Rescued a 2001 750IL with issues...

[TheAngryBear]

2001 750iL DD74441
E65 fan & clutch, E65 headrests, Front First Aid Kit, Ultimate Cup holder

2005 X5 4.8is LE82680
Stock

RIP: 2003 540iA Sport GS56111
H&R front springs, Ultimate Cup Holder, Euro Dash & Armrest, Grom, BavSound Stage1

[SilverIris]

After a much-needed break I'm back and ready to solve this issue once and for all. Rather than hunt and peck like before, here is the complete error log form PA Soft. I also posted about this in a few Facebook E38 groups, but the responses seemed to just be throwing whatever at a wall and hoping it stuck. One suggested a TPS, another said MAF, and the list goes on and on...



# ERRORS DETAILS - DTC(hex)/PARAM(hex)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DME -> Shadow-memory:
6C/42 - Permanent supply
D9/54 - CAN-Timeout EML
D7/54 - CAN-Timeout DME
13/54 - CAN-Timeout EKAT

DME2 -> Shadow-memory:
6C/42 - Permanent supply
D9/54 - CAN-Timeout EML
EC/54 - CAN-Timeout EGS
D8/44 - CAN-Timeout ASC/DSC
D7/54 - CAN-Timeout DME
13/54 - CAN-Timeout EKAT
06/54 - CAN-Timeout IKE

EGS -> 84/C1 - CAN Timeout EML
81/D1 - CAN Timeout DME
61/C1 - V-Batt. supply T. 30 (clearable)

EWS -> 0F/FF - Power on reset

ABS -> 17/FF - Coding Error
61/FF - Steering angle adjustment necessary
1E/FD - Wheel speed sensor rear left, open circuit

LEW -> 01/03 - Terminal 30 defective

SRS -> 03/C0 - Belt tensioner, front passenger
15/A0 - Seat belt buckle, front passenger
1A/90 - Seat occupancy recognition 1 (SBE1)

IKE -> F9/C4 - No CAN message (DMEL4)
8D/D0 - EGS signal line disturbed
FA/C4 - No CAN message (EML1)

LCM -> 17/21 - Wire, dimmer potentiometer, open circuit
Shadow-memory:
59/21 - Transmission failsafe program
5F/21 - Check coolant level

ZKE -> A4/21 - Mirror, potentiometer vertical or cable, driver's door
04/01 - Terminal R wire on the GM III
DC/02 - Steering column angle: communication error
31/21 - Wiper motor blocked, reset contact, wiper relay
40/27 - Interior lights, open circuit
Shadow-memory:
93/3F - Power up from the GM III
83/21 - DWA-Alarm: door contact, driver's door

SZM -> 06/3F - Temperature sensor Seat heating right, Open circuit

BMBT -> 01/1F - Watchdog reset
03/07 - Radio status telegram timeout
16/01 - EEPROM Checksum does not match with programmed value

LRA -> Shadow-memory:
00/00 - Terminal 30

EML -> 53/B8 - CAN not active
87/B8 - Supervising error in initializing
00/00 - Error number 00
00/00 - Error number 00
00/00 - Error number 00
00/00 - Error number 00

EDC -> 00/00 - Steering angle error: difference of sensor angle too large
61/00 - Valve error front: open circuit of both valve wires Middle
70/00 - Error number 70
75/00 - Error number 75
81/00 - Valve error rear: open circuit of both valve wires Middle
90/00 - Error number 90
95/00 - Error number 95


Before this log, it was reporting 4 solenoids as out of range. Now it reports all are fine, coinciding with the specifications from NewTIS. Could this realistically be a failing EGS? If so, how would it be definitively pinned down and based on what data can it be pinned down?

[TheAngryBear]

Looking at all the codes and trying to map them out...
I may send you on a wild goose chase but this seems to make sense to me...
First looking at the codes and relationships, it seems like the EML is the central cause.


There is an error in initialization plus the CAN is not active. According to the documents below, the EML is the source of control for the operations of the DME (I & II) and EGS.
The documents also say to always start diagnostics with the EML.

Perhaps start by validating power to the EML and all pins and connections are good.

Again, just my thoughts reading through the codes and seeing the “overall map”.

Alt CAN description: http://www.st.fmph.uniba.sk/~tamas14...us-Systems.pdf
CAN Structure E38: https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...system/1stcwGG
EML setup: https://www.meeknet.co.uk/E38/Pdf/EMLIIIs.pdf


2001 750iL DD74441
E65 fan & clutch, E65 headrests, Front First Aid Kit, Ultimate Cup holder

2005 X5 4.8is LE82680
Stock

RIP: 2003 540iA Sport GS56111
H&R front springs, Ultimate Cup Holder, Euro Dash & Armrest, Grom, BavSound Stage1

[SilverIris]

Looking at all the codes and trying to map them out...
I may send you on a wild goose chase but this seems to make sense to me...
First looking at the codes and relationships, it seems like the EML is the central cause.


There is an error in initialization plus the CAN is not active. According to the documents below, the EML is the source of control for the operations of the DME (I & II) and EGS.
The documents also say to always start diagnostics with the EML.

Perhaps start by validating power to the EML and all pins and connections are good.

Again, just my thoughts reading through the codes and seeing the “overall map”.

Alt CAN description: http://www.st.fmph.uniba.sk/~tamas14...us-Systems.pdf
CAN Structure E38: https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...system/1stcwGG
EML setup: https://www.meeknet.co.uk/E38/Pdf/EMLIIIs.pdf

That doesn't sound like a wild goose chase. Looking back on the log files from last year, it produced similar EML error codes despite healthy throttle response. At the time, I just ignored it as I wasn't sure what was going on about it. Here is what PA Soft produced on December 11 last year:

EGS -> 80/11 - CAN-Bus check
03/06 - Pressure controller EDS 3
02/06 - Pressure controller EDS 2
01/06 - Pressure controller EDS 1
11/04 - Solenoid valve 2

IKE -> F0/84 - CAN-bus off
F4/84 - No CAN message
BF/88 - Internal fault, EEPROM checksum, coding incorrect/incomplete
FA/C4 - No CAN message (EML1)
F6/84 - No CAN message (DMER1)

LCM -> 17/01 - Wire, dimmer potentiometer, open circuit
28/02 - Thermal oil-level sensor defect
Shadow-memory:
58/02 - Engine failsafe program
59/26 - Transmission failsafe program
5F/21 - Check coolant level
94/04 - Rear left fog light
95/04 - Rear right fog light

EML -> 53/B8 - CAN not active
87/B8 - Supervising error in initializing
00/00 - Error number 00
00/00 - Error number 00
00/00 - Error number 00
00/00 - Error number 00

When researching 00/00 - Error number 00 , it seems to want to go straight into Bobville (brings up random unrelated results). What exactly does this error code mean? It was due to this information that I opened up the transmission to take a look at the 4 solenoids mentioned. Now that it is producing no errors related to solenoids, is it appropriate to reinstall the pan and fill it back up now?

[TheAngryBear]

I think you are fine with the refill and should proceed.

I have no clue on the 00/00. I suspect that may be a flag for an internal software error? Effectively a “third party programming issue”? Maybe this is related to the EEPROM / BS / ZKE issues? If the systems aren’t “matched” (or coded) then it is trying to communicate incorrectly?

Feel like I am convincing myself vs decipher...


2001 750iL DD74441
E65 fan & clutch, E65 headrests, Front First Aid Kit, Ultimate Cup holder

2005 X5 4.8is LE82680
Stock

RIP: 2003 540iA Sport GS56111
H&R front springs, Ultimate Cup Holder, Euro Dash & Armrest, Grom, BavSound Stage1

[SilverIris]

I think you are fine with the refill and should proceed.

I have no clue on the 00/00. I suspect that may be a flag for an internal software error? Effectively a “third party programming issue”? Maybe this is related to the EEPROM / BS / ZKE issues? If the systems aren’t “matched” (or coded) then it is trying to communicate incorrectly?

Feel like I am convincing myself vs decipher...

Okay I'll do that. Now to find a needle in a haystack on the unicorn farm to give this a proper dipstick tube. A flush mount M24x1.5 banjo adapter with an 06an flare. Wish me luck...

As for the 00/00, I'd say George Carlin said it best here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ErNzuoPsw0

[SilverIris]

TheAngryBear, So after much swearing to reach its connector (under 200+ wires...), I unplugged the EML, booted up PA soft and took a log. Still in Failsafe. Cleared the EGS, IKE and LCM Errors and it knee-jerks immediately back into Failsafe again. So it's NOT the EML doing it.

Put it back together as best I can (plastic trim bit on the separator won't seat properly). Log is as follows:

DME -> Shadow-memory:
6C/42 - Permanent supply
D9/54 - CAN-Timeout EML
D7/54 - CAN-Timeout DME
13/54 - CAN-Timeout EKAT

DME2 -> Shadow-memory:
6C/42 - Permanent supply
D9/54 - CAN-Timeout EML
EC/54 - CAN-Timeout EGS
D8/44 - CAN-Timeout ASC/DSC
D7/54 - CAN-Timeout DME
13/54 - CAN-Timeout EKAT
06/54 - CAN-Timeout IKE

EGS -> 84/C1 - CAN Timeout EML
81/D1 - CAN Timeout DME
61/C1 - V-Batt. supply T. 30

EWS -> 0F/FF - Power on reset

ABS -> 17/FF - Coding Error
61/FF - Steering angle adjustment necessary
1E/FC - Wheel speed sensor rear left, open circuit

LEW -> 01/03 - Terminal 30 defective

SRS -> 03/C0 - Belt tensioner, front passenger
15/A0 - Seat belt buckle, front passenger
1A/90 - Seat occupancy recognition 1 (SBE1)

IKE -> F9/C4 - No CAN message (DMEL4)
FA/C4 - No CAN message (EML1)
8D/D0 - EGS signal line disturbed

LCM -> 17/01 - Wire, dimmer potentiometer, open circuit
Shadow-memory:
59/21 - Transmission failsafe program
5F/21 - Check coolant level

ZKE -> A4/21 - Mirror, potentiometer vertical or cable, driver's door
04/01 - Terminal R wire on the GM III
DC/02 - Steering column angle: communication error
31/21 - Wiper motor blocked, reset contact, wiper relay
40/07 - Interior lights, open circuit
Shadow-memory:
93/3F - Power up from the GM III
83/21 - DWA-Alarm: door contact, driver's door

SZM -> 06/3F - Temperature sensor Seat heating right, Open circuit

BMBT -> 01/1F - Watchdog reset
03/07 - Radio status telegram timeout
16/01 - EEPROM Checksum does not match with programmed value

LRA -> Shadow-memory:
00/00 - Terminal 30

EDC -> 00/00 - Steering angle error: difference of sensor angle too large
61/00 - Valve error front: open circuit of both valve wires Middle
70/00 - Error number 70
75/00 - Error number 75
81/00 - Valve error rear: open circuit of both valve wires Middle
90/00 - Error number 90
95/00 - Error number 95

I need a drink now...

[TheAngryBear]

Damn...
Only thing I can think of (based on codes and my cascade theory) is that the LEW, ABS, or EGS is causing it.
Pulling The EGS would make it inop but could rule it out....
I would probably try pulling the ABS module... easiest.
Only other thing I can think of is to ensure all the grounds, especially at the power distribution center, are good...
Then I have no more schlitz...


2001 750iL DD74441
E65 fan & clutch, E65 headrests, Front First Aid Kit, Ultimate Cup holder

2005 X5 4.8is LE82680
Stock

RIP: 2003 540iA Sport GS56111
H&R front springs, Ultimate Cup Holder, Euro Dash & Armrest, Grom, BavSound Stage1

[SilverIris]

Damn...
Only thing I can think of (based on codes and my cascade theory) is that the LEW, ABS, or EGS is causing it.
Pulling The EGS would make it inop but could rule it out....
I would probably try pulling the ABS module... easiest.
Only other thing I can think of is to ensure all the grounds, especially at the power distribution center, are good...
Then I have no more schlitz...

I've been thinking about doing this for awhile now, and finally had a chance to get to it. Right now, I'm compiling multiple data logs into one chart that does exactly what you suggested, but to a comprehensive degree. Unplug a device, run a log, then reconnect. Repeat for the next device and so on. Basically playing "One of these thing is not like the others" for the entire car.

So far, I've only tackled both DMEs and the EGS, but it's starting to paint the picture we're trying to see. One thing I noticed is that with the EGS unplugged, the IKE is still reporting EGS Signal line disturbed and the LCM is still reporting Trans Failsafe in Shadow Memory too. So we're on the right track, it's just going to require a few days of datalogging and compiling to compare all the data side by side.

Anyway, I still have a ton of work to do on it but I'll report back once I have it all put together

7:38PM Update:
So I tried running another log with the IKE Cluster disconnected. PA Soft couldn't connect with either the IKE (duh...) or EWS and wouldn't scan the car as a result (anti-theft response seems likely here). Understandable, so I moved onto the ABS/DSC module and pulled its connector, then ran another log...

Bingo!
The ABS/DSC system was concealing what was actually going on with the EML Throttle body controller.

IKE>>>8D/D0 - EGS signal line disturbed
FA/C4 - No CAN message (EML1)
F9/C4 - No CAN message (DMEL4)
F6/44 - No CAN message (DMER1)
FB/44 - No CAN message (EGS1)

EML -> 50/A8 - EML - CAN error sending data
51/A8 - DME_R2, DME_L2, EGS, ASC CAN - error receiving data
52/B8 - DME_R1, DME_L1, CAN error receiving data or wrong version of CAN
7D/B8 - Switching idling-control or reserve-value
53/B8 - CAN not active
87/B8 - Supervising error in initializing

AngryBear, Timm, what are your thoughts on this?

[SilverIris]

[TheAngryBear]

Got caught depending on notifications (which edits don’t do)... let me chew on this...


2001 750iL DD74441
E65 fan & clutch, E65 headrests, Front First Aid Kit, Ultimate Cup holder

2005 X5 4.8is LE82680
Stock

RIP: 2003 540iA Sport GS56111
H&R front springs, Ultimate Cup Holder, Euro Dash & Armrest, Grom, BavSound Stage1

[TheAngryBear]

So going back through the entire thread (forgot how much is here), recall that all this started with water intrusion. That destroyed the EKAT, the junctions, and coupled with the LEW caused issues. Plus there is the coding with the IKE and LCM.
So a few questions:
1) are the rebuilt systems (EKAT etc) still good?
2) were the coding elements ever corrected?
3) any more water intrusion?
4) did you check the ground points by the junction for corrosion? Although they may have been good then, perhaps they have further degraded over time?

Just trying to cover some of the other possibilities that came up earlier and were solved.

Still thinking on the codes and reductions.


2001 750iL DD74441
E65 fan & clutch, E65 headrests, Front First Aid Kit, Ultimate Cup holder

2005 X5 4.8is LE82680
Stock

RIP: 2003 540iA Sport GS56111
H&R front springs, Ultimate Cup Holder, Euro Dash & Armrest, Grom, BavSound Stage1

[SilverIris]

1. The EKAT was not replaced, only relocated, so it is not a factor in this. The new DIY fuse box is known good, so nothing to worry about there
2. No coding issues were corrected, such as the IKE's odometer/VIN issue
3. Since I pulled the interior apart last time and put in the DIY fuse box and fixed the sunroof drains, the car has been inside the entire time. Before then, it was outside and the leaking sunroof drains allowed water intrusion.
4. I cannot recall if I checked the grounds under the seat or not, so it would be a logical place to start. Thankfully, it's pretty easy to access them with the seat flopped back. It figures, the ONE TIME I break my own rule about grounds, it comes back to bite me in the rear...

On a related note about grounds, I checked and found the EGS, DMEs and EML system are all grounded on the strut tower near the Diagnosis Connector. Nothing appears out of the ordinary here, so I don't see how it would throw a monkey wrench into the mix.

What are DME_R2, DME_L2, DME_R1 and DME_L1? I can't seem to find a definition on these anywhere.

[TheAngryBear]

I am trying to figure that out myself...
Asked one of the other experts to see if he knows.


2001 750iL DD74441
E65 fan & clutch, E65 headrests, Front First Aid Kit, Ultimate Cup holder

2005 X5 4.8is LE82680
Stock

RIP: 2003 540iA Sport GS56111
H&R front springs, Ultimate Cup Holder, Euro Dash & Armrest, Grom, BavSound Stage1

[SilverIris]

I am trying to figure that out myself...
Asked one of the other experts to see if he knows.

Hopefully we'll hear back soon. If I knew what signal(s) DME_R1/2 and DME_L1/2 represented, I could deduce the specific failure mode and correct it. From my understanding, these work similarly to the 1989+ RX-7 Oil Metering Pump with a stepper motor and position feedback sensor (akin to a TPS). Those work by the ECU sending "go to this position" signals to the stepper motor via its 4 wires and receiving back "it's done" 0-5v signal back on the position signal wire. Since the ECU knows what to expect back from the position signal wire, it's a fairly reliably system that can diagnose itself.

[Timm]

I think around a month ago I said: something on the CANBus lines was causing the problem, and the DSC controller was the most likely candidate!

[SilverIris]

I think around a month ago I said: something on the CANBus lines was causing the problem, and the DSC controller was the most likely candidate!

Good point Timm, the ABS/DSC was concealing the EML Errors. Whenever I dig into this, it produces unresolved threads like this one:
https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...Throttle-Issue



Makes me wonder if these cars are cursed. Should I call for an exorcism?

[hmmurdock]

makes me wonder if these cars are cursed. Should i call for an exorcism?

demons out!

[TheAngryBear]

4. I cannot recall if I checked the grounds under the seat or not, so it would be a logical place to start. Thankfully, it's pretty easy to access them with the seat flopped back. It figures, the ONE TIME I break my own rule about grounds, it comes back to bite me in the rear...

On a related note about grounds, I checked and found the EGS, DMEs and EML system are all grounded on the strut tower near the Diagnosis Connector. Nothing appears out of the ordinary here, so I don't see how it would throw a monkey wrench into the mix.

What are DME_R2, DME_L2, DME_R1 and DME_L1? I can't seem to find a definition on these anywhere.

As far as I can tell, the DMER2 etc are the specific signal/messages it is expecting. So if we had a map of those we could see exactly what is at issue. I can’t find them but maybe an expert like DUDMD might? Worth an email?

IKE>>>8D/D0 - EGS signal line disturbed
FA/C4 - No CAN message (EML1)
F9/C4 - No CAN message (DMEL4)
F6/44 - No CAN message (DMER1)
FB/44 - No CAN message (EGS1)

EML -> 50/A8 - EML - CAN error sending data
51/A8 - DME_R2, DME_L2, EGS, ASC CAN - error receiving data
52/B8 - DME_R1, DME_L1, CAN error receiving data or wrong version of CAN
7D/B8 - Switching idling-control or reserve-value
53/B8 - CAN not active
87/B8 - Supervising error in initializing

So looking over this and trying to decipher...
Seems like the EML is having issues sending messages and recognizing the ones it is receiving. The IKE just isn’t getting anything.

I am trying to find a source document to back me up but:
1. I seem to recall the LCM has a central code that lets every module “know” what is there and what “language version” to use. It might be the IKE though? Hence why I am trying to find a source document. Worst case scenario (?) is that the IKE (that we know was replaced) has a different code than the LCM (if I am right on that) and thus the system isn’t able to communicate properly.

2. Another thought is that the EML isn’t initializing properly and the CAN isn’t setting. This could (?) be a synch issue (?) and it needs to be reset... a lot less likely given the weight of information otherwise.

One thing I noticed is that with the EGS unplugged, the IKE is still reporting EGS Signal line disturbed and the LCM is still reporting Trans Failsafe in Shadow Memory too.

This has me thinking it is an IKE error. Maybe a faulty connection or bad board? I can see the connection but the board failing would be rather odd...

Best I can do for now...


2001 750iL DD74441
E65 fan & clutch, E65 headrests, Front First Aid Kit, Ultimate Cup holder

2005 X5 4.8is LE82680
Stock

RIP: 2003 540iA Sport GS56111
H&R front springs, Ultimate Cup Holder, Euro Dash & Armrest, Grom, BavSound Stage1

[SilverIris]

Here's all of the data I logged in a tidy Word document, by removing one device at a time and running a log in PA soft. Each column represents the device that was unplugged. First is none, second is DME1, third is DME2, etc. Rows represent what each device reports back in PA Soft.

Useful data is in bold, really important stuff is highlighted in yellow. Also, I put PA Soft's description of each error code at the bottom.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1L_9...ew?usp=sharing

[SilverIris]

So I messages Masbury who had a similar EML issue and this is what he suggested:

Boy, are you in for a treat!

DK's - Short for some German words that translate to the electronic throttles. Follow the intakes from the air filter boxes up past the MAF's to the black thing with the cable attached to it, just in from of the elbow that goes into your intake manifolds. Have good sized springs on them. The DK's. They are controlled by a combination (I think) of the EML and the throttle position sensor on the firewall behind the gas pedal. There is a syncing procedure - see next...

"If you mean re-sync the EML's, I already did that (I think). That was first on my list though I forgot to mention that (apologies). Disconnect batteries (you have 2, I think. I have one) (after waiting 16 minutes for it to go to sleep), let stand for an hour, re-connect, idle 5 minutes, 1st gear, up to 5000+ rpm, back to idle, rinse and repeat 2 more times, idle 5 minutes - Voila!"

The above is from my second post from that original thread that got you fired up to begin with. So, literally find a deserted street, put it in first gear, WOT to 5K plus a little, say 5100 rpm, let off back to idle. Do it 2 more times, park by the side of the road or stop in a parking lot and then let it idle for 5 minutes. Shut it off and restart, should run correctly. Emphasis on the word should (It's a BMW and a V12). This is known in various circles as "The Magic Reset" or some BS like that. It's worked on all my BMW V12's. Nobody really knows how or why this works, but it does (usually).

Let me know

Who else is familiar with this "Magic Reset"? It almost sounds like Konami Code. And now Iris needs new brakes. Passenger front (Right front) started dragging and it completely ATE the pads. Pulled the wheel off and the rotor is flaking apart in the vents. Caliper is original, and I'd imagine the driver's side isn't too far behind it. Today is NOT a good day.

Anyway Timm, AngryBear, what do you think about all of this? One can't exactly rebuild calipers in freezing temperatures in a driveway and Marina needs answers to get her out of the garage yesterday!

[Timm]

That's the correct procedure for the M70 engine but not for the M73 which uses stepper motors rather than DC motors.....

[TheAngryBear]

Is the M73 the following?
Seem to recall success with this when replacing my MAFs and having issues

1. Turn ignition to position 2, wait 3-5 seconds
2. Push the throttle pedal all the way down and activate kick down switch, hold it for 3-5 seconds
3. Let off the pedal completely, wait 3-5 seconds
4. Push the throttle pedal all the way down and activate kick down switch, hold it for 3-5 seconds
5. Let off the pedal completely, wait 3-5 seconds
6. Turn off ignition, wait at least 10 seconds.


2001 750iL DD74441
E65 fan & clutch, E65 headrests, Front First Aid Kit, Ultimate Cup holder

2005 X5 4.8is LE82680
Stock

RIP: 2003 540iA Sport GS56111
H&R front springs, Ultimate Cup Holder, Euro Dash & Armrest, Grom, BavSound Stage1

[Timm]

It is.....

[CPHES]

That sounds right. Is there a downside to this ( any way of making it worse? )