The Dunklenator (Poor Man's Z8 Project)

[BladeRunner919]

Glad your gf has recovered ok from the dreaded 'vid.

[BimmerBreaker]

I can do that. I'll take two t-shirts, both XL, one grey (gray) and one black. PM, DM or whatever your shop's address and when you'll be there. I can usually break away in the AM or late afternoon.

Done

Glad your gf has recovered ok from the dreaded 'vid.

Shes got the 'vid!

(well, she had the 'vid) ...yes I'm also glad shes better. Not sure what was worse, being quarantined from her, or hearing her complain about being quarantined from me

[BimmerBreaker]

Alll riiiiight

Did a lot today. Started with the S62, ended with the N62...

I just had to know what the S62 looked like underneath that wrapping. What I set out to inspect today was two things: the cylinder hones and the deck

When I first opened it up there was a lot of dirt along the cylinder walls. It was pretty easy to clean out, but was mildly coarse, so I was careful to remove as much as possible before rotating the engine

First thing I did was remove as much as I could with an oiled rag. Then I used a shop vac to get the bits that were caught above the piston ring between the piston and the cylinder wall. Once I was satisfied that I had as much as possible removed, I dripped oil onto the rings and generously lubricated the cylinder walls before turning the engine over just a little bit. Just that little bit revealed a lot more gunk. I would wipe again, lubricate the walls again, rotate again and each time this would reveal less gunk. I have a feeling there is some crud trapped in the rings so I dripped a generous amount of oil into the cylinders when I stored it after working on it today and will repeat this process

The below is visually the worst looking cylinder, but it is worth noting, none of these can be felt by a fingernail




Almost all of the other cylinders pretty much looked like new, so I think I am going to run it without honing it, but I will inspect it again before putting the heads on just to get a second opinion. You know, an opinion from me - and from future me


The below did have me a little concerned though, I noticed a few minor imperfections across the deck surface, none of which were very deep. A few of those are pictured in the image to the left. These are likely the results of being stored for so long. The only one that goes into a combustion chamber is the one in the very center of the picture. It is a very thin scratch, extending almost between two cylinders. I am thinking of several ways to address this and the other minor imperfections currently



Top of the list of things to do is the old school method of stuffing oiled rags down the cylinders and using a big flat slab, with a huge piece of sandpaper underneath (honestly where to get a piece of sandpaper that big is my biggest concern? lol) and lapping the surface a little bit. I don't know...

In the meantime I also cleaned the pistons a little bit... (the right one in the original, uncleaned state). I did so by rotating each piston I was working on to TDC, so it was sitting just proud of the deck (shown in this image), flipping the engine upside down so that any dirt that came off would fall to the ground instead of into the bore and then just scraping with a plastic scraper. Whatever buildup was on there came right off, I assume because it had been stored properly and well oiled and the detergents slowly ate away the carbon buildup over time.
You can also see a good example of the other cylinder walls in the below image and how nice they look



While cleaning the pistons I also think I discovered the reason this engine was taken apart - cylinder 4 had rod bearing issues, I could hear it slap if I moved it by hand at the right angle. I am hoping that does not mean the crank is damaged... Now that I think of it, I have ARP bolts so I can reuse them if I need to, so I may as well do the rod bearings now to see what is going on with this. I will investigate this shortly

The engine was then gratuitously re-oiled for storage and a temporary means of protection applied before getting to work on the N62



So onto the N62!

Engine has to come out...



Then I dropped the front subframe with suspension, trans tunnel insulation, the rest of the firewall insulation, some of the heatshields, the A/C line and the brake booster/master. I discovered some of the studs holding on the trans tunnel insulation were causing a little fitment issue with the transmission, so I went ahead and removed all of the insulation and will be trimming the studs off. My original plan was to trim the insultation around just the shifter linkage area but new plan is to use DEI heat rejection wrap in the tunnel and other critical areas



So the next step is modifying the front subframe, then reinstalling the engine, determining the driveline angle and then fabricating engine mounts. At that point, the engine will be removed, steering rack installed to the subframe and steering linkage to the chassis and then that will be test fitted with the engine/headers

edit: actually just re-ordered the S62 gasket kit from bimmerworld who says they have it in stock... none of my usual suppliers for my shop stuff have it in stock, nor does FCP (who I like to use for personal projects) even carry it. Ordered it, lets see. I still have no idea how to assemble an engine though so thats still one hurdle between me and a finished engine besides just the gasket kit

--------------------

Look Ma, no pedals!



I've been waiting to make that joke that since about when I first started this swap and I realized at some point I would have all the pedals removed from the car at the same time. So with that, I've reached a pointless personal milestone

Routed the electronic pedal wires through what was the throttle cable hole...





That may be a temporary solution but if not it would technically work. I've seen people do much worse...

The wires just barely made it, but they made it



Mocked up in place... need the bracket, but looks like this pedal should work. I don't even remember what model this pedal is from anymore...



I also tried to install the clutch pedal. Many moons I had bought a spare clutch pedal assembly and never used and I found it today. Well I dusted it off today and was very disappointed





It looks like someone got halfway through swapping their pedal assembly and gave up - the pedals were correct, but the hardware was not correct for the manual assembly - notably the bolt for the slave was too short/one was missing and various bushings and clips were missing. That wouldn't be so annoying if I didn't pay for a complete assembly (like, 2 years ago? haha). Oh well. I already have a replacement ordered. Will be nice to wrap the pedal stuff up soon...

Then trimmed the transmission tunnel studs







Also for the driveshaft dilemna I've been considering getting an adapter made - maybe something billet aluminum, very solid, that bolts to stock transmission output flange and allows me to bolt a stock Z3 transmission flange to it. Any thoughts on that?

[328 Power 04]

You gonna polish and shine that firewall?

[BimmerBreaker]

You gonna polish and shine that firewall?

Threw all the N62 stuff in my cart 2 days ago and FCP finally just hit me with that 5% coupon!

Main things ordered today:
Valve stem seals
Alternator bracket oil gasket
Clutch kit
Crankcase gasket set
Water pump
Thermostat

Will be doing a round 2 at some point for other things like belt tensioners and etc but those are smaller things I can address later - I wanted to try to get all the big things done now. I also need to order the coolant transfer pipe today, FCP doesn't carry the extendable versions and the OE replacement is a pain in the ass

While researching coolant pipes I noticed there is a URO brand coolant transfer pipe I was unaware of previously. I am giving some thought to trying this out, instead of the AGA one. The URO one is $200, the AGA one is $550. I have never had problems with Uro Premium or Uro HD stuff before to be honest (those seem to be made to a different standard than just "Uro" stuff) and all the reviews seem positive... it may be worth giving it a shot

[CoconutPete]

Awesome stuff!

Are you going to (or have you already) beef up the rear subframe and rear diff mount? I feel like you could write that torque output you quoted on a post-it and waive it in front of the diff. mount and that alone would be enough to put cracks in it.

[Master Crash]

Are you going to walnut blast while the heads are off?

I am unfamiliar with how the output shafts are arranged on these cars. Do they have a flange onto which you then bolt a splined shaft? Or is the the splined shaft machined into the crank?

If you are going to be doing a full setup on the pedals, then go for broke and get some purdy aluminum ones.

[BimmerBreaker]

Awesome stuff!

Are you going to (or have you already) beef up the rear subframe and rear diff mount? I feel like you could write that torque output you quoted on a post-it and waive it in front of the diff. mount and that alone would be enough to put cracks in it.

That's kind of one of those scope creep things... I have decided I will not do the rear diff stuff for now, but I will likely do it very shortly after the car is running. I don't want to take on too much at once - this project is already a lot of firsts for me and there is still a lot to do.

My thinking is that once I have the car running, the incentive to beef things up to where I can feel free to do burnouts and general hoonery will likely incentive me to reinforce things quickly, but since none of that work is shared with what I am doing now, there is really no point in doing it now. I'd really like to drive the car at least once with that V8 under the hood, ideally soon as possible My anticipation is growing by the day. I've almost had a few moments where I thought to myself I should just stop at Harbor Freight on the way in, buy myself a welder and just get zappin'... how hard can engine mounts be anyways?

Are you going to walnut blast while the heads are off?

I am unfamiliar with how the output shafts are arranged on these cars. Do they have a flange onto which you then bolt a splined shaft? Or is the the splined shaft machined into the crank?

If you are going to be doing a full setup on the pedals, then go for broke and get some purdy aluminum ones.

The N62 does not have the issue that requires walnut blasting like the direct injection engines - this is a port injection naturally aspirated V8.

For anyone who doesn't know, the output shaft looks like this:


(thanks for the images, FCPeuro)

This bit, the giubo, bolts to it:


The problem I have is that the diameter of the giubo is larger on the E60 transmission, so the Z3 giubo will not bolt to it.

My thinking was something like this:


Which is designed for a similar purpose for E30's, I believe to use a Z3 style trans on an older, even smaller giubo.

I would like to clarify that they do not make one of these spacers in the size I need that I am aware of so buying off the shelf isn't even an option. And since I would have to get something custom made, I would rather maintain the OE rubber giubo anyways - so I was thinking something like what is pictured above but manufactured out of solid billet aluminum with the holes offset correctly for my application would allow me to bolt a giubo to the billet aluminum spacer, so I can maintain a stock size Z3 giubo. I am just not sure the viability of such an option



Anyways

Cleaned her up today... I really want to just paint the engine bay and start putting things back together and get this thing done. Fabricator says he is on for tomorrow for the subframe



Masked some stuff after pressure washing the bay



Degreaser



Afterwards...



I decided a color choice too. I was starting to realize it was decision time - I had to decide what the engine bay finish was going to be as it was just about time to start putting at least some of the stuff back together for the last time. My mind was sort of set on Black Sapphire Metallic - it's an OE Z3 color, it's a throwback to N62 powered cars including the X5 that sort of inspired this project and I just think a metallic black engine bay with a different color metallic exterior is a really cool touch... I was thinking a Fern Green exterior, to simplify the respray process so it wasn't a total color change. But I wasn't in love with that idea and as I was working on the car today I realized that there is a really good chance something will crop up later that will need some sort of modification, adjustment... who knows... but if I have a metallic paint in the engine bay it will be difficult to match properly. I don't want to deal with paint matching my engine bay every time I add a new bracket or something for the V8 swap. Originally I was planning on outsourcing the paint including engine bay but realizing I didn't want to touch it up also made me rethink if I should consider painting it myself. I started researching if I could get results I would be satisfied with myself by DIY methods and I think from the looks of it I may be able to.

Oh the color choice, right.... the engine bay is going to be satin black, with Techno Violet exterior. But you probably assumed something close to that as your peripheral vision surely noticed that 'Cuda sitting just below the rambling paragraph above, a car my mind immediately thought of after thinking of that color combo. Which is nice, as I've always loved this car. Maybe I should copy this livery instead of those planes, but instead of Hemi, it should say N62... or VALVETRONIC



So, does anyone have any experience or suggestions for engine bay painting? I have never done it before and welcome any tips or feedback before I get started. Tonight will likely be one of those "Up until 4am researching" nights, but the feedback from you guys is always weighted much heavier than those professors on Youtube. Also worth noting that when I decided the color I also decided I will be keeping this car as a long-term car for myself so if it ends up being imperfect or anything, they are my own battle scars to keep and wear. As long as I can learn and get better for next time that is all that matters buuut that doesn't mean I can't try to do the best job possible the first go around...

[Master Crash]

No I meant for getting the little bits of carbon deposit off of the pistons.

Also I thought you were talking about where the engine connects to the transmission. I forgot that you're using the N62 transmission too so it's a moot point. Now I understand where you are talking about needing an adapter.

[BimmerBreaker]

No I meant for getting the little bits of carbon deposit off of the pistons.

I am not entirely sure you understand what walnut blasting is for - walnut blasting isn't for cleaning pistons, its for cleaning valves, which I don't need to do, because they are port injected, so the fuel kept the valves clean while the engines were running

[Master Crash]

I figured it would work as well for pistons with some build up. Perhaps I am mistaken. Maybe walnut blasting is only used for valves because they're just really hard to get to.

anyway I worked my ass off today and my brain is not at 100%. The paint looks good. How long before all of those engine materials show up? I've had stuff mired in Ohio for a week now, I guess they got hit really hard when it snowed last week...?

[BimmerBreaker]

Yeah walnut blasting is the easiest way to clean valves while the engine is still installed in the car. You can clean pistons by walnut blasting them but there are cheaper ways to clean pistons if they are out of the engine - usually soaking them in solvents seems to do the trick. In my case, the pistons pictured above are a different engine than what I am swapping into this car and I already cleaned those pistons sufficiently just by scraping with a plastic scraper - the left in this before and after picture is clean, they all look like that clean piston now.

I'm expecting parts to be coming in the following week so I am hoping to knock out some of the fabrication this week


Anyone have any new name suggestions since Dunklenator ain't gonna cut it anymore? You guys can think of that while I do the like, sanding and (fingers crossed) watch my friend weld tomorrow

I will say someone suggested "Technotronic" and that's gonna be hard to beat lol

[Mr Bingley]

Paint work is all about the prep. De-greasing is a good first step, but you should also prep solve the surfaces to be painted before sanding to prevent fish eyeing. You should also prime the bay with a good catalyzed primer--at least anywhere the paint is scratched (and I can see several places in the photos)--or better the whole bay--and sand and re-sand the primer just before painting to ensure adhesion. For engine bays and other cutting-in, it is easier to use an HVLP touch-up gun. It is also important that your choice of primer and bay paint are compatible with the material you're going to use on the exterior for where there might be overlap from over spray. I assume you are going to use a catalyzed water based urethane base coat clear coat system for both with a satin clear in the bay. The easiest method is to use the same system for all paint and to buy your paint from an auto body paint supply store. If you are going to paint the whole car and do a color change to boot, you should do the rear subframe reinforcement before you paint the car--you will thank or curse your past self depending on which you go with this. For engine bay painting it is nice to have an assistant to keep you from dragging the air hose through your fresh paint as you go. The biggest challenge will be not having the paint pool and run--especially the clear--engine bays are more challenging in the regard than body panels. Consider doing the prep yourself, but bringing in a ringer to shoot the base and clear. Can you seal the area where the car is off from sources of dust, but still have ventilation?

Can't you solve the Giubo issue on the drive shaft when you have it shortened?

[IndianaRoadster]

"Z8ter", being that it's a Z3 with an eight cylinder.

[BimmerBreaker]

"Z8ter", being that it's a Z3 with an eight cylinder.

Haha, I don't know why, but when I say "Zater" - it reminds me of the nickname of some kid in an '80s sitcom or movie

Paint work is all about the prep. De-greasing is a good first step, but you should also prep solve the surfaces to be painted before sanding to pr

event fish eyeing. You should also prime the bay with a good catalyzed primer--at least anywhere the paint is scratched (and I can see several places in the photos)--or better the whole bay--and sand and re-sand the primer just before painting to ensure adhesion. For engine bays and other cutting-in, it is easier to use an HVLP touch-up gun. It is also important that your choice of primer and bay paint are compatible with the material you're going to use on the exterior for where there might be overlap from over spray. I assume you are going to use a catalyzed water based urethane base coat clear coat system for both with a satin clear in the bay. The easiest method is to use the same system for all paint and to buy your paint from an auto body paint supply store. If you are going to paint the whole car and do a color change to boot, you should do the rear subframe reinforcement before you paint the car--you will thank or curse your past self depending on which you go with this. For engine bay painting it is nice to have an assistant to keep you from dragging the air hose through your fresh paint as you go. The biggest challenge will be not having the paint pool and run--especially the clear--engine bays are more challenging in the regard than body panels. Consider doing the prep yourself, but bringing in a ringer to shoot the base and clear. Can you seal the area where the car is off from sources of dust, but still have ventilation?

Can't you solve the Giubo issue on the drive shaft when you have it shortened?

Really appreciate the input. I'll take your advice to heart and degrease/prep before sanding... but I will note, I don't have air at my shop right now. I've been looking into adding a system recently so maybe its time... problem is, I just spent a ton on other tools and parts so not sure its really in the cards right now. That's may be one of those "do better next time" things. I was thinking of stopping by the local auto body paint supply store near me to explain my goals with the engine bay and the finish I am looking for to see if they can mix me some rattle cans to produce something that looks good and is durable enough for an engine bay. This is not going to be a show car... I want to show it off, sure, but I don't plan on putting it in a booth to shoot the bay

I could have an E60 style flange welded onto the Z3 front shaft to solve the giubo issue, that is one thing I have considered, this would use the larger E60 giubo instead of the Z3 giubo but that's not inherently a bad thing

[BladeRunner919]

Interesting to hear your thoughts, and actually quite enlightening. My view of this thread is "here's someone that has done a huge amount on this project in a very short amount of time", but on a couple of occassions I was surprised that you were frustrated by the percieved slow pace. I now understand why - you are only 30 years old! While you seem to think that's old, I can tell you that it isn't.

I hit 50 next month, and still love working on cars and bikes but don't beat myself up over timescales because it doesn't matter, unless you only have one vehicle and no other way to get to work, but I'm fortunate to have a small selection, none of which is particularly amazing, but which I enjoy owning and tinkering with. Life passes too quickly to worry about stuff like that.

I have genuinely been impressed by this project and loved the regular updates. If I lived anywhere near you, this is the kind of project that I would willingly have offered my time and limited knowledge to help with.

If it's any consolation, I have two pallets of patio slabs that were delivered in August or September last year. Instead of laying them, I bought an old Aprilia and started tinkering with that. I'll get the patio done eventually, but I won't lose any sleep over it.

[Corellian Corve]

Keep up the great work, man. This build is super fascinating so do what you want to do, at the pace you want to do it. We're here to enjoy and help.

BTW - this would make a killer Youtube series

[ProductUser]

30 years old? I'm now eligible for some of Arizona's finest 55+ communities Look out ladies, I'm moving in!

[s8ilver]

For those who don't want to read the above, you are wise. Very wise. I ramble a lot. Heck, I'm rambling now. Just read the second paragraph, you'll get the jist

I consider myself somewhat wise on rare occasion, but I still read the whole thing. Keep it up man. You're exactly where you're supposed to be. I've learned that wanting more, even when achieved, just leads to wanting even more. Don't get me wrong; it's great to have goals and aspirations. Just never sacrifice your happiness to get there. Nothing is worth that. NOTHING.

I have friends that buy new cars every couple years and seem dumbfounded that I still drive cars from the 90s. "What, you change your own brakes?" Whatever. Enjoy your car payments. I'm happy tinkering in the garage. Sometimes I'm out there every day for a week. Sometimes I don't even open the garage for a month. They'll be there when I'm ready for them.

Happy motoring!

[robb1887]

I'm 2.5years into my 4Runner V8 and its stalled, so I get it. But it will get done. Just keep plugging away. I have a few things I'll need to "sub contract" but did the mounts and relocated my trans cross memeber myself. My suggestion for the welder is find a Red/Blue box used on FB marketplace or Craigslist in good used condition for a few hundred over the HF. Get some 75/25 shield gas and some 0.028 weld wire and just start trying. MIG is not hard to pick up reasonably quick and for not that much.

I did just get a HVLP gun for the mold release that I didnt end up going with. I may pain my engine bay in the 4Runner when I get to that point before I get the exterior recolored. I'm in your boat though it's overwhelming at times and that is why I did the Mcoupe interior overhaul as its more my knowledge base (minus the fiber glass work)

[Mr Bingley]

30. I'll hit twice that age this June. I was 30 when I wandered into the body shop of the man who ultimately became my best friend to borrow a pop rivet gun to attach a replacement Toyota Tercel rear shock support I "fabricated" with a hammer out of an air cleaner cover so I could drive home from work. Seems like a lifetime ago, and in many ways it was. You make that car any way you want to--there's many more builds to come. That being said, swapping an S62 into a Z3 is a big deal, and you will ultimately want to do it again--to a show car--so save everything and take copious notes.

[328 Power 04]

This thread got even better with this bonding


I'd be curious of a lot of the regulars' ages here. It's interesting how I wouldn't have been able to guess.





At least the firewall will be shiny!

[Corellian Corve]

Just shy of the big 5.0

[BimmerBreaker]

You guys are really so kind, I appreciate it - I don't know what else to say but thank you for the support, it really does mean a lot

I'm also exhausted right now, been a long day!

I'll let the pictures do the speaking for the most part here







Subframe bolted in







So I will say this, because I was hoping for some input. My welder friend wanted to just cap it off like this



I chose to have us weld a plate on the inside/forward edge here



Then the side angled pieces extend down to that piece and then a plate welded in between the angles along the rear to box it off. I was thinking this would be a reasonable way to strengthen it given how little material we had to work with. In hindsight I could have cut the subframe a little less but now I know for next time. And for the record these are not my welds... it isn't finished in the pictures, we ran out of time today as he had somewhere to go, I will be welding the bottom seam tomorrow and I did some on the inside today just so I could say I did lol



I was also thinking I could always end up re-doing the subframe later. The point wasn't to have a perfect subframe now, I just need it in place so I can get other things done. I will be cleaning it up and painting it obviously before its finished but structurally, does it seem like this would work or is there something I have overlooked?

[s8ilver]

This thread got even better with this bonding


I'd be curious of a lot of the regulars' ages here. It's interesting how I wouldn't have been able to guess.





At least the firewall will be shiny!

Aren't you like 17? I'll be 39 on Thursday. We're heading to a cabin in Grand Lake as we haven't been out much the past year. How is (was?) the ski trip? You ski more than I do by the way, and I live here. How were the pierogi? What state are you currently in? Haha.

Good group. Virtual group hug.

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