The Dunklenator (Poor Man's Z8 Project)

[BimmerBreaker]

Don't give up! The project is very ambitious!

Also, what are the donor cars of the next DMEs? I am just asking because most ME9x ECUs come from cars with CAS and not EWS. The EWS system is nearly the same but there might be also software differences. Does the software suit the EWS system? Anyway, if there were any problem with that, the ECU would have complained. Just a thought.

The donor DMEs were from CAS cars, but were the correct ek928_4 DME types so should be compatible. In any case - the EWS-DME alignment indicates succesful and there are no EWS codes present when attempting to start

[328 Power 04]

Don't give up! The project is very ambitious!

Also, what are the donor cars of the next DMEs? I am just asking because most ME9x ECUs come from cars with CAS and not EWS. The EWS system is nearly the same but there might be also software differences. Does the software suit the EWS system? Anyway, if there were any problem with that, the ECU would have complained. Just a thought.

I had converted both to X5 4.4i with EWS3 capabilities, and wrote in the ISN code in, just to make sure they matched.
I have reads from original EWS3d which synced rolling codes fine to the ME9

[Fx323i]

I had converted both to X5 4.4i with EWS3 capabilities, and wrote in the ISN code in, just to make sure they matched.
I have reads from original EWS3d which synced rolling codes fine to the ME9

Understood, it was just one of my thoughts as I also do these programming things and know that sometimes things are more tough than it might seem at the first sight.

BimmerBreaker: Many thoughts coming but it is difficult to guess. Maybe sharing your wiring changes might be a good thing. Also, you said literally anyone can go through the wiring diagrams etc. From my experience, many people can not read them properly and as these vary with every brand of cars, it sometimes is difficult to find some things. Also there are some differences on Euro (which I work with) and US-spec cars, so taking things out of memory in my case might lead in misunderstandings.

[ixlr08]

Another vote to hang in there, take a break, regroup then go back at it. Sounds like you need to get out the scope and check actual crank signal at sensor and again at computer. Sounds like you need crank signal before you can go any further. You need to verify the signal and not assume the new sensor is doing what it is supposed to. Good luck. Like others have said, if I lived closer I would come give you a hand with this, but I left Chandler years ago.

[rasmuw]

Keep at it--you'll get it figured out! Have fun with your 4.8is in the meantime. One question: is your new crank sensor BMW or aftermarket? I tried three aftermarket cam sensors and none worked successfully. A BMW brand made the difference. I have no idea if crank sensors have similar problems.

[BimmerBreaker]

Understood, it was just one of my thoughts as I also do these programming things and know that sometimes things are more tough than it might seem at the first sight.

BimmerBreaker: Many thoughts coming but it is difficult to guess. Maybe sharing your wiring changes might be a good thing. Also, you said literally anyone can go through the wiring diagrams etc. From my experience, many people can not read them properly and as these vary with every brand of cars, it sometimes is difficult to find some things. Also there are some differences on Euro (which I work with) and US-spec cars, so taking things out of memory in my case might lead in misunderstandings.

Yeah, I think I will post the diagrams up by the end of next week, if I have not resolved the issue by then. I would be happy to send them to you in the meantime if you wish, as you have been tremendously helpful in the whole process

Another vote to hang in there, take a break, regroup then go back at it. Sounds like you need to get out the scope and check actual crank signal at sensor and again at computer. Sounds like you need crank signal before you can go any further. You need to verify the signal and not assume the new sensor is doing what it is supposed to. Good luck. Like others have said, if I lived closer I would come give you a hand with this, but I left Chandler years ago.

Checking the sensor with my oscilloscope will be one of the first things I do once I get back to working on it. It would be pretty unlucky to have bought a bad sensor, but certainly not impossible

Keep at it--you'll get it figured out! Have fun with your 4.8is in the meantime. One question: is your new crank sensor BMW or aftermarket? I tried three aftermarket cam sensors and none worked successfully. A BMW brand made the difference. I have no idea if crank sensors have similar problems.

It was a used OE sensor, the seller said it was tested and verified working prior to sale. I do not ever use aftermarket sensors on BMW's, for the reason you mentioned... they don't ever seem to work!



Weather has been great here recently - so at least I've been enjoying working outside when at home... been especially enjoying the company of the Rosy-faced lovebirds that live in the tree in my backyard! I don't consider myself a very good photographer but I did like how this picture turned out
I need to buy another lens, so I can take better car pictures. Then everyone can finally see how filthy my cars are

Anyways. Back to the birds for me...

[z3forlife]

Is it possible the wires to the sensor are switched ? Idk if a diode is involved in the sensor circuit but if so that might explain no measured signal at the dme

[Fx323i]

Bimmerbreaker: If you wish me to take a look at the diagrams, feel free to send them to me. I will try to help.

[BimmerBreaker]

Is it possible the wires to the sensor are switched ? Idk if a diode is involved in the sensor circuit but if so that might explain no measured signal at the dme

Not sure how that would happen, the wires are self-contained on the engine harness, I did not de-pin these wires at any point

Bimmerbreaker: If you wish me to take a look at the diagrams, feel free to send them to me. I will try to help.

Sent and thank you again for your help

If anyone else wants to take a look at the diagrams just PM me your e-mail. I dont want to post my months of research publically but will share to any individuals who are curious to lend an eye

Back to working on this now. Tried to go in earlier in the week to work on it but my brother in law... Well, I did suspension work for him 7 months ago after putting on brand new tires on the 97 328i he bought from me last year. "Get an alignment" I told him repeatedly... He never did. Front tires were bald. Front right blew out on the highway. He said hes been checking the pressure so thats good at least. Notice the rest of the tires seem low. "If youve been checking the pressure, then what pressure are they at?" "Oh, 18 psi" ...promptly showed him (again) the door sticker showing proper tire inflation pressures of 32-35 psi. Throw the spare on and fill the tires up with my portable inflator - drive LITERALLY one city block to my house. On the way there, it pops the front left tire while crawling at 10mph. They are junky 16" inch stock E36 wheels. Just limped it home on the rim since I could see my neighborhood from where it popped. Shopped for Civics for him once we made it home.

[BimmerBreaker]

Had some really bad luck today... Went in with a whole little checklist of stuff to check, all excited to try to make some progress



Seems like another faulty sensor... I think I may have an idea what happened but won't know for sure until I fix it. So now I will have to wait again until Monday for the junkyards to open up so I can go look for another sensor lol

Later in the day I decided to work on the X5. I got the rear suspension all aired up last week, everything was working except the front air struts which were leaking and not airing up at all. So I went ahead and bought some front air struts for it and went to install them today. Wanted to replace the leaky side then test the suspension before replacing the good looking side. So went to air it up to hear which side was leaking but the compressor wouldn't turn on. Checked for errors and there weren't any, no "suspension inactive" warnings, just... no compressor activity at all. Not really sure what happened. Doesn't throw any useful faults except if you leave it long enough it'll throw an error about taking too long to fill the reservoir with no change in pressure. The fuses in the rear and the glovebox looked good. Compressor visually looks good, possibly even new (the bolts holding it in place were also loose...). Heard a few small leaks from the compressor when in the rear but it was leaking there when it was running too. Hmm

December 12th edit: I am still working on this!

[BimmerBreaker]

I get asked about this swap pretty regularly so now that I am sort of back to working on it, I felt it was time for an update
Nothing exciting has happened yet. We are right where we left off so don't go expecting a start video quite yet

After my last post I had to move the N62 swap off the lift to make room for some customer work. Then I took some time to work on my own cars when things slowed down for the Holidays as well as taking a few days to clean and organize the shop
Now, caught up on all that, I got the Z3 back in front where I can work on it and this is where she currently sits...



I am going back into this with a battle plan

• I have a crank sensor and fresh DME in hand and I am going to source another IVM
• Then I will test the crank sensor in the parts car X5 I have
• If it tests good, I'll double check the wiring from the crank sensor to DME/IVM
• If that looks good, I'll install the new CPS/DME/IVM, align EWS, and try again

It doesn't sound like a lot, but if it doesn't work... I'm sort of out of ideas
I had a few people review my wiring and nobody noticed any issues. There is of course also the question of Does the wiring on the car actually match the diagrams? and on that note, I will be double checking the wiring today as well, before attempting the start

Any other suggestions? Let's *assume* the above doesn't fix it, where do I go next?

Not even 100% sure I'm going to attempt the start again today to be honest. I really should though. It's been moved into this spot since Monday... keep telling myself I'll do it then I go in and find other projects to work on. I should just chin up and do it. If it doesn't work I haven't lost anything. I only have knowledge to gain, even if that knowledge is "this isn't the reason it wasn't starting"

[BladeRunner919]

Not even 100% sure I'm going to attempt the start again today to be honest. I really should though.

Do it!!

[CoconutPete]

Do it! I was so excited when I saw this thread back up top!

[Fx323i]

Do it! I am impatiently waiting if there is to be any update. Working even on stock cars is a bit boring and sometimes frustrating, too. I can imagine your frustration but would like to see some update...

[ProductUser]

I'm trying to shove a pig through a snake at work. Not exciting at all. Do it!

[TexaZ3]

I'm trying to shove a pig through a snake at work. Not exciting at all. Do it!

Haha, agreed!

[BimmerBreaker]

Haha, you guys encouraging me to work on it did give me a little boost to work on it in between some customer work earlier today. Didn't get a lot done but did glean some useful information diagnostically speaking...

First thing was getting the X5 moved over and lifted in an inappropriate way. Do not attempt this at home



Then removing the disgusting belly pan. This took way longer than I care to admit. I spent probably 20 minutes just wiping oil-embedded rocks and dirt off the top nuts just to get the wrench on the counter-hold the nuts. On the E70 X5 generation that came after this, they made the belly pan bolt-in, without requiring counter-holding nuts on the top side...



I'm starting to put the pieces together a little bit about this car's previous life. It seems it was beaten into the ground while the previous owner lived in Mexico. I suspect it was driven on offroad/dirt roads a lot. He did mention it was surprisingly capable offroad, which I found an unusual comment for someone selling a 4.8is

Anyways, onto testing the sensor...
First I removed the sensor in the X5 - labelled it as good and set it aside
I then installed the "fresh" one I had just bought. X5 fired right up. Labelled it as good and set it aside with the other one
Went to check one of the old sensors that was giving that weird reading. With that sensor installed it cranked about 5 seconds and didn't start, tried a few times but same results

My original theory was that plugging the harnesses into the wrong sensor fried the sensor, IVM and/or DME. This seems to confirm that at the bare minimum, the sensor was faulty, possibly fried...

That was all I had time to do tonight, but I also realized since I am parting out the X5 I have good IVM to use. So with an IVM in hand the next step is to double check the wiring. If the wiring checks out and looks good (paying special attention to the crankshaft sensor wiring) then I will install one of the good crank sensors, the good IVM from the X5, the "fresh" DME and try again
Getting closer... I hope!

I've also decided if I don't get this done in a reasonable timeframe, it's getting an M62 or an S62, whatever budget allows when the decision comes. One way or the other it will be a BMW V8 in a Z3 roadster. M62/S62 swap seems much easier electronically (and physical fitment-wise too, to be honest) but I am still very drawn to the N62

[Fx323i]

This sounds like a good progress! I would keep it in the state you'd be able to re-test the crankshaft position sensor in case the damned Z3 would not start now. Anyway, it would be also good to check the fault memory of the X5 after it did not start with the faulty crankshaft position sensor just to see if it logged that the sensor is faulty. This would give you a good view of "if the ECU will tell you when the sensor is not working". Some do, some do not. You have two cars, one working, one not working. Same engine, same ECU. This helps a lot!

[BladeRunner919]

It seems it was beaten into the ground while the previous owner lived in Mexico. I suspect it was driven on offroad/dirt roads a lot. He did mention it was surprisingly capable offroad, which I found an unusual comment for someone selling a 4.8is

No little packets of white powder stashed away away from the previous owner's border runs?

[BimmerBreaker]

This sounds like a good progress! I would keep it in the state you'd be able to re-test the crankshaft position sensor in case the damned Z3 would not start now. Anyway, it would be also good to check the fault memory of the X5 after it did not start with the faulty crankshaft position sensor just to see if it logged that the sensor is faulty. This would give you a good view of "if the ECU will tell you when the sensor is not working". Some do, some do not. You have two cars, one working, one not working. Same engine, same ECU. This helps a lot!

Yup that's the plan. I have the X5 sitting like that for now, so if I need to, I can get back under to swap crank sensors/test/re-test components as needed

Good idea on testing the X5 ECU now for errors. I will do that when back today before I remove the IVM

And yes having this running version of the same drivetrain around should prove rather helpful diagnostically

No little packets of white powder stashed away away from the previous owner's border runs?

I think he was on the other side of the law... there were some interesting stickers on the window. He said he worked for the Department of Defense. Just moved to somewhere in South America to help protect/work on oil fields or something for the US government down there. I should have listened closer when he was telling his life story while I was looking at the car...

Today's plan...

Check for errors in X5
Remove X5 IVM
Double check Z3 wiring
Triple check Z3 wiring
Install sensor/IVM/DME... test crank?

[BimmerBreaker]

At the shop now but waiting on a car to be dropped off so lots of good time to fiddle...

And progress has been made!

First thing I did was check for codes in the X5. No codes. Then I tested a good sensor in the X5 to make sure the bad sensor didnt fry an IVM or anything. Old sensor in and it started up

Then I wanted to check the IVM in the Z3, threw it in the X5, it started. So I still have two good IVMs at least. Good



Checked the Z3 wiring. All looked good. Good sensor, good IVM and good DME installed in the Z3...

Aligned EWS/DME. Alignment successful

Cranked it. It actually fired! Maybe 2 or 3 cylinders then died. Just cranks but occasionally will catch and fire for a brief moment (like a single cylinder firing). Few codes popped up, will post those later
Most relevant code was for fuel pump relay activation. Maybe something previously fried the fuel pump relay. I will double check the wiring on that and check the relay next...

Most critical piece of info - when cranking, I have crank signal now in INPA! Yay! At least SOME progress has been made. Now to figure out why its still not starting...



I think I'll start by looking at the fuel relay



Next time I am there I have a whole new list of stuff to look at... nice that this project is back to being exciting instead of anxiety-inducing
First things first I will look at the fuel pump relay and all related fuses

I also want to investigate more about if the clutch switch could be playing a role in this. I don't think it could be - the clutch switch is designed to disable the starter any time the switch is not "active" so I have to assume the DME has reverted to thinking the "clutch is always pressed" in absence of an actual input, seeing as how it cranks the engine over though. I will note though - the autostart function does not work, even though it should all be wired correctly to do so. Maybe the DME is disabling the autostart function because it isn't detecting a clutch switch signal? I can't look into the wiring diagrams for the E60 clutch switch specifically though, because on the manual N62 models, these inputs all just feed into one module, it does some magic and outputs data. I don't want to retrofit said module, nor could it be retrofitted easily as it feeds off a bunch of K-bus lines that I don't have in this car

[328 Power 04]

The clutch switch may be a stretch.

I'd bet the engine would stay running on starting fluid?

[BimmerBreaker]

The clutch switch may be a stretch.

I'd bet the engine would stay running on starting fluid?

I had that same hunch but my starting fluid was missing its little sprayer nozzle, I'll get a fresh can tomorrow and try again with a couple squirts into the intake manifold

I think you are right about the clutch switch being a stretch but I'm trying to explore all possibilities lol. It also does confuse me a little why the autostart doesn't work. There may be other factors at play in that regard though.

[Fx323i]

I would focus on fuel pressure now (hoses tightness, filter, pressure regulator). Also, having a working engine aside, it gives you a chance to switch several other things. Do I remember well you did something with the camshaft sensors?

[Fx323i]

I went through the video. See ews manipulation there. That was before or after it started at least for a while?

Also, there is ecu overvoltage fault. Unfortunately I am not able to see it fully on my phone. What was the voltage when the fault came up? Do you have the alternator attached?