The Dunklenator (Poor Man's Z8 Project)

[rf900rkw]

Do note the lack of mention of driving it off of the dyno.

[BimmerBreaker]

Haha yes - question is - did it make the power numbers you were expecting before it broke down?
Driven on, towed off

And glad to hear cyberman

Btw if images arent loading you can read the director's cut of that post here:
https://www.ascfabrics.com/post/z3v8pt3

[BimmerBreaker]

The plot thickens...

Started a little research today into the fuel supply for the N62. It is a single inlet at the fuel rail so I assumed it was close to how the M54 system worked. As it ends up, it is not. The M54 fuel filter has an inlet feeding into the back of it from the fuel pump, the return outlet out the back and the front has the outlet to the engine as well as the FPR integrated into fuel filter with a barb for the vacuum. So rear has fuel in and fuel out and front has fuel out and a vacuum barb



The E53 N62 has a single fuel inlet in the rear and a vacuum connecton in the rear. It also has a vacuum connection in the front though as well as the single outlet to the engine. So one inlet in the rear and a vacuum, and one outlet at the front with another vacuum



The E53 with N62 uses same type of relay from DME to power the fuel pump as the later Z3's, so I dont think its any kind of fancy newer style fuel pump. I will be digging into the diagrams to see what is going on. Maybe the DME simply lowers the pump voltage?

I know the reasoning for the changes in fuel filter systems was to decrease the running time of the pump, in order to decrease the formation of fuel vapors. M52 ran fuel all the way to engine and out to a return, which heated it a lot. M54 regulated fuel pressure at the filter so it only pumped from tank to filter and back, heating it less. Later (non-Z3) models ran a returnless system in which the pump only supplies the required amount of fuel to the filter. Im not entirely sure how this was accomplished. I was under the impression they moved to PWM fuel pumps. Maybe not... Or is that what the EKP timed fuel pump relay does?

Sounds like I will be learning more about fuel systems soon...

EDIT:
I did some more research. Some digging, sleuthing, dividing and conquering, as well as some general detective work and found the E65 fuel filter was used on the N62 models AND M54 models (in Europe, the E65 was available with the M54). That filter is below... it looked visually identical to the Z3 M54 as far as inlet/outlet and vacuum hookups



I couldn't tell for sure if the two connections at the rear were for vacuum or fuel though, so I looked up the TIS procedure for replacing the E65 fuel filter. It confirms the rear has two fuel lines - one an inlet, one an outlet. So I will convert to the Z3 M54 fuel system but use the E65 fuel filter instead of the OE filter. I will also be removing the fuel pump and running an E53 N62 fuel pump canister in it's place, I believe it should fit - if not, I will find a larger pump that fits and is suitable flow-rate wise (whatever those M62/S62 guys are using should be fine)

Truth is, I can probably run it all on stock Z3 M54 fuel filter stuff (with a larger pump) - because it all operates on the 3.5 bar pressure regulator. But I like the "OEM-ness" of running the chassis/engine correct filter, so I will run the E65 filter

Although... now that I think about it more... if the E65 runs the same fuel filter on an N62 E65 as they do an M54 E65, then logically it should be fine to run the Z3 M54 fuel filter on an N62? I've got some pondering to do

In the meantime, now on to find that small alternator...

[rf900rkw]

Just use the M54 system. Both the M54 and the N62 run at a constant 3.5b. The only difference is the regulator is on the fuel filter in the Z3, and in the pump assembly on the X5.

Do note that is not a vacuum line. It is a vent line. It does not connect to manifold vacuum, it goes to a "safe" vent point.

[BimmerBreaker]

Yup, thats where I got to in the end. I probably could have just asked you and saved an hour but hey, now I know a bit more about fuel systems. Thinking ill just use the 3.0 Z3 filter - but a bigger pump in the tank...

Was just looking up where the hookup for the FPR vacuum line goes on the engine. As usual RealOEM is very unclear but TIS also isnt clear in this case. I believe its the small line sitting off the nipple on the main intake elbow going to TB. Ill take a closer look at a stock E65 next time I can and follow that line to be sure, in any case, im not quite there yet. Trying to wrap up loose ends as I go though... So later its just a matter of putting things together

Ran out of DME pins so the rest of the wiring will have to wait. Waiting on shifter linkage to make sure it fits in trans tunnel before finalizing engine location and then getting engine mounts made. I will probably start swapping M54 fuel system stuff on in the meantime. I still have my parts car 3.0i Z3 which is rather handy (not sure those fuel lines are still good, been dragged up my trailer without wheels on... So we will see)

- - - Updated - - -

Man, the more I learn, the less I know

Shoulda stopped learning when I was 18 and knew everything

[rf900rkw]

on engines through the E36 range, the fuel pressure regulator was vented to manifold vacuum, making fuel pressure across the injector a constant. Starting with the M52TU they vent the FPR to atmospheric pressure. Constant pressure relative to the atmosphere, but variable across the injector. They don't just let it dangle in the air, though. On the M52TU it is connected to the back of the CCV such that it's at the same pressure as the crankcase. M54 they just ran it to the "F" connector on the intake boot. The M62TU did both ways, depending on year/model.


For the time being, don't worry about it. Just leave it open until you know where you want to plumb in.

[BimmerBreaker]

Sounds good!

BTW - anyone know how to find PINS for various harnesses?

I need more DME ones and another off the IVM harness and the female for the injector harness ground. I cant find them in RealOEM - I can find a page with a ton of pins but never know which is which...

The DME ones I think I stumbled into... But would like the others. Worst case Ill have 3 solder joints... I just prefer to crimp terminals like OE

[BimmerBreaker]

Man, what have I gotten myself into...

Currently staring at the extra fuse holders, IVM and power supply brick Ill be using to get all this swap to work

One of the main reasons I started this swap is I thought itd be simple, wiring-wise. How wrong I was. (Also, WHY did I think that????) Initially I anticipated adjusting about 14 pins plus the electronic pedal. I remember seeing "IVM" in the X5 pinout and thinking... Eh, its just something...ill find a way to bypass it.

I am currently at... 43 pins adjusted? Id have to check my notes. Still haven't wired in the electric pedal yet either. Lots of fun, regardless. I should have gone to some sort of technical school though. With no formal training in reading wiring diagrams it can be a little frustrating trying to figure out where everything goes. I still get there, just much slower...

Anyways. Today was a big day as far as figuring wiring out but didn't do much else. Cant get engine out until customer picks up the M52TU - rescheduled for tomorrow as he couldnt make it today. So I focussed on wrapping up some loose ends with the wiring. There was one wire I wasnt sure about in the end - I know it goes to a fuse, but no idea what amperage. The diagram is kind of confusing and incomplete... Ive asked people smarter than myself and they cant find it either.

However... The IVM is shared with other models and should be the same part for all (doesnt even need coding). On another model's diagram I saw it going to a 30a fuse, on another a 50a. Will try with a 30a at first - I have that fuse set in it's own separate fuseholder. That way I can easily swap out as needed, if its blowing the 30a fuse

Then a ground... Wire it all in... Need to wait on DME terminals to arrive first. But at least I can kind of mentally move on from the wiring... At least for now
Pictures etc soon

[BimmerBreaker]

'I raised the engine to the correct spot and saw where the steering shaft connects... finally



Trans fitment is very tight!



Preparing to notch the framerail for the alternator



Needed a 100amp fuse and a 50amp fuse... found this in a parts car



Also had to trace the starter signal from the EWS... Success!



Needed a normal fuseholder too...



Laying it all out...



Roughly mocked up in place on the DME bracket



I need my DME pins to get here to finish the job! I did eventually find all the DME pins I needed except the round male ones but I don't actually *need* those and didn't look too hard for em. But wiring is all figured out now. Or should be. So I hope!

I riv-nutted the framerails as well





Sure looks good!!!

[rf900rkw]

Man, what have I gotten myself into...

Congratulations, that realization normally takes many months to sink in. Swapping in a motor with a carb and points is easy. Going to a newer generation of electronics can be quite difficult. Hopefully your tuner is able to not only bypass the anti-theft, but able to turn off most of the CAN input requirements.

[328 Power 04]

Lol, don't scare him more!



The ME9.2 DME is compatible with ews3, so there may be some luck.

[PbFut]

Be sure you have plenty room for that steering shaft. It looks too close in the photo. The motor will move around a lot more than you think. Even if you use solid mounts. If you must, use 3 ujoints and some D rod to bend the shaft around the exhaust. It is a simple fabrication. You don't want the motor torquing over and locking up the shaft. I had to do that on the LS swap until there was a set of headers came on the market routing the primaries in a way that the shaft passed through the assembly. Good luck with all those wires. Street use makes it so much harder.

[BimmerBreaker]

Congratulations, that realization normally takes many months to sink in. Swapping in a motor with a carb and points is easy. Going to a newer generation of electronics can be quite difficult. Hopefully your tuner is able to not only bypass the anti-theft, but able to turn off most of the CAN input requirements.

Yay - I realized I am an idiot in over my head quickly, rather than it taking months

I am hoping the CAN stuff isn't too big of an issue, though I may need to add some other sort of modue in-line - or that 120ohm resistor. Not really sure. Now that I think about it, I can test both CAN lines with the info in the TIS, to at least make sure both are "complete" as that is my main concern personally. But I know most of the modules hanging off the DME CAN line were optional features (I'd have to dig back into the diagrams to see exactly what)... so I'm hoping with them not present it doesn't affect the DME CAN line

My tuner is amazing though, very intelligent, so knowledgeable. Helpful too. A 10/10 kind of guy. I have full faith in him to figure this out

edit: Worst case though, if he can't, there are established guys on the market with info on stuff like EWS/CAS delete, I think they may also know how to remove certain CAN inputs out of the DME but not sure about that as haven't asked. Didn't even consider that was a possible issue until doing the wiring diagram for the IVM. But I know the DMTL and SAP can easily be coded out by those guys and EWS/CAS can be deleted/bypassed too.

Lol, don't scare him more!



The ME9.2 DME is compatible with ews3, so there may be some luck.

Yeah don't scare me Randy... I'm already having enough occasional panic attacks about this as it is!

Be sure you have plenty room for that steering shaft. It looks too close in the photo. The motor will move around a lot more than you think. Even if you use solid mounts. If you must, use 3 ujoints and some D rod to bend the shaft around the exhaust. It is a simple fabrication. You don't want the motor torquing over and locking up the shaft. I had to do that on the LS swap until there was a set of headers came on the market routing the primaries in a way that the shaft passed through the assembly. Good luck with all those wires. Street use makes it so much harder.

Yup I know - I guess I forgot to address it directly here (on my website write-up I went into more detail), but I'm clearancing everything to account for engine movement and engine mounts sagging over time. Across from the alternator I am notching the framerail a little bit around where the timing chain guide bolt sits, as it rubs the framerail a little bit when engine isnt at it's full height.

I have some ideas to possibly address the steering shaft linkage without adding another U-joint if it's close. I need to get subframe mocked in it's final place before I can spend too much time fiddling with the steering shaft though. From some angles it looked like simply hitting the headers with a hammer at the cylinder 8 runner a little bit would provide adequete clearance (a little over 1"). Not my preferred method but, if it works and it works somewhat simply... why not. I will say - the clearance looks much better in person, though obviously it isn't installed and engine isn't in it's 100% final position yet so that doesn't really mean anything

And yes... the desire to make it streetable does add another layer of complication


...Today the M52TU engine should finally be leaving. Then I can have use of my engine crane again to pluck this engine out and clearance the required areas to get the engine fully installed with accessories (I should probably find and test fit an N62 power steering pump at some point, eh?). There will be at least two rounds of fabrication - the initial round with engine out, notching the frame rail and subframe. Then round two will be once the engine is place, building the engine mounts

[rf900rkw]

The physical layer is one thing. Software requirements of what messages are expected from what modules is quite another. The DME might just throw a hissy and not eat it's oatmeal if it can't find it's MTV on the can bus. Seriously. I have a 535 here that has limited engine power, trans and ABS lights on, and a half dozen other modules crying and screaming at the sky because the EMF isn't broadcasting the parking brake status.

[BimmerBreaker]

The physical layer is one thing. Software requirements of what messages are expected from what modules is quite another. The DME might just throw a hissy and not eat it's oatmeal if it can't find it's MTV on the can bus. Seriously. I have a 535 here that has limited engine power, trans and ABS lights on, and a half dozen other modules crying and screaming at the sky because the EMF isn't broadcasting the parking brake status.

Well then what do you think I should do - just give up before I notch the frame rail and make permanent modifications? I don't know enough about the tuning requirements personally to be able to confidently know that this stuff WON'T be an issue later and I would feel pretty dumb doing all the work to get everything in and fit in place, for it to not be able to run because I don't have some module or something... everything I've done so far (except the wiring, which can be easily undone since I labelled everything I touched) would also apply to an M62 or S62... technically some people have modified N62 oil pans to fit under those, so I wouldn't be too far off from making that work, I have the parts with this N62

On the IKE CAN line I do have ABS, IKE, Steering angle sensor (I believe, at least, I've been under my M54 car a lot and it had the steering angle sensor) and do NOT have the adaptive headlights (which was optional on the E53 anyways)

On the DME CAN line I do have the... DME. I do not have the transmission control unit or air suspension control unit. There is also a "RPM Rate sensor" and "Control unit, transfer box" which I do not have. The RPM rate sensor I don't know what it is... there is a sensor missing out of the transmission. Maybe thats related. The Control unit for transfer box i don't think is the end of the world as other models didn't have that.

So I am missing: adaptive headlights, transmission control unit, air suspension control unit, RPM rate sensor and Transfer box control unit. It doesn't seem that bad since most of those were optional either on this chassis or not even available on other cars with the N62. I guess it wouldn't hurt to research what the RPM rate sensor is/does...

edit: A quick google indicates the RPM Rate sensor may be the yaw sensor under the driver's seat? If so, it's interesting because isn't that part of ABS, but the E53 CAN line has it on the DME side of things. Hmm

another edit: Some diagrams for the E53 N62 shows the RPM rate sensor (also called lateral acceleration sensor) communicating directly with ABS. I think I may just leave it alone for now

[rf900rkw]

My suggestion would be to have a chat with your family tuner.

[BimmerBreaker]

My suggestion would be to have a chat with your family tuner.

I have a personal limit on how much I feel I can annoy those who are willing to help me with questions like this. I think its important to not push my limits... I know I don't mind helping people when they message me asking for help, but when its a 40 minute back and forth for stuff they should have known, it can get a little annoying. I only assume those helping me feel the same, so I try to extend to them the courtesy I wish those asking me for help would extend to me. And I should have known this stuff beforehand so I feel I'm already on a bad foot lol. And I think he knows he doesn't know everything about this DME, so I'm not sure he would even know offhand...

For the record, with my tuner - this was a "Can you" "I don't think so" "But please" "I dont know anything about that DME" "I wont be mad if it doesnt work out" "I guess I could consider looking at it" type of arrangement. Not a "Can you tune this?" "Yes" type of deal.

Maybe I will poke him about it when the DME arrives to him, which should be today or tomorrow... but it doesn't seem like I'm missing anything critical... the major stuff seems to all be there at least (I edited that post btw, you may have missed the edit while you were replying)

I'll just keep moving forward... maybe wait to talk to him before I hack the frame up... if he isn't 100%, I'll reach out to the other tuners I know who work on the ME9.2 and ask what, if any, CAN stuff can be removed... then I at least know I have a backup if my tuner can't help

I do have an M62B46TU here in pieces. I'm really not opposed to jumping ship on the N62 if it makes more sense and nobody wants to even touch it. I asked a local (was local - he moved iirc) really well respected tuner and he just kinda... laughed, but he did point me in the direction of someone who does tune those DME's
Technically, the M62 4.6L would be a little more power than the N62B44 as the M62B46TU made 342hp and 480N-m. But its completely torn apart and I've never built an engine before from the ground up. It also needs the crank re-ground on at least 2 cyls. That all sounds like $$$ to me - my initial estimates put a rebuild at about $2500. A running M62B46 is $3-3500... oh and the N62 oil pump has to be modified with exact precision; thus more $ - at that point/cost, I'd rather spend an extra few thousand for an S62

[BimmerBreaker]

[kolosy]

*disclaimer* i'm a career software guy, but a toddler by shade tree mechanic standards.

it is very possible to be in a scenario where you have all the bits and the DME will just give you a middle finger salute, because (to Randy's point) it's either expecting something that isn't there, or even something like a data format issue (where you have the thing, but it's speaking a newer/older dialect than the DME expects). If at all possible, I'd try to see if it starts (again -- not sure what I'm recommending is possible mechanically) before making permanent modifications.

[328 Power 04]

A lot of that CAN stuff can be turned off or the 'limp' modes deactivated for missing components.
The dme did arrive

And I agree.. Engine start is the initial goal.

[BimmerBreaker]

Awesome to hear the DME arrived And I love that positive attitude. You are the man! We are gonna do this!

I am also slightly less concerned after knowing specifically *what* is missing out of the CAN bus system. When I was first studying that specific diagram I was so focussed on finding the CAN routing that I didn't pay too much attention to what was on the lines specifically other than what I knew the Z3 already had. It does appear that those other modules may all be auxillary features which may not even throw engine limp modes on their own...

[328 Power 04]

ABS/DXC/DSC for one
That's where the dme will get its road speed.

Cluster will be a second

[BimmerBreaker]

ABS/DXC/DSC for one
That's where the dme will get its road speed.

Cluster will be a second

I'm hoping those systems will be OK since they will be on the same CAN line as they are on the E53. I am most unsure about that RPM rate sensor. But if it goes on the other CAN line I can figure out where and how to tap it in on that line... Idk. Where'd the positivity go? You can code it out if theres an issue!

Cluster is also getting some custom coding magic from Kyle. Not sure what differences there are to the stock cluster. There's also a chance he won't be able to do it all properly the way I want it, but we will see

[rf900rkw]

A lot of that CAN stuff can be turned off or the 'limp' modes deactivated for missing components.

That's what I needed to hear. Knowing how BMW does modular integration, I figured they can be coded in and out. I just don't know if anyone in the normal world has figured out how.

[BimmerBreaker]

I was pretty busy yesterday...
Sold the M52TU yesterday so the engine crane is freed up for removing the V8
Sold the catalytic converters to a scrapper locally too... $600 I got just for the pair of cats off this V8!
Sold the M52TU headers with cats for another $250 too, so in total made $1050 back from the M52TU... Still have the labelled, intact engine harness to sell as well!
Went to the junkyard to score some parts... Found some of what I needed but not all of it
Shifter linkage showed up and I went to test fit it... No dice. Doing some researching and pondering to find the best deal on what I need. OE 550i linkage arm can be had for about $60 but needs another $30 just in bushings, theres a used linkage with lever and bushings installed for $120 but no selector rod. I probably wont use the e60 shift lever but it has an abnormally short bottom so it might be nice to have for reference. Selector rod alone is $60+ so for that cost I would rather shorten what I have here or find something that fits
Also - giubo is too large to bolt to Z3 driveshaft. I will likely source an E60 driveshaft to have that flange installed when I get driveshaft shortened. Alternately - the GS6-37 does have the correct flange pattern. I considered buying that flange to see if it bolts on to the GS6-53 but at $200+ it is an expensive gamble. Still considering it - removing the flange off an E60 driveshaft will likely render it useless anyways. So either way Im probably paying ~$200 be it for a driveshaft or an output flange. A parts car is looking more and more appealing... Lol. Problem is I am not sure the 37 output flange would even fit on the 53 trans. If I knew for sure it would fit I would go that route, to have a smaller giubo as that will give more clearance for the shift linkage... Hmm...
Pictures soon

Edit: hmm wonder how interchangeable those output flanges are... I have a few other spare transmissions laying around. Ill take a look and maybe get lucky