Adjusting the stock hand brake so it'll lock

**protomor** · 10-25-2019, 01:55 PM

For those who don't have the $$ to get a hydro, how do you adjust the stock hand brake so it'll lock? Prior to the V8, I made an extension and did my best at adjusting it, but I could never get the wheels to lock. This past weekend, a guy came with a 330 E46 he picked up with a few mods already done to it. One was a hand brake extension. And it locked up great! But the new owner had no idea what the PO did to get it to lock.

I'm thinking, you loosen the handle adjusters to like... half? take off one caliper/rotor and adjust the other side until it locks the wheel at one click. Then pull off that side and put the rotor back on the other side. Repeat. Then adjust at the handle until it's locking happy?

Of course it's hard to make sure it's not dragging. But how else do you ensure it's locked evenly side to side?

**Novablue454** · 10-25-2019, 02:02 PM

I just always checked the condition of the shoes, then used the star adjuster at the wheel to adjust it until it was locked without the lever being up, then backed it off a click or two. Do both sides and then went in the car and tightened the two adjusters on the cables until it was locking at a height I liked.

Although it will never feel like a hydro

**protomor** · 10-25-2019, 02:09 PM

yea that makes more sense.

**tptrsn** · 10-25-2019, 02:27 PM

Originally Posted by Novablue454

I just always checked the condition of the shoes, then used the star adjuster at the wheel to adjust it until it was locked without the lever being up, then backed it off a click or two. Do both sides and then went in the car and tightened the two adjusters on the cables until it was locking at a height I liked.

I agree with all of this. I loosen the interior adjusters on handle end of the cables, and then adjust at the wheels. Then I go back inside for the final adjustment at the handle end of the cables. Works ok with my handle extension, even with the automatic. But it is a long handle movement when you add the leverage from the extension, even with the adjustments fairly tight.

I'm hoping when I finally get around to setting up a hydro that I will be impressed with the additional effectiveness. Lol

**Piner** · 10-30-2019, 10:08 PM

Originally Posted by Novablue454

I just always checked the condition of the shoes, then used the star adjuster at the wheel to adjust it until it was locked without the lever being up, then backed it off a click or two. Do both sides and then went in the car and tightened the two adjusters on the cables until it was locking at a height I liked.

Although it will never feel like a hydro

Exactly what I used to do in my old S52 car, although I never had a handle extension but it still worked pretty well. Ended up with hydro later in that car which I actually didn't like as much probably because I could never seem to get it bled properly.

**protomor** · 10-31-2019, 10:14 AM

The problem with that is if your rotors are older, there will be a lip and the rotor won't slide on an off easily. I actually saw a ford the other day that has the same mechanism but you can rotate the star thingy with the rotor on. Still a poo design for parking breaks but works much better to adjust.

**tptrsn** · 10-31-2019, 10:40 AM

Are you implying that you can't operate the star adjuster with the rotor on the bimmer brakes? If so, you have a pleasant surprise coming, because you can! I think you rotate the rotor around until you can access the adjuster through a lug hole, but it could be the hole that is used to secure the rotor to the hub...

**protomor** · 10-31-2019, 10:47 AM

I love you.

**tptrsn** · 10-31-2019, 11:38 AM

**Novablue454** · 10-31-2019, 12:06 PM

I swear chelsea used to have a video doing it on one of the school of drift cars but I can't find it now.

**protomor** · 11-01-2019, 07:43 AM

If you find it, lmk! I have a hydro on my personal car but I help setup cars and wouldn't mind a locking hand brake on the daily for... reasons? I mean if tptrsn can use a hand brake on an auto... I should be able to too.

**tptrsn** · 11-01-2019, 09:47 AM

Agreed.

However..... Even with my extraextendo e-brake handle, new parking brake shoes, and careful adjustment, the e-brake works just barely sufficiently. I mean it works, but it requires enough effort over a long enough throw on the long handle that it never really feels like there is actual precision to it. For example, I don't feel like it would be responsible of me to tandem closely with my car how it is currently, and that is largely because of the lack of precision I feel from the e-brake. It is very "approximate."

My impression of a good hydro setup is that they are much more accurate, and provide much more predictable control over when and how the rear wheels lock, allowing for better placement of the car with smaller margins.

Having said all of that, I suspect that if guy took a set of old shoes and sent them off to Porterfield or someone like that, they could bond a super aggressive friction material to them that might make all of the difference. But I don't think that would be cheap...

I guess the question is how well that would really work in the end compared to a good hydro setup, and how much less it would cost than a good hydro setup including aggressive rear brake pads that also aren't cheap...

**protomor** · 11-01-2019, 01:57 PM

If you DD your car, a hydro isn't the best option as (unless you weld on your own mounting tabs) all aftermarket adapters require removing the factory handbrake shoes.

**Novablue454** · 11-01-2019, 02:27 PM

Originally Posted by protomor

If you DD your car, a hydro isn't the best option as (unless you weld on your own mounting tabs) all aftermarket adapters require removing the factory handbrake shoes.

inline ftw, been rocking a hydro and stock parking brake for like 5 years now

**tptrsn** · 11-01-2019, 10:58 PM

Originally Posted by protomor

If you DD your car, a hydro isn't the best option as (unless you weld on your own mounting tabs) all aftermarket adapters require removing the factory handbrake shoes.

Come on brother, I drive an auto. No parking brake needed!

Lol

**Substance D** · 11-02-2019, 12:08 AM

I could never get the stock parking brake to lock up like others seem to...I guess 245's and soft rear suspension doesnt help. So I went inline hydro, works ALOT better, but not a perfect solution...dual caliper would be much better for tandem.

**protomor** · 11-02-2019, 07:12 AM

I seem to brake and hand brake often enough that an inline hydro messes me up. Stupid stock ebrake being poo.

**Press22** · 11-02-2019, 10:29 AM

I went dual caliper and had to remove the stock... but honestly don't miss it much.
just throw it in 2nd gear when I park

**tptrsn** · 11-02-2019, 11:06 AM

Originally Posted by protomor

I seem to brake and hand brake often enough that an inline hydro messes me up. Stupid stock ebrake being poo.

This makes me think that maybe it would be worth a bit more effort to see about getting some parking brake shoes relined with some aggressive friction material. I was intending to scrap my parking brakes though, and make a nice custom inline hydro setup over the winter.....

So two questions:

1) Are you able to describe the feel problem that occurs when you are left foot braking in drift, and use the inline hydro (assuming that is the condition where you feel the problem with the inline)?

2) Do you have an aftermarket proportioning valve cranked all the way toward "less braking" for the rear brake? If not, I wonder how that would effect things.. I have mine setup like that for drifting, and for doing John Force burnouts at the drag strip.

2b) Assuming you are still running a power brake booster, do you think that moving to manual brakes would change the situation at all?

**Substance D** · 11-02-2019, 11:47 AM

Originally Posted by tptrsn

This makes me think that maybe it would be worth a bit more effort to see about getting some parking brake shoes relined with some aggressive friction material. I was intending to scrap my parking brakes though, and make a nice custom inline hydro setup over the winter.....

So two questions:

1) Are you able to describe the feel problem that occurs when you are left foot braking in drift, and use the inline hydro (assuming that is the condition where you feel the problem with the inline)?

2) Do you have an aftermarket proportioning valve cranked all the way toward "less braking" for the rear brake? If not, I wonder how that would effect things.. I have mine setup like that for drifting, and for doing John Force burnouts at the drag strip.

2b) Assuming you are still running a power brake booster, do you think that moving to manual brakes would change the situation at all?

When you step on the brakes with an inline, it literally rips the Hydro out of your hand. It is not possible to engage both at the same time.

**tptrsn** · 11-02-2019, 11:54 AM

Originally Posted by Substance D

When you step on the brakes with an inline, it literally rips the Hydro out of your hand. It is not possible to engage both at the same time.

Interesting!! Do you know if that is true also with the proportioning to the rear turned all the way down?

**Substance D** · 11-02-2019, 01:10 PM

Originally Posted by tptrsn

Interesting!! Do you know if that is true also with the proportioning to the rear turned all the way down?

I see what your going for, that would be cool if it worked, but when you hit the brakes, it forces fluid the wrong way thru the hydro, because they are connected. So a proportioning valve would limit the amount of reverse flow, but they usually do not eliminate all flow. I honest have know idea what that would do the hydro, it might just want to stick where its at instead of flinging it forward.

**Novablue454** · 11-02-2019, 02:01 PM

I have a proportioning valve on mine. I don't have it set up totally front biased, but on E46s the proportioning valve is in the ABS so when you remove it all you have to add one. My handle moves some when I press the brake, but it won't rip it out of my hand. I've hit the brakes many times while pulling it and I just get a rock hard brake pedal. Maybe I've just learned to drive around it because there's only been 2-3 times I wanted to use both simultaneously and it's usually when screwing up so bad I'm flying off the track. I mean Chelsea and Vaughn went back to inlines in Pro this year.

**tptrsn** · 11-02-2019, 02:07 PM

Originally Posted by Substance D

. . .when you hit the brakes, it forces fluid the wrong way thru the hydro, because they are connected. So a proportioning valve would limit the amount of reverse flow, but they usually do not eliminate all flow. I honest have know idea what that would do the hydro, it might just want to stick where its at instead of flinging it forward.

Wow, I knew that I didn't really have a full understanding of how these inline hydros work, but this is completely confusing to me! To my way of thinking, the routing of the fluid through the inline hydro would be in from the brake master cylinder into the "reservoir location," and then out of the inline hydro toward the caliper, same direction as the normal fluid flow to the brakes... Is that not correct??

**tptrsn** · 11-02-2019, 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by Novablue454

I have a proportioning valve on mine. I don't have it set up totally front biased, but on E46s the proportioning valve is in the ABS so when you remove it all you have to add one. My handle moves some when I press the brake, but it won't rip it out of my hand. I've hit the brakes many times while pulling it and I just get a rock hard brake pedal. Maybe I've just learned to drive around it because there's only been 2-3 times I wanted to use both simultaneously and it's usually when screwing up so bad I'm flying off the track. I mean Chelsea and Vaughn went back to inlines in Pro this year.

Ok, so this makes perfect sense to me. When the hydro piston is engaged (handle pulled), it should shut off the potential for additional pressure to be added to the rear brakes from the main brake master cylinder..

I have my brakes setup manual with the Chasebays kit, so I'm guessing I wouldn't notice a lot of difference in operation with my proportioning valve set to minimum rear brakes. I assume that setting still allows some pressure to the rears, but I haven't checked.