Portland, hardtop, E34 seats

[moroza]

I posted this a while back on the main E39 board, but figure I'd get more answers here. I've been DDing an E34 Touring for over a decade now, and slowly coming to acknowledge that an E39T is probably a better choice for me. The only E39s I've experienced were a 98 540iM, and an M5 very briefly. All I remember about the M5 was its song, but I remember the 540 had a highway ride that makes an E34 a shopping cart by comparison, though the seats, visibility, and climate controls were inferior. I've never even sat in an E39T, or driven one with a steering rack.

1. Is anyone near Portland with a stock-ish E39 Touring, most ideally a non-Sport with functional SLS, who'd let me check it out? Especially anyone interested in seeing a rare and fairly nice E34T. Driving it is secondary; primarily, I want to experience the ride/quietness, as well as the rear seats and cargo area.

2. Anyone ever fit E34 front seats - with proper armrests - into an E39?

3. Anyone have a lead on a black hardtop (no sunroof) E39T, anywhere in North America and in (almost) any condition?

[m3 bavaria]

For what it's worth, I have the following in my garage now:

2001 M5
2000 540iT
1993 M5
1991 M5

I've owned:

1995 540I/6
1995 530iT

For me, the E39's are vastly superior in every way save aesthetics. Practicality, ride, parts availability, power, and comfort are all superior. On a trip and day to day, I prefer the 540iT to the e34 m5's.

[moroza]

For me, the E39's are vastly superior in every way save aesthetics. Practicality, ride, parts availability, power, and comfort are all superior. On a trip and day to day, I prefer the 540iT to the e34 m5's.

I'm with you on esthetics being the main advantage of an E34 (though E39 looks good to me too), but I'd add a few little things as well.

Objectively:
- Seat leather on all BMW seems higher quality, less plasticky, and more durable before c.1992. Later E34 seats wear as bad as E36 et al.
- E34 electronics are fewer, and even controlling for that, seem to have fewer gremlins (odometer pixels, for example).
- The A-pillars are slightly less obtrusive.
- IHKR vs IHKR, individual sliders for climate controls are more reliable (especially later E34 with all cables except recirc) and allow more customization for the fussy among us.
- Most common climate control vs. same, knobs and sliders are safer and more ergonomic than a dozen identically-shaped buttons. Ifnwhen I get an E39, I'll retrofit the 3- (4?) knob quasi-manual controls.
- E34 wheels aren't specific to that chassis.
- E34 comfort front seats have proper armrests.
- For comparable models, E34 is lighter, and with same engines, faster. My M62 E34T weighed ~3650lb, while my M50 one weighs ~3470, each some 2-300lb less than the equivalent E39.
Subjectively, IMO:
- Visually, inside and out, along with the E38, E31, and Z3, the E34 is Peak BMW and (barring exotics) more or less Peak Car.
- E34 comfort seats > E39 pancakes, at least in the front. Rears I'm unsure about.
- The shifter surround makes a great table for roadtrip snacks. The E39's is ok but not as good.

All of which doesn't hold a candle to better aerodynamics, significantly improved NVH tuning, and most of all a vastly improved aluminum suspension. Suspension design and tuning is, after all, BMW's forte. E34 footwork is based on the E23, designed in the early 70's. Metallurgy and computational power just wasn't there to make something like the E39, and I'm not sure it's much improved since then.

[Aubergine]

I'm with you on esthetics being the main advantage of an E34 (though E39 looks good to me too), but I'd add a few little things as well.

Objectively:
- Seat leather on all BMW seems higher quality, less plasticky, and more durable before c.1992. Later E34 seats wear as bad as E36 et al.
- E34 electronics are fewer, and even controlling for that, seem to have fewer gremlins (odometer pixels, for example).
- The A-pillars are slightly less obtrusive.
- IHKR vs IHKR, individual sliders for climate controls are more reliable (especially later E34 with all cables except recirc) and allow more customization for the fussy among us.
- Most common climate control vs. same, knobs and sliders are safer and more ergonomic than a dozen identically-shaped buttons. Ifnwhen I get an E39, I'll retrofit the 3- (4?) knob quasi-manual controls.
- E34 wheels aren't specific to that chassis.
- E34 comfort front seats have proper armrests.
- For comparable models, E34 is lighter, and with same engines, faster. My M62 E34T weighed ~3650lb, while my M50 one weighs ~3470, each some 2-300lb less than the equivalent E39.
Subjectively, IMO:
- Visually, inside and out, along with the E38, E31, and Z3, the E34 is Peak BMW and (barring exotics) more or less Peak Car.
- E34 comfort seats > E39 pancakes, at least in the front. Rears I'm unsure about.
- The shifter surround makes a great table for roadtrip snacks. The E39's is ok but not as good.

All of which doesn't hold a candle to better aerodynamics, significantly improved NVH tuning, and most of all a vastly improved aluminum suspension. Suspension design and tuning is, after all, BMW's forte. E34 footwork is based on the E23, designed in the early 70's. Metallurgy and computational power just wasn't there to make something like the E39, and I'm not sure it's much improved since then.

You need to try E38/39 full comfort seats with the articulating upper backrest and fully adjustable lumbar. They were wayyyy better than my E32 seats.

[m3 bavaria]

I'm with you on esthetics being the main advantage of an E34 (though E39 looks good to me too), but I'd add a few little things as well.

Objectively:
- Seat leather on all BMW seems higher quality, less plasticky, and more durable before c.1992. Later E34 seats wear as bad as E36 et al.
- E34 electronics are fewer, and even controlling for that, seem to have fewer gremlins (odometer pixels, for example).
- The A-pillars are slightly less obtrusive.
- IHKR vs IHKR, individual sliders for climate controls are more reliable (especially later E34 with all cables except recirc) and allow more customization for the fussy among us.
- Most common climate control vs. same, knobs and sliders are safer and more ergonomic than a dozen identically-shaped buttons. Ifnwhen I get an E39, I'll retrofit the 3- (4?) knob quasi-manual controls.
- E34 wheels aren't specific to that chassis.
- E34 comfort front seats have proper armrests.
- For comparable models, E34 is lighter, and with same engines, faster. My M62 E34T weighed ~3650lb, while my M50 one weighs ~3470, each some 2-300lb less than the equivalent E39.
Subjectively, IMO:
- Visually, inside and out, along with the E38, E31, and Z3, the E34 is Peak BMW and (barring exotics) more or less Peak Car.
- E34 comfort seats > E39 pancakes, at least in the front. Rears I'm unsure about.
- The shifter surround makes a great table for roadtrip snacks. The E39's is ok but not as good.

All of which doesn't hold a candle to better aerodynamics, significantly improved NVH tuning, and most of all a vastly improved aluminum suspension. Suspension design and tuning is, after all, BMW's forte. E34 footwork is based on the E23, designed in the early 70's. Metallurgy and computational power just wasn't there to make something like the E39, and I'm not sure it's much improved since then.

I've always run sports seats, so I can't really comment on the comfort seats. I can tell you that I have a pretty deep garage and the e39 is still one of my favorite cars today while the E34's are a bit too quaint for daily duty, don't offer the highway pace of a modern car, nor offer the ride and handling of a more modern car.

As a throwback and a novelty, the E34's are great. As something to live with that still puts a smile on your face, it's hard to go wrong with an E39.

[moroza]

Oh, they aren't *that* outdated... From what I've seen, an E34 in good condition has NVH tuning and does highway driving about on par with a mass-market (not upscale) 2019 sedan. Even an M20 automatic will happily cruise at 85mph, while my 544iTM had no trouble cruising for hours at 110-120 and was still smooth, if a bit loud and thirsty, at 149 (fastest I ever got it). No complaints about the pace - being relatively light helps, and the aero isn't too bad - mostly about the steering.

Wait, so there were seat options beyond basic and Sport? What models came with these "full comforts"? Or is it just lumbar support grafted on to the normal seats, like E34/E32 lumbar?

[dannyzabolotny]

No, the comfort seats have an articulating upper back + lumbar support, it's a different type of seat. You can't get lumbar support in E39 sport seats unless you go for M5 seats. There's also another seat type that's pretty popular if a little hard to obtain— the E38 sport comfort seat, which combines the lumbar support, sport bolsters, thigh extension, and articulating upper back, all into one. They tend to go for silly money and they're kinda the E38/E39 equivalent of the E34 sport seat in terms of desirability + pricing.

[m3 bavaria]

Oh, they aren't *that* outdated... From what I've seen, an E34 in good condition has NVH tuning and does highway driving about on par with a mass-market (not upscale) 2019 sedan. Even an M20 automatic will happily cruise at 85mph, while my 544iTM had no trouble cruising for hours at 110-120 and was still smooth, if a bit loud and thirsty, at 149 (fastest I ever got it). No complaints about the pace - being relatively light helps, and the aero isn't too bad - mostly about the steering.

Wait, so there were seat options beyond basic and Sport? What models came with these "full comforts"? Or is it just lumbar support grafted on to the normal seats, like E34/E32 lumbar?

Sport seats came from factory in my E34 540i/6 and were retrofitted by me in the E34 530iT. They're factory in my E39 540iT.

Rather than setting cruise control, I'm a bit more concerned with transmission kick down and acceleration. Granted, it's been a few years and I did buy the less desirable M60B30 car, but from what I remember, the acceleration was fairly underwhelming while the acceleration and kick down in sport setting in the E39 are surprisingly brisk. I don't see a significant difference between my E39 M5 and the E39 540iT.

[dannyzabolotny]

The difference between the transmissions is pretty noticeable too. The 5HP24 feels a bit more like a modern transmission, whereas the older, heavier 5HP30 is an absolute dinosaur.

[moroza]

Slushboxes? Cruise control? Not relevant to my interests.

[sienayr]

E39 comfort seats are hands-down the best most comfortable seats that I have ever experienced in an automobile. Anecdotally a few other enthusiasts I know have commented that those comfort seats are the most comfortable that BMW has ever produced.

[moroza]

Hm... would a 2/98 540iM have sport or comfort seats? I remember them being unremarkable either way, while for my backside, E34 comforts are remarkably good.