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Ok... measured spring specs first:
Moroza, just to make sure I was counting correctly, since you indicate there should be 6.5 coils, here is a pic.
The ends don’t appear to have been cut.
Eddy, thanks for the tips. I was able to get the sport struts in. It did take a LOT of compression however.
Always makes me nervous literally creating bombs in your garage with the help of chinesium. Worked out this time though!
You’ll notice a few things about the completed struts:
No bump stops and no plastic boots.
Why?
Something is up with the plastic sleeves that BMW now produces.
Here is a pic of the boot and ‘washer’ i took off the existing strut.
You’ll notice two things:
1) its split
2) it illustrates how the ‘washer’ and boot work together to keep everything in its place. The washer fits into the top ‘ring’ and keeps the boot in place at the top of the strut assembly.
There is a lower ring as well which you can see smashed on this particular part. This captures the bump stop and holds it in place. Kinda like this cutaway:
Why is it a cut down the side? Well, the top washer and plastic sleeve are sold separately from BMW. The washer is oversized compared to the sleeve to ensure it stays in place. So oversized in fact, that I could not figure out a way to put the two together.
I even tried boiling water to soften up the plastic sleeve and had no luck. Without a way to secure the sleeve to the washer, and therefore the bumpstop to the sleeve, I just left them both out for the time being.
I should also mention that the sport struts out of the box (and as mentioned before) are REALLY short. This makes it look like the bumpstop will be too large to not aways be in the way. When assembled however, the strut will extend to be as long as the ‘standard’ strut assembly, so this should not be an issue.
I have no idea how BMW got the sleeves and washers together to begin with. I know they are supposed to be this way as my other strut still had the original cap and washer intact and was not damaged.
So a couple more questions for the audience:
1) Anyone had any luck getting the washer into the plastic sleeve?
2) How much trouble am I going to be in without running the bumpstops? I’m thinking it will be ok, as i wasn’t running with them before anyway!!
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For the bump stops and the sleeves, I want to say that you've assembled them wrong? In your last pic, I think that the groove on the right side of the sleeve is supposed to go on the ridge that's on the left side of the bump stop. It's not supposed to attach to the washer. You can kind of see in the pic on my post 197 and in the RealOEM diagrams.
The order, from top to bottom, should be:
1. Washer
2. Bump stop, with the tapered end downwards (flat end on top against the washer).
3. Sleeve, with the big square groove attached to the bottom of the bump stop. So it's basically hanging from the bottom of the bump stop.
- - - Updated - - -
As for running without the bump stops, my understanding is that the stock struts do not have internal bump stops (whereas Bilsteins do have internal ones). In theory I guess you would bottom out the strut and damage it if you hit a big pothole.
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Interesting, so you are saying that the sleeve is NOT inclusive of the washer?Originally Posted by eddycooper
I know that realoem seems to indicate that is the case, but the items that came off the car seem to indicate differently
The split boot that I showed in my last post looks to be a replacement, as the part number on it matches that of the new ones I ordered. However the one from the drivers side appears to be original to the car (Has a slightly different part number - same main number but a slightly different number at the end?) and also has the washer inside the plastic sleeve.
Here is the part number on the sleeves I just recently ordered(disregard the missing portion, i modified it while I was monkeying around yesterday, it looked identical prior to that):
Not sure the significance of the ‘HPO’ number. Is that some sort of revision number?
Thanks for the reminder about the internal bump stops on the Bilsteins. I totally blanked on that, but now remember that being included on other makes and models that I have owned.
I jury-rigged a bump stop solution in the interim until I wrestle the courage to take the strut apart again. i’ll likely also order the dust boots you kindly provided the PN for.
Metal zip ties for the win!
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Got the remainder of the front suspension in. Everything up front is now brand new. Center link, drag link, control arms, thrust arms, tie rod ends.
All strut hardware is also new.
Interestingly, I purchased new sway bar bushings, but they did not work. The PN on realoem is for a 23mm sway, and I have a 25mm sway up front.
23mm sway on the 25mm bar:
Here is the 25mm PN in case anyone needs it:
1 140 193
It will come up in realoem, but won’t cross reference to the 95 540/6.
Rant time again- the cheesehead that put this suspension back together last time was in LOVE with anti-seize, as he put it on EVERYTHING, including: steering plate bolts on the end of the strut: (the ones the bentley advises using red loctite on AFTER torquing to an ungodly large number)
Just one example. My bench was a sea of silver after washing all the bolts off. When I was disassembling the suspension I noted that some of the steering plate bolts were not only easy to remove, but in some cases, loose. Now I know why. I’m lucky that i chose to tear this thing apart when I did. Could have killed me, and who knows who else. Talk about an incompetent moron.
End rant.
Everything went back together nicely. I love having the bearing based control and thrust arms. Being able to torque them down in any position is SO much easier! I don’t know how you’d even get the thrust arm torqued correctly given the way its tucked away up in cross-memember.
Fun little video of the center link after I installed it.
https://youtu.be/Cg64ftKgrVk
Cleaned up the caliper pad surfaces before re-installing. A small file came in pretty handy. The surfaces are quite scored, so new calipers are probably in the future here. BBK maybe?!?
Installed the new front brake lines
And bled the system with my power bleeder. It was the first time I have done brake system work, and I found it super easy and satisfying.
The right rear caliper (first one to be bled) had a clogged bleeder. Once i was able to open it up with a drill bit, everything worked smoothly.
And the final gross results. Not sure how long it had been.
Did you guys know our brake fluid reservoir is NLA?! I wanted a new one to replace my old yellowed one, but I guess not!! Need to bleed the clutch too. The fluid there looks worse than the fluid in the brake reservoir. I’ll need to rig up a cap for my pressure bleeder first.
Finished up the day by adjusting the parking brake. Works much better now.
Last edited by a777fan; 03-29-2020 at 07:33 PM.
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BMW CCA Member
I believe the caps have the same thread to where you can use your pressure bleeder on the clutch reservoir. I have a Motive power bleeder that works on both reservoirs. I think the brake reservoir is NLA also. I wouldn't mind getting a new one as well.
95 540i6 M Sport - 95 525it S52/OBD2 - 433k E36 328i5 - X5D that hit a pothole - IG: @justinmurray95
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About the fluid reservoir, I've spoken with my local dealer about it because I've been trying to buy one for years. They're not quite NLA and it sounds like in this case BMW is likely just waiting for enough people to put in orders before they make a batch of them. So a while back I actually put in an order for a new one (ie. paid them)...and it could be months or even years before it actually gets made. I want a new one badly and there's really no other option because it's an unusual configuration (low profile to fit under the hood). You guys should put in orders too!
On the bump stops / sleeves, hopefully someone else will chime in. I'm not 100% sure on the setup and I went with the full-coverage bellows so mine looks different.
MORΩN ΛABIA
BMW CCA Member
Thank you! With this information, my Doomsday Device will soon be complete and all humanity will learn the true power of this armed and operational... I mean, er... my E34 spring database will be more complete. Yeah, database.
Sure enough, that's 5.5 coils. Not expected. Notice how the end coils are flatter than the middles? That's one of the subleties of coil spring design that, if ignored, is part of the reason cut springs are crap; the rate with these flatter coils becomes non-linear, with change points finely tuned to the actual mass of the car at each corner. In the spring equation K = Gd^4/8ND^3, the live coil count N is a function of how flat the coils are in relation to their seats.
Regarding dust boots/bellows: I used aftermarket KYB SB110 bellows that fit tightly on the bumpstops at the top, and are supposed to sit on a spacer ring at the bottom, but there I just ziptied them tight enough to not slip upward from the strut housing. That conical washer goes between the bumpstop and the strut mount. It has nothing to do with the bellows.
Those strut assemblies are beautifully clean!
Hm, I always put antiseize on just about everything, including those lower strut bolts, and they never gave me any trouble. Disassembling many years, miles, winters, summers, and adventures whose statute of limitations has yet to expire later, they were as tight as they should be, just cooperative and smooth after a word from the breaker bar. On the other hand, I've had a lot of trouble from antiseize being absent, on balljoint cones in particular.
Last edited by moroza; 03-29-2020 at 01:44 AM.
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Yes! Thanks for that. It must have been playing an optical illusion on me. I also have the motive bleeder, and I checked today and it works!
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Interesting on the fluid res. I will inquire with my parts supplier to see if they can add me to the list.
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No problem! Glad i could help with the development of your device.Thank you! With this information, my Doomsday Device will soon be complete and all humanity will learn the true power of this armed and operational... I mean, er... my E34 spring database will be more complete. Yeah, database.
Sure enough, that's 5.5 coils. Not expected. Notice how the end coils are flatter than the middles? That's one of the subleties of coil spring design that, if ignored, is part of the reason cut springs are crap; the rate with these flatter coils becomes non-linear, with change points finely tuned to the actual mass of the car at each corner. In the spring equation K = Gd^4/8ND^3, the live coil count N is a function of how flat the coils are in relation to their seats.
Regarding dust boots/bellows: I used aftermarket KYB SB110 bellows that fit tightly on the bumpstops at the top, and are supposed to sit on a spacer ring at the bottom, but there I just ziptied them tight enough to not slip upward from the strut housing. That conical washer goes between the bumpstop and the strut mount. It has nothing to do with the bellows.
Those strut assemblies are beautifully clean!
Hm, I always put antiseize on just about everything, including those lower strut bolts, and they never gave me any trouble. Disassembling many years, miles, winters, summers, and adventures whose statute of limitations has yet to expire later, they were as tight as they should be, just cooperative and smooth after a word from the breaker bar. On the other hand, I've had a lot of trouble from antiseize being absent, on balljoint cones in particular.
Interesting points on the spring chars. You have obviously put a lot of thought into this. All part of Mr. Doomsday i presume?
I generally don’t use anti-sieze on anything other than wheel hub mounting surfaces. And after this experience, I’ll likely stick to that philosophy.
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Back on all fours, and had a quick crappy wash to make it slightly less filthy.
Just waiting for the thermostat housing then ‘vroom-vrooom’ once again!!!
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MORΩN ΛABIA
BMW CCA Member
That is one of the spots where antiseize *shouldn't* go, except perhaps just on the centering ring. Friction between the wheel and the hub, from the clamping force of the bolts, is what makes the two rotate together. Too little friction loads the bolts in shear, a direction in which they are much weaker than in tension.
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Hmm. Good point on the hub surface itself.
I do stand by the application on the hub centric ring however. In fact it seemed like that was the only surface anti-seize wasn’t used on this car. Taking the back wheels off this weekend was more challenging than it should have been.
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Your 540 is looking good!
You're not far from driving it again! All your work will be well worth the wait.
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Thanks!
God i hope so! Final parts should be here this week, and i hope to be driving it this weekend.
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YAAAAAAAAAAS!
MORΩN ΛABIA
BMW CCA Member
Plastic
Member
Indeed.Plastic
AND!
Same clearance issue!!!
Both the housing and t-stat PN check out on realoem, and they are both OE parts.
Is this the way they are supposed to fit together?! I would think not...
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That’s odd they don’t line up, but maybe a blessing in disguise since your housing isn’t metal.Indeed.
AND!
Same clearance issue!!!
Both the housing and t-stat PN check out on realoem, and they are both OE parts.
Is this the way they are supposed to fit together?! I would think not...
You can buy an aluminum housing like this one:
https://www.bimmerworld.com/Cooling/...8-740-E31.html
As for the thermostat- I used an E32 750i thermostat when I replaced them pump in my 540i.
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very cool! so did you re do the carpet or just detail it heavily
MORΩN ΛABIA
BMW CCA Member
I too used an 85C 750iL thermostat in my M62, and gained ~5-10% economy after switching back to a 95C. No longer recommend the former.
Plastic belongs in sporks. It's an inappropriate material for containing pressurized coolant.
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I also used an e32 750iL 85C thermostat on my m60 740iL when I did a cooling system overhaul. I have not noticed a decrease in fuel economy, but in terms of thermal efficiency of a combustion engine a hotter thermostat should return better fuel economy. The coolant gauge always runs a needle-width left of center (it used to run just a tick right of center). Years ago I recorded the calculated fuel economy (at fill-up) for every tank for about a year in one of my e32s, I don't recall any decrease in gas mileage after going to an 85c thermostat, but now I'm curious. I'll look back in the spreadsheet and see if there is a notable decrease in fuel efficiency after the change in thermostat temp, because in theory it should be lower.
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Well this is quite embarrassing.
The new OE thermostat housing, as well as the previous aluminum Üro piece do NOT have an issue with the thermostat clearance. Unfortunately I only figured this out after modifying the OE thermostat I purchased.
The origin of my issues in this case is realoem. Check out this parts diagram:
Do NOT assemble your thermostat housing this way. The O-ring does NOT go under the thermostat. It goes OVER the thermostat. Like this:
Sheesh. What a bonehead I am. I remember thinking while assembling it the realoem way that something didn’t seem right. Sure enough after filling the system up and pressure testing it, i had a massive leak at the thermostat housing mating surface.
With the gasket in the right spot, on TOP of the thermostat, there is no longer a clearance issue with the bleeding nipple.
I mentioned that I had already clearanced my OE thermostat. :/ went from this:
To this:
The check ball no longer stays in the check valve, which wasn’t a problem when the housing was butting up against the check valve. Unfortunately with the gasket in the right spot, the ball falls out easily. I left it out rather than trying to kludge something up. I’ll see if it runs any cooler. *shrug*
Whatever.
Buttoned up the rest of the cooling system. Installed the new viscous fan. And bled the clutch.
Went from this:
To this:
The waste:
Runs great!
https://youtu.be/XjbDkSdhMek
Took it for a toot around the block. Still no front bumper or headlights
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Wow that old clutch fluid must have been like trying to change gears with a sponge under your left foot!! There will be a significant difference with the new stuff haha.
I think I also made the same mistake with the thermostat o-ring and then put it all back together, filled it up and it started pouring out lol.
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Yeah. It was gross. Does feel a lot better on the uptake now.
Hehe. Yeah. Its a pisser. Oh well. Comes right up to temp (at least on the gage...) so maybe no long term harm.
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