Best Advice if You Witness Car Fire on Track?

[Dubbedown]

On my way up to the track this past weekend, I witnessed a pretty crazy car fire on the shoulder on the opposite side of the highway. Given that it was pretty early in the morning, there weren't a ton of cars on the road but a few drivers pulled over and attempted to help. But the fire was so big nobody could get even get within 2 feet of the door. I immediately pulled over and called 911 who informed me troopers were on their way but it was too late.

This got me thinking, what if you're on track and you see a fellow driver get in trouble? My first instinct would be to pull over to the side in a safe spot but am I really better off staying put and waiting for corner workers/emergency crew? I know getting out and running on track presents other dangers so maybe it depends on the scenario (how close you are to driver, if driver is able to get him/herself out, etc.). But all week I've been thinking about that unfortunate driver...

[jimmypet]

By the book, you should never do anything like what is described as "your first instinct".
You have a much greater potential to cause multiples more accidents if you do something unpredictable.
Be predictable.
Follow the instructions you received in Comp School.
Watch the flags, do what the flags say to do, trust that the corner workers / emergency crews to do what they trained to do.
You trained to be a driver and to read the flags and be predictable by following those protocols.
They trained to save people.

[aeronaut]

By the book, you should never do anything like what is described as "your first instinct".
You have a much greater potential to cause multiples more accidents if you do something unpredictable.
Be predictable.
Follow the instructions you received in Comp School.
Watch the flags, do what the flags say to do, trust that the corner workers / emergency crews to do what they trained to do.
You trained to be a driver and to read the flags and be predictable by following those protocols.
They trained to save people.

THIS. PERIOD.
A whole set of events are in motion. Get and Stay out of the way, which is what the track will be telling you with flags, etc.
It is certainly difficult when we see another human being in need of emergency help.

[olemiss540]

Am I the closest to the emergency? Is the driver still in the car? Do I have a fire extinguisher?

Tough call but I HPDE with multiple close relations and I cant believe anyone on this forum would be able to sit in their track car and watch the fire engulf a brother/friend since the insurance rules state you should remain in the vehicle....

Not to be dramatic but this is definitely my biggest nightmare.

[ScotcH]

Am I the closest to the emergency? Is the driver still in the car? Do I have a fire extinguisher?

Tough call but I HPDE with multiple close relations and I cant believe anyone on this forum would be able to sit in their track car and watch the fire engulf a brother/friend since the insurance rules state you should remain in the vehicle....

Not to be dramatic but this is definitely my biggest nightmare.

HPDE is a tough call … fewer workers, flaggers, and probably emergency response than in a race weekend. If I had a portable fire extinguisher, I'd be tempted to try and help in an HPDE scenario. In a race, for sure I'd let the safety teams handle it … And in most race cars, you don't have a removable fire bottle anyway, so you'd be unlikely to do anything anyway

[aeronaut]

Agreed, TUFF call, we're all human afterall. But the DEFAULT should be, stay in car and let safety crew do their thing. There are so many things that could go wrong. Where do you stop your car? Pull off track next to other car? Across from the track? Run across track? How does the safety crew know which car needs help? Will they think both cars need help? Will they think you're the person that was in the burning car, and seek to help you rather than the person IN the burning car?

I know the worst case scenario is horrendous. It's always a game time call, but it can turn into chaos very very quickly. So the right standard answer is; stay in your car.

[jimmypet]

Am I the closest to the emergency? Is the driver still in the car? Do I have a fire extinguisher?

Tough call but I HPDE with multiple close relations and I cant believe anyone on this forum would be able to sit in their track car and watch the fire engulf a brother/friend since the insurance rules state you should remain in the vehicle....

Not to be dramatic but this is definitely my biggest nightmare.

I dont thnk you are fully grasping the chaos that can occur with cars on a race track when someone does something completely off the playbook.
Cars are moving fast, flaggers are trying to get control of the field / run group so they can roll Emergency vehicles.
The very LAST thing you want to do is let emotions run your brain and complicate that process.

[olemiss540]

I dont thnk you are fully grasping the chaos that can occur with cars on a race track when someone does something completely off the playbook.
Cars are moving fast, flaggers are trying to get control of the field / run group so they can roll Emergency vehicles.
The very LAST thing you want to do is let emotions run your brain and complicate that process.

I have ZERO grasp on the chaos from a racing perspective but am only speaking from my personal experience with HPDE events. Not my first or even 10th year on track, so just giving my perspective if one of my close friends/family was on fire and I was sitting red flagged right next to the flames.

I know you have more experience than most but was giving an opinion, maybe things arent as black and white as you teach in classroom.

[emoore924]

I can speak from personal experience. And all I can say is you won't know what you'll do until you're confronted with the situation.

I was at a DE at Pocono years ago - back when they had the boilerplate walls. I was paddocked at the south end of the main straight where the cars came out onto the straight on the IMSA course and turn right to go "backwards" down the main straight. I heard a bad spin and didn't see anything until the car hit the inside wall and did a 270 in the air *above* the height of the wall (about 4 feet in the air). A very big hit. The car (911) burst the oil cooler and immediately caught fire. I could see this and immediately started yelling FIRE FIRE as loud as I could and grabbed my portable halon extinguisher out of my car and ran down the paddock side of the pit wall, then over into the pit lane until I was just on the pit side of where the car had come to rest.

I could see the passenger door was open and the instructor was out of the car on the ground but very near the flames. I looked into the open door and could not see the driver's seat because of the flames. As the instructor crawled out of the way, I hopped over the wall and squirted the halon inside the car to see if the driver was out or not. Fortunately, (halon is amazing stuff) I was able to knock the flames down enough to see the driver was NOT in the car. By that time, the CI was with me and we hit the inside of the car with both our halon bottles and we could see the driver was singed but out of the car on the ground to driver's left. At that point we unloaded the rest of the halon and helped the driver and instructor away from the still-flaming car, conscious but confused. Rescue arrived and took care of the people and put out what was left of the car.

The instructor was shaken up but ok. Driver was singed and pretty concussed and spent the night in hospital. Nothing horrible and recovered after a couple of days. All I could see in my dreams that night was the image of that car spinning above the wall then the fire. I bought a new 3.2a/5 fire suit first thing that Monday. And since that day many many years ago, I have NEVER been on-track without full safety equipment including fire suit, HANS, etc.

So, if you are ever confronted with such circumstances, you will need to decide for yourself what you can live with. For me personally, if I am the only person standing between another human being and them potentially meeting their maker at something stupid like a DE or a race, I will absolutely stop and do whatever I can to keep that from happening, each time, every time.

Sorry, even after all this time this is still not an easy story to tell so I won't post on this thread again...

[ScotcH]

Damn dude … worst nightmare for sure. Glad you were there to help.

[olemiss540]

Wow. Much love to you for doing something so selfless. Sorry you had to witness something so horrific but super happy of the outcome!

[Dubbedown]

A lot of good info here, agree that default action is to stay put and not cause any unpredictability for others but depending on the situation it may warrant other action. I sold my track car and been events here and there with my street car, which as of yesterday has a 2.5lb HalGuard extinguisher mounted under passenger seat.

[jimmypet]

I have ZERO grasp on the chaos from a racing perspective but am only speaking from my personal experience with HPDE events. Not my first or even 10th year on track, so just giving my perspective if one of my close friends/family was on fire and I was sitting red flagged right next to the flames.

I know you have more experience than most but was giving an opinion, maybe things arent as black and white as you teach in classroom.

The potential on track impact of stopping a car on a hot or yellow track, exiting it and trying to become an impromptu Emergency worker is the same race or DE or Open Track Day, or Time Trial, or insert track event.
It could cause way more bad things to happen to more people you share the track with (including yourself).
If you dont think I am correct, pose the question in your next drivers meeting. Thats it, thats all I got.

[TheJuggernaut]

The potential on track impact of stopping a car on a hot or yellow track, exiting it and trying to become an impromptu Emergency worker is the same race or DE or Open Track Day, or Time Trial, or insert track event.
It could cause way more bad things to happen to more people you share the track with (including yourself).
If you dont think I am correct, pose the question in your next drivers meeting. Thats it, thats all I got.

+1 to everything you've posted and I'd also add that the average DE student and especially lapper is far less situationally aware than the average racer. I'd also add that the unfortunate story posted above is an entirely different ballgame. Running from the pits or elsewhere off track with the extinguisher to help, is not the same thing as stopping another car on a hot track and jumping out. Besides the added chaos and chance of collision with another car, I'd also suggest that you're endangering the people tasked with the job (they're running to the scene, you're driving a racecar...).

This is more of a personal philosophy but I also don't agree with the idea of waiting to see how you'll react until it happens. Those decisions are a coin flip at best. The more scenarios you can think of and decide the best course of action when not under duress, the better (and if that is to pull over, get out and help and face the consequences, so be it, but better to decide now than in the moment).

[olemiss540]

The potential on track impact of stopping a car on a hot or yellow track, exiting it and trying to become an impromptu Emergency worker is the same race or DE or Open Track Day, or Time Trial, or insert track event.
It could cause way more bad things to happen to more people you share the track with (including yourself).
If you dont think I am correct, pose the question in your next drivers meeting. Thats it, thats all I got.

I think you are entirely correct that your response is exactly what they would recite during the drivers briefing. Thanks and appreciate you sharing your opinion and adding further detail.