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Thread: Fuel System Questions

  1. #1
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    Fuel System Questions

    Hey guys,

    I haven't driven my M3 very much at all in the last couple of years and it had plenty of 98 octane in it to start. The usual starts ( no driving) has brought the tank down to just over half.
    I stupidly forgot to add stabiliser and it was too late by this time..

    I came to start it today and it wouldn't.. I'm thinking it has to be bad fuel.
    I replaced the fuel filter with a brand new spare item I had just to eliminate that.
    It still wouldn't start.

    I then checked fuel pump and it checked ok. It will start and stop in the few seconds it's supposed to just to pressurize the system when the key is turned to POS 2.
    I felt the faint vibration as i placed my hand over it to verify this.
    I carefully removed the return line on top of the fuel pump and fuel gushed out (into a rag of course) which tells me fuel is getting through ok.

    I am wondering if anybody has had to deal with this issue and can someone please tell me the best way to drain the tank and the lines.
    I have tried to jump the relay N/O contacts for the fuel pump but this does nothing.
    The amount of junk advice online is astounding and it's very hard to get reliable DIY help for our specific Euro Spec E36 M3s.
    It all seems to be for U.S based M3s with those 328 engines and nothing is even remotely the same. Very frustrating.

    I even pulled a couple of spark plugs to check for any fouling and none presented in any way. All three plugs checks were dry.
    Should I have had wet plugs at this point or not ??
    Do you think the injectors could be a problem too ??

    I was also considering dropping the tank but this is a big time consuming job.
    I really don't want to go down that path if I can help it..

    So if anybody can help out I'd greatly appreciate it.
    After this saga is over, I will ensure this NEVER happens again.

    Thanks guys.

    99 Anniversary Edition - E36 - ///M3 - Cosmos Black - SMG - Extended Nappa Leather -
    S50B32 - 236 KW - 320 HP

  2. #2
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    I had a similar problem with a long time stored E32 750, fuel went bad and gummed up all fuel injectors, spark plugs were dry. that stuff is like chewing gum. As I had 2 spare fuel rails with injectors, I installed these, changed fuel in line filter and drained the fuel from the tank, the 750 steel tank has a drain bolt at the bottom. Added new fuel, engine started immy.
    Get a cheapo Liquid Transfer/Siphon Hand Pump and suck the rest out of the tank
    SHOGUN'S TRICKS AND TIPS FOR THE SEVEN SERIES
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  3. #3
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    Thanks for replying shogun.
    After posting, I began my plan of attack.
    I am looking into rigging up a motorcycle fuel pump. Just have to find it first.

    If I can suck all the stale fuel out, I'll then throw in around 5L of fresh fuel then pump that through then suck all that out too. Hopefully that might help clean any potential gum spots.

    Mind you the fuel I have is or was the highest grade premium so it should be kinder to the system than the lower grade yes ??

    I can't see there being any gum inside the injector side because the system is pressurised and no evaporation can occur. Would this be a fair assumption ?

    I Find it weird that it did actually start a few months ago and idled smoothly given it had the same fuel then.
    Can a couple of months apart make the fuel totally null and void ??

    The car is always garaged in a moderate climate so it's not subject to any harshness which could significantly contribute to any excess degradation.

    Question.
    Spark plugs being dry. Would that suggest the fuel isn't getting through the injectors ??
    Should they have been wet instead ?
    Last edited by Mr M3; 01-03-2020 at 08:37 PM.

  4. #4
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    Spark plugs being dry would more likely suggest your injectors are not being fired. Before getting into draining off a tank you should do a few preliminary checks up front. I would confirm injector pulse and ignition first. If you have both of those I would look at fuel supply. If you have neither you need to start looking at crank sensor signal or DME power supply.
    Last edited by SPhilly28; 11-04-2019 at 08:41 PM.
    1995 Japan Spec 318is Slicktop, S54B32, ZF 5MT, Typ 210 3.25:1 FD, CSL Carbon airbox, Supersprint V2 stepped headers, Bimmerworld/Magnaflow 3" race exhaust, CAE shifter, JBR lightweight flywheel, Clutchmasters Kevlar clutch, MCS 2 ways w/ rear coilover, Hyper Coils, Ground control plates, Turner bars, Turner camber links, BW roll center correcting control arms, GC bump steer tie rods, Road Race GT strut bar, Mason Engineering GTR rear brace, Stoptech ST40 brakes, Hawk pads, Apex EC-7 18x10, RE71R 285/30/18, Hard Flares.

    www.isiautomotive.com

  5. #5
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    I would check the fuel pressure with a gauge it's the only accurate way to rule out the fuel pump

  6. #6
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    Thanks for the advice guys.
    I've never really tinkered with this car before and have pretty limited knowledge on the "How To" part.
    If someone can guide me through these preliminary checks this would be great.
    I wouldn't know where to start honestly.
    Would this be covered in the Bentley manual ??

  7. #7
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    Actually, I managed to unearth my copy of the Bentley manual and had a flick through..
    It's as useful as tits on a bull.
    It doesn't cater to Euro Spec M3s sadly..
    Probably the reason why I almost forgot I had one.

    It's ok for general stuff, but the mechanicals are very different to the U.S stuff.

    Does anyone know if there was ever a workshop manual available for Euro Spec E 36 ??
    I've had a look online and found diddly..

  8. #8
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    If your fuel pump turns on in pos 2 then move on from fuel supply for a bit. You need to see if you have injector pulse and ignition spark. Do you have any electrical diag tools? Multimeter, test light, Noid light?
    Last edited by SPhilly28; 11-06-2019 at 11:59 PM.
    1995 Japan Spec 318is Slicktop, S54B32, ZF 5MT, Typ 210 3.25:1 FD, CSL Carbon airbox, Supersprint V2 stepped headers, Bimmerworld/Magnaflow 3" race exhaust, CAE shifter, JBR lightweight flywheel, Clutchmasters Kevlar clutch, MCS 2 ways w/ rear coilover, Hyper Coils, Ground control plates, Turner bars, Turner camber links, BW roll center correcting control arms, GC bump steer tie rods, Road Race GT strut bar, Mason Engineering GTR rear brace, Stoptech ST40 brakes, Hawk pads, Apex EC-7 18x10, RE71R 285/30/18, Hard Flares.

    www.isiautomotive.com

  9. #9
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by SPhilly28 View Post
    If your fuel pump turns on in pos 2 then move on from fuel supply for a bit. You need to see if you have injector pulse and ignition spark. Do you have any electrical diag tools? Multimeter, test light, Noid light?
    I should clarify, my car is stored at my folks place about 40 mins drive from me, so being able to conduct all the necessary tests will have to wait until I get a chance to go there. I don't have the luxury of taking ten steps to the garage.
    For the meantime, I'm trying to get my head around it all by gathering enough info from all you good people so when I get there I can just do the step by step analysis.

    As for the fuel pump, bear in mind, Euro spec cars have many differing parts from the U.S counterparts, including the fuel pump. ( I wished I'd taken a photo). All the info and pics I've seen from U.S cars have all been different, even the relay section in the fuse box is different Arrrgghh !

    When I placed my hand on the top of the fuel pump/sender unit under the back seat and turn to pos II, I do feel a very slight hum. I can't say for sure if it's supposed to feel this way or have a more pronounced buzz.. ??
    It feels like it's on perhaps and then after about 3 seconds I hear a click, then the soft hum stops. It could well be ok, or maybe not. It could be that it's not pumping at the correct pressure. Who Knows.
    I've ordered a fuel pressure test kit and try and figure out where to patch it in when I have the opportunity.

    I am pretty handy as I'm in the Hvac industry and I do have many hand tools including a multimeter etc.. A test light I may have somewhere, (I haven't had to use one of those for years)..
    So i'm guessing the method for testing injectors should be the same for the S50 as is for the S52 ?
    I couldn't even tell you if the wiring harnesses are remotely close. Even the plugs for the injectors.

    There is so little info out there on the S50B32 and Euro Spec E36 it's bewildering.
    If someone out there knows of or has a factory type service manual for this car I'd love to hear from them.

    My apologies guys, that's all I have for now, but all or any info is greatly appreciated.
    Thanks
    Last edited by Mr M3; 11-07-2019 at 02:14 AM.

    99 Anniversary Edition - E36 - ///M3 - Cosmos Black - SMG - Extended Nappa Leather -
    S50B32 - 236 KW - 320 HP

  10. #10
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    I had a euro spec M3 for a number of years, and I've worked on a bunch of others, it is not that much different in electrical, and your troubleshooting is pretty standard across any make/model. I can send you a wiring pdf, and you can get repair instructions at https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/ . Like I said though, if your pump is priming in pos 2, then you need to move on to check fuel/spark. Just pop a connector off a fuel injector and hook up your test light. You should have 12v on one wire and the dme will provide the ground when you crank the engine, making your test light blink

    BTW, a good indy BMW tech could prob diag your problem in under an hour. You could save yourself a lot of frustration.
    1995 Japan Spec 318is Slicktop, S54B32, ZF 5MT, Typ 210 3.25:1 FD, CSL Carbon airbox, Supersprint V2 stepped headers, Bimmerworld/Magnaflow 3" race exhaust, CAE shifter, JBR lightweight flywheel, Clutchmasters Kevlar clutch, MCS 2 ways w/ rear coilover, Hyper Coils, Ground control plates, Turner bars, Turner camber links, BW roll center correcting control arms, GC bump steer tie rods, Road Race GT strut bar, Mason Engineering GTR rear brace, Stoptech ST40 brakes, Hawk pads, Apex EC-7 18x10, RE71R 285/30/18, Hard Flares.

    www.isiautomotive.com

  11. #11
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    SPhilly28, thanks for the info.

    I am hoping to get out there in the coming weeks as I've been so busy at work, even having to work over the weekends lately has left me little time to scratch myself..

    As soon as I have a free weekend I will carry out all the checks and get back to you. I really want to get on top of it as soon as I can and start driving it.
    I'm a patient man, so I'm happy to just take my time instead of having to flat bed it to a service shop.

    I'll update you in time.
    Thanks again.

    99 Anniversary Edition - E36 - ///M3 - Cosmos Black - SMG - Extended Nappa Leather -
    S50B32 - 236 KW - 320 HP

  12. #12
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    SPhilly28..
    I had a thought this morning and I feel I need to share.
    My gut feeling about it not starting may well be an electrical issue.
    I can attest to the fact that even though It has stale fuel in it, it always managed to start and run not that long ago. (Engine would ping under load when driven around the block) but it would at least run. If it started 3 months ago, there should be no reason it couldn't start now.
    I recall having tried bridging out the fuel pump relay N/O contacts to force the pump to drain the old fuel out. This of course didn't work for some reason and I gave up on that idea. After this fail, I recall not trying to start it until when I got back to it just prior to my original post here outlining the "non start" issue.
    So is it possible I've damaged something electrical ie, computer perhaps ?? Maybe I popped a fuse ??
    I was very careful to ensure I bridged out the N/O contacts so I'm baffled at the moment.
    I plan to get to it this weekend to have a poke around.
    Can anybody suggest anything to look at specifically ??
    The dry plugs has me suspicious that it's an electrical (no spark perhaps/ injectors not firing) issue.
    Damn, I feel like such an idiot.
    No good deed goes unpunished that's for sure.
    I hope it's nothing too serious like an onboard computer. What a kick in the teeth that would be...

  13. #13
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    I think I'm going to need a decent scanner...

    If there is a DME or ECU issue, you think a decent scanner will pick it up ??

    Anyone have scanner experience ??
    Last edited by Mr M3; 11-21-2019 at 06:43 PM.

    99 Anniversary Edition - E36 - ///M3 - Cosmos Black - SMG - Extended Nappa Leather -
    S50B32 - 236 KW - 320 HP

  14. #14
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    632 views and nobody has anything ??

    99 Anniversary Edition - E36 - ///M3 - Cosmos Black - SMG - Extended Nappa Leather -
    S50B32 - 236 KW - 320 HP

  15. #15
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    Just a quick update if anyone's interested.

    I purchased a scan tool and was able to verify that the electrical side of things is OK.
    DME and EWS both OK, among all other items.

    I was also able to trigger the fuel injection and the spark plugs to also further verify operation.

    After triggering the fuel injectors, I figured that it would most likely be spraying fuel in ( albeit bad fuel nonetheless), and I thought I'd try and kick it over.
    Surely enough, it started only momentarily then died, leading me to the conclusion that it's most likely the fuel pump.

    I didn't test fuel pressure due to the limited time I had working on the car of which enabled me enough time to drain the tank and the return lines and then fill with around 10 lt of fresh premium fuel. Whilst draining the return fuel line (adjacent to fuel filter), I thought to remove the quick connects on the fuel filter too and surprisingly no fuel came out. It was practically dry.

    During my previous tests, I did confirm 12v at the fuel pump (with ignition on) so this told me that the fuel relay is good and fuse ok.
    My suspicion is that the fuel pump, although it seems like it runs for the first 3 seconds or so, isn't pressurizing enough and so I feel I should just go ahead and replace it as it is still the factory original pump.

    I have tried searching online at various outlets for the correct pump to suit my vehicle but keep hitting road blocks with the misinformation regarding the correct pump for my car.
    Does anyone have a part number for the Euro Spec S50B32 car's pump ??

    Real OEM shows a U.S pump even though I searched specifically for Euro M3. How dumb is that ??

    It's totally the wrong pump.

    I've also searched FCP and have sent a request to them. See what comes back.
    Thanks

    99 Anniversary Edition - E36 - ///M3 - Cosmos Black - SMG - Extended Nappa Leather -
    S50B32 - 236 KW - 320 HP

  16. #16
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    Fuel System Questions

    The S50B32 uses a 5bar fuel pump. The complete sender unit with pump is pn 16142228038. Make sure you are sitting before looking up the price. There is no pn for a separate pump from BMW.

    However, the Bosch 044 pump fits. Much more reasonable price. Just watch out for counterfeits on eBay and the like.

    P.S. realoem.com will have the exact pnís for you car under the archive section. Enter the VIN or go through the menus for build dates, etc.
    Last edited by Gasman M3; 01-02-2020 at 09:52 AM.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gasman M3 View Post
    The S50B32 uses a 5bar fuel pump. The complete sender unit with pump is pn 16142228038. Make sure you are sitting before looking up the price. There is no pn for a separate pump from BMW.

    However, the Bosch 044 pump fits. Much more reasonable price. Just watch out for counterfeits on eBay and the like.

    P.S. realoem.com will have the exact pnís for you car under the archive section. Enter the VIN or go through the menus for build dates, etc.
    Hey Gasman. Thanks for responding.
    I had an inkling that the pump will be expensive, not exactly how much yet though..
    I have contacted FCP Euro and it seems this part number is on back order and ECS state that it's unavailable in their website. I'm going to ask them anyway.
    I took some photos of mine prior to be able to send to suppliers to ensure correct part visually.
    I also checked the part number against Real OEM and although they show the correct part number, the picture is actually incorrect. Looks like a U.S pump assy...
    I'll update when I can.
    Cheers and Happy New Year !
    20191231_122253.jpg20191231_123151.jpg
    Last edited by Mr M3; 01-02-2020 at 01:48 PM.

    99 Anniversary Edition - E36 - ///M3 - Cosmos Black - SMG - Extended Nappa Leather -
    S50B32 - 236 KW - 320 HP

  18. #18
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    This is also an alternative
    https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Genuine-...ery!2148!AU!-1

    The 044 is a little extreme for what I need and I really don't want to go down the road of custom installs etc.

    I have sent an enquiry to ECS, FCP and shudder... my local stealer.
    If nothing comes back I'll just replace the pump itself from the above link and for heaps cheaper too..

    I really don't understand why the fuel pump in a Euro E36 M3 has to be so difficult to obtain. Am I the only one having to jump through hoops just for a damn fuel pump ?
    What are others doing if the original part is no longer available ?
    Have the suppliers even have a substitute for all the M3 owners who will someday need to replace their pump like me ???

    99 Anniversary Edition - E36 - ///M3 - Cosmos Black - SMG - Extended Nappa Leather -
    S50B32 - 236 KW - 320 HP

  19. #19
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    While I'm waiting to hear back from the local stealer and others regarding a new assembly, i contacted a guy on ebay who apparently has just the pump but it is rated at 2-3 bar pressure. Does my car require 5 bar or can it still run on less.
    What does the factory pressure call for ??
    He reckons it's to suit S50B32 but I don't think he's right.
    Can someone help please ?
    This is getting really frustrating..
    Last edited by Mr M3; 01-03-2020 at 08:48 PM.

    99 Anniversary Edition - E36 - ///M3 - Cosmos Black - SMG - Extended Nappa Leather -
    S50B32 - 236 KW - 320 HP

  20. #20
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    Look at it this way...

    The fuel pressure regulator 13531404089 is used for the S50B32 (also the S54 and S65). It is not used in any other E36 engine, M or otherwise. It is 5bar.

    I think using a 2-3bar pump will cause poor running of the engine. The 2-3 bar pump will be physically interchangeable but functionally not.

  21. #21
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    Screenshot_2020-01-04-15-54-16.png

    Ok.
    I'm looking at this particular pump and the seller claims it will handle 5 bar pressure as the regulator is factory set as you said.
    I'm willing to give this a try if you think it passes muster.

    I've enquired to various outlets and it seems the original delivery unit is no longer available which is just unbelievable.
    I wonder if the delivery unit from an E46 S54 will fit the E36. I suspect it will also run 5 bar too.
    Has anyone tried this I wonder ??

    99 Anniversary Edition - E36 - ///M3 - Cosmos Black - SMG - Extended Nappa Leather -
    S50B32 - 236 KW - 320 HP

  22. #22
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    Screenshot_2020-01-04-16-13-33.png

    Also found this one from the same seller.
    I don't really need a high performance pump.
    My car is stock so perhaps this Bosch OE replacement could be exactly what I need yeah ?

    99 Anniversary Edition - E36 - ///M3 - Cosmos Black - SMG - Extended Nappa Leather -
    S50B32 - 236 KW - 320 HP

  23. #23
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    Why not jumper your fuel pump off a battery and see how it runs before trying to rig something up that may not operate correctly
    1995 Japan Spec 318is Slicktop, S54B32, ZF 5MT, Typ 210 3.25:1 FD, CSL Carbon airbox, Supersprint V2 stepped headers, Bimmerworld/Magnaflow 3" race exhaust, CAE shifter, JBR lightweight flywheel, Clutchmasters Kevlar clutch, MCS 2 ways w/ rear coilover, Hyper Coils, Ground control plates, Turner bars, Turner camber links, BW roll center correcting control arms, GC bump steer tie rods, Road Race GT strut bar, Mason Engineering GTR rear brace, Stoptech ST40 brakes, Hawk pads, Apex EC-7 18x10, RE71R 285/30/18, Hard Flares.

    www.isiautomotive.com

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPhilly28 View Post
    Why not jumper your fuel pump off a battery and see how it runs before trying to rig something up that may not operate correctly
    I hear you man. You know I thought of that after I had the damn delivery unit back in.
    Silly of me not to try this, but I didn't want to go through that process of removal again.

    Anyway, an update on parts.
    Pelican Parts came through for me, when FCP, ECS and even my local stealer never. The stealer never even bothered to reply.. go figure..
    ECS couldn't be bothered to even check availability (they're getting lazy over there) and FCP have no clue about Euro spec E36 M3s and wouldn't go the extra inch to help. Hopeless..

    Scheidemann quoted me an astronomical price just for the delivery unit where Pelican came in at just under half !!

    I figured whilst I had shipping costs I added a new fuel pressure regulator, rubber seals and locking rings and removal tool for the lock ring. All up, still cheaper than Scheidemann.
    The old hammer and screw driver trick has roughened up the plastic lock ring so I wanted to do it the right way, replace it and keep it clean.
    My OCD kicking in again lol...

    So, just waiting on some free time to install my new delivery unit and I may as well do the pressure reg seeing I've gone this far. Give the fuel system a nice refresh as It's all still original.
    Stale fuel has been pumped out using an old motorcycle fuel pump I rigged up. I was able to pull fuel from every which way. Tank is very clean too.
    New fuel filter installed and then approx. 10 Lt of fresh premium with stabilizer this time for good measure.

    I'll report back when I can.

    99 Anniversary Edition - E36 - ///M3 - Cosmos Black - SMG - Extended Nappa Leather -
    S50B32 - 236 KW - 320 HP

  25. #25
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    Mission Accomplished !!

    My new delivery unit arrived from (Germany) then from U.S and had time over last weekend to install it.

    20200215_105333.jpg

    20200215_105342.jpg

    New Rubber Seal also

    20200215_105447.jpg

    Special Tool for easy removal and replacement

    20200215_105023.jpg

    All done with new outer lock ring too. Nice !!
    20200215_105651.jpg

    Car started ok after two times at cranking to push the air out.
    Ran fine after this. Warmed it up and then did the oil change.
    Soon, I'll be doing the brake fluid flush, coolant flush, diff and tranny fluid.

    - - - Updated - - -

    99 Anniversary Edition - E36 - ///M3 - Cosmos Black - SMG - Extended Nappa Leather -
    S50B32 - 236 KW - 320 HP

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