I have not spoken to Viktor lately, due to a lot of other stuff I'm trying to take care of. It is still on my mind and if he makes some headers I'd be happy to join in on a group buy.

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[m6bigdog]

Hyper,
Well said!!

[Hyper]

Hyper, Well said!!

Needs improvement.

... no one (in the US) is preventing...whimsical mod'ing.

Sorry Hyper, but the US emissions regime can stop you from whimsical mod'ing of emissions systems
AND they can interpret headers as integral to the system, impacting the emissions signature.

[mynameisowen]

I have not spoken to Viktor lately, due to a lot of other stuff I'm trying to take care of. It is still on my mind and if he makes some headers I'd be happy to join in on a group buy.

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I will be sure to contact you once they're finished (provisionally end of Feb.) and I've had a chance to look at them.

Are you RHD or LHD?

[Goodguyili]

I will be sure to contact you once they're finished (provisionally end of Feb.) and I've had a chance to look at them.

Are you RHD or LHD?

Sounds great, I have a LHD

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[bdiefAZ]

There is always room for improvement on any car, even the e31!