What Products Do You Use To Get Your Tops Really Black?

[Kram71]

What Products Do You Use To Get Your Tops Really Black?

[JWin]

I just never have it up so the sun never has a chance to fade it

[Kram71]

I read some good things about 303. My M top is very black but my Z4 has some use markings.

[Mr Bingley]

I just never have it up so the sun never has a chance to fade it

+1

[Vintage42]

The original top, and all the OE replacements, are Haartz Twillfast. It is an acrylic fiber that is colored while still liquid before being woven, and cannot be dyed like cotton canvas. But as a woven fabric top, it can be coated. I don't think any coating but black would work well.
http://www.pburch.net/dyeing/dyeblog...117/index.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUR5XfA8sUU
https://www.renovointernational.com/...op-reviver.php

[Kram71]

The original top, and all the OE replacements, are Haartz Twillfast. It is an acrylic fiber that is colored while still liquid before being woven, and cannot be dyed like cotton canvas. But as a woven fabric top, it can be coated. I don't think any coating but black would work well.
http://www.pburch.net/dyeing/dyeblog...117/index.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUR5XfA8sUU
https://www.renovointernational.com/...op-reviver.php

Maybe I should have waited for more answers. Earlier today I bought the 303 fabric convertible kit in part because other z3 and z4 owners posted good reviews. My tops are black. I also bought the Ragtop Horse Hair brush.

[pine1000]

Maybe I should have waited for more answers. Earlier today I bought the 303 fabric convertible kit in part because other z3 and z4 owners posted good reviews. My tops are black. I also bought the Ragtop Horse Hair brush.

I'm pretty sure I have used that on mine. It didn't make the top more black, but the protectant makes it shed water really well and keeps dirt from sticking to the top.

[Kram71]

I'm pretty sure I have used that on mine. It didn't make the top more black, but the protectant makes it shed water really well and keeps dirt from sticking to the top.

303 comes with both a protectant and a cleaner. Hopefully they improve some spots on my top. I will see in a week or two and report back for the next people. I know some use back to black. That is more of a dye. I think its meant for vinyl tops but some with cloth reported positive results.

[JeffPortland]

I've read that the BMW OEM cleaner and/or protection products worked well at making the top look more black while rag top or other had more effective water beading. I haven't tried either myself.

[Vintage42]

... I bought the 303 fabric convertible kit ....

I use a similar kit -- the RaggTopp cleaner and protectorant kit that is recommended by Haartz for the Twillfast fabric.
https://www.haartz.com/cleaning-guid...h-top-cleaning
The protectorants in the kits are water-repellent, so would probably interfere with colored coatings.

[Kram71]

I use a similar kit -- the RaggTopp cleaner and protectorant kit that is recommended by Haartz for the Twillfast fabric.
https://www.haartz.com/cleaning-guid...h-top-cleaning
The protectorants in the kits are water-repellent, so would probably interfere with colored coatings.

I was going to go with the Raggtopp. Years ago the Ragtopp was what a convertible top maker I spoke with sold and recommended. I read a bunch of review and decided to try the 303 kit and the Raggtopp brush. I will see how it goes. If it does not work well I can always go to the Raggtopp later. Did you mask everything off when using RaggTopp?

- - - Updated - - -

I've read that the BMW OEM cleaner and/or protection products worked well at making the top look more black while rag top or other had more effective water beading. I haven't tried either myself.

Do they make the BMW OEM top products anymore? I thought they were discontinued.

[spazzyone]

I used 303 about 3 weeks ago after watching a video on youtube comparing 303 and raggtopp. The water beading was noticeably greater with the 303 so I went with that. Didn't hurt that it's also the cheaper option. Amazon's been getting worse about mailing cleaners to me and the local auto shops don't carry either one but I found it on walmart.com. I ran into it at the local hardware store last week so I'll be buying it from there from now on. UV protection and water beading were most important to me. I had hoped it would darken the top a bit but it didn't. My top is likely the original but it is in pretty good condition. The stitching is sunbleached but the top is still dark.

After using the cleaner and brushing everything out (I used a silicone brush that I use on my furniture to remove dog hair), I washed the rest of the car off and let it dry for a few hours before I masked everything off. I used masking tape and cut up about 7 garbage bags. I lifted the top slightly, taped two to my front windshield and closed it back. I then taped them to my door windows and closed the door. back window as a little tougher. I placed tape on the top of the window with it sticking upwards, stuck the bag to the tape to get it started and then finished taping the rest of the window. I put tape over all the rubber trims and made sure I masked any paint I felt could catch some overspray. Every DIY I read and video I saw said to be sure to mask or you'll be in for some serious effort trying to remove overspray.

It's windy where I live so I sprayed a bit closer than I usually would have because of their warnings. I'm good at painting with rattle cans and I figured I wouldn't have any issues with the spray bottle. I tried to get it as evenly wet as possible and it looked proper while I was done. I used the entire bottle on one application. I wanted to do multiple lighter coats but because I was spraying so close, I needed to soak everything evenly. After I let it dry, at certain angles in the sun, you can see where I sprayed a bit more. It didn't darken my top. I'm going to do a second round to correct it. Honestly, it doesn't bother me much because I have the top down when I drive and there are other wear marks on it. My top would get soaked immediately before in any rain and when I washed the car. If it sits in the rain, it still does but when I washed it the other day, water beads right off when I spray it with a hose. It dries faster now also. It was worth the effort and I'll be having to do it again sometime soon to even it and see how much better the water beading will be with more of the 303.

Here are some photos. In the masked photos, it does not have protectant on it. I will be brushing it on the second round as opposed to spraying to control overspray and for an even application. The photos of the spottiness are exaggerated so you can see them. It's not bad in person. You really have to stare at it and move around to catch the light properly on it to see it. It does bother me, but to anyone else, they probably wouldn't even notice.

1.jpg 2.jpg 3.jpg 4.jpg

[Kram71]

I used 303 about 3 weeks ago after watching a video on youtube comparing 303 and raggtopp. The water beading was noticeably greater with the 303 so I went with that. Didn't hurt that it's also the cheaper option. Amazon's been getting worse about mailing cleaners to me and the local auto shops don't carry either one but I found it on walmart.com. I ran into it at the local hardware store last week so I'll be buying it from there from now on. UV protection and water beading were most important to me. I had hoped it would darken the top a bit but it didn't. My top is likely the original but it is in pretty good condition. The stitching is sunbleached but the top is still dark.

After using the cleaner and brushing everything out (I used a silicone brush that I use on my furniture to remove dog hair), I washed the rest of the car off and let it dry for a few hours before I masked everything off. I used masking tape and cut up about 7 garbage bags. I lifted the top slightly, taped two to my front windshield and closed it back. I then taped them to my door windows and closed the door. back window as a little tougher. I placed tape on the top of the window with it sticking upwards, stuck the bag to the tape to get it started and then finished taping the rest of the window. I put tape over all the rubber trims and made sure I masked any paint I felt could catch some overspray. Every DIY I read and video I saw said to be sure to mask or you'll be in for some serious effort trying to remove overspray.

It's windy where I live so I sprayed a bit closer than I usually would have because of their warnings. I'm good at painting with rattle cans and I figured I wouldn't have any issues with the spray bottle. I tried to get it as evenly wet as possible and it looked proper while I was done. I used the entire bottle on one application. I wanted to do multiple lighter coats but because I was spraying so close, I needed to soak everything evenly. After I let it dry, at certain angles in the sun, you can see where I sprayed a bit more. It didn't darken my top. I'm going to do a second round to correct it. Honestly, it doesn't bother me much because I have the top down when I drive and there are other wear marks on it. My top would get soaked immediately before in any rain and when I washed the car. If it sits in the rain, it still does but when I washed it the other day, water beads right off when I spray it with a hose. It dries faster now also. It was worth the effort and I'll be having to do it again sometime soon to even it and see how much better the water beading will be with more of the 303.

Here are some photos. In the masked photos, it does not have protectant on it. I will be brushing it on the second round as opposed to spraying to control overspray and for an even application. The photos of the spottiness are exaggerated so you can see them. It's not bad in person. You really have to stare at it and move around to catch the light properly on it to see it. It does bother me, but to anyone else, they probably wouldn't even notice.

1.jpg 2.jpg 3.jpg 4.jpg

Your pics helped for sure. I was hoping the 303 would help make it blacker but maybe I have a few dirty spots that will clean up on my Z4. If not maybe I will try some of the dye products. I saw someone turn a tan top black online with the dye products.

[Vintage42]

... I saw someone turn a tan top black online with the dye products.

On a Z3 top, that might not look so good in few years. A dye that would change the color of cotton canvas, is only a coating for Twillfast. Twillfast is dyed when a liquid solution, before being spun into an acrylic fiber and woven into a fabric. The Twillfast fiber cannot absorb dye.

[Vintage42]

... Did you mask everything off when using RaggTopp?...

In all the kits, the repellent should be kept off the glass and paint. I lowered the top and draped an old queen sheet over the cockpit, covering the windshield and side windows. Then I raised the top part way and tucked more sheets between the canvas and the body. Then raised the top fully (don't remember if I latched it or not), and masked the rear window.

[Kram71]

In all the kits, the repellent should be kept off the glass and paint. I lowered the top and draped an old queen sheet over the cockpit, covering the windshield and side windows. Then I raised the top part way and tucked more sheets between the canvas and the body. Then raised the top fully (don't remember if I latched it or not), and masked the rear window.

If the repellent does not change the appearance at all I'm wondering if I will even need it. I'm looking to get some dirty marks (Z4 came with them) out. I was hoping a product would make it all look a uniform black. I will use the cleaner with the new brush then evaluate. My Z cars almost never see rain.

[Kram71]

I used the 303 cleaner. Hoped it would make some mild wear marks black. Looks black when wet but some small wear marks reappear once dry. Not sure I will even bother with the protectant unless I get those wear marks blacker. I suspect only some sort of dye product will do it.

[Kram71]

The original top, and all the OE replacements, are Haartz Twillfast. It is an acrylic fiber that is colored while still liquid before being woven, and cannot be dyed like cotton canvas. But as a woven fabric top, it can be coated. I don't think any coating but black would work well.
http://www.pburch.net/dyeing/dyeblog...117/index.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUR5XfA8sUU
https://www.renovointernational.com/...op-reviver.php

The Protex and Renovo products look interesting. Hmmm.....
By the way my top on Z3 is almost new. Its the Z4 top that shows a little wear.

[Vintage42]

If the repellent does not change the appearance at all I'm wondering if I will even need it...

If the top is old, it will have lost its original water repellency. Water will saturate the fabric (not the fibers but the weave), which will take longer to dry out. Dust and dirt on the top will be carried into the fabric. And the top may not always be completely dry when lowered into the boot.
The protectorants repel water and make it bead up on top of the fabric. The top dries faster, stays cleaner and lasts longer.

[Kram71]

I used 303 about 3 weeks ago after watching a video on youtube comparing 303 and raggtopp. The water beading was noticeably greater with the 303 so I went with that. Didn't hurt that it's also the cheaper option. Amazon's been getting worse about mailing cleaners to me and the local auto shops don't carry either one but I found it on walmart.com. I ran into it at the local hardware store last week so I'll be buying it from there from now on. UV protection and water beading were most important to me. I had hoped it would darken the top a bit but it didn't. My top is likely the original but it is in pretty good condition. The stitching is sunbleached but the top is still dark.

After using the cleaner and brushing everything out (I used a silicone brush that I use on my furniture to remove dog hair), I washed the rest of the car off and let it dry for a few hours before I masked everything off. I used masking tape and cut up about 7 garbage bags. I lifted the top slightly, taped two to my front windshield and closed it back. I then taped them to my door windows and closed the door. back window as a little tougher. I placed tape on the top of the window with it sticking upwards, stuck the bag to the tape to get it started and then finished taping the rest of the window. I put tape over all the rubber trims and made sure I masked any paint I felt could catch some overspray. Every DIY I read and video I saw said to be sure to mask or you'll be in for some serious effort trying to remove overspray.

It's windy where I live so I sprayed a bit closer than I usually would have because of their warnings. I'm good at painting with rattle cans and I figured I wouldn't have any issues with the spray bottle. I tried to get it as evenly wet as possible and it looked proper while I was done. I used the entire bottle on one application. I wanted to do multiple lighter coats but because I was spraying so close, I needed to soak everything evenly. After I let it dry, at certain angles in the sun, you can see where I sprayed a bit more. It didn't darken my top. I'm going to do a second round to correct it. Honestly, it doesn't bother me much because I have the top down when I drive and there are other wear marks on it. My top would get soaked immediately before in any rain and when I washed the car. If it sits in the rain, it still does but when I washed it the other day, water beads right off when I spray it with a hose. It dries faster now also. It was worth the effort and I'll be having to do it again sometime soon to even it and see how much better the water beading will be with more of the 303.

Here are some photos. In the masked photos, it does not have protectant on it. I will be brushing it on the second round as opposed to spraying to control overspray and for an even application. The photos of the spottiness are exaggerated so you can see them. It's not bad in person. You really have to stare at it and move around to catch the light properly on it to see it. It does bother me, but to anyone else, they probably wouldn't even notice.

1.jpg 2.jpg 3.jpg 4.jpg

Do you think spraying it on top and spreading it with a foam brush would work? Or pouring in a bucket and spreading with a foam brush?