Results 1 to 20 of 20

Thread: Calling all e24 specialists please

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Location
    Copenhagen, Denmark
    Posts
    7
    My Cars
    BMW 635CSI

    Calling all e24 specialists please

    Calling all e24 specialists please
    I am in a very unfortunate situation where I have bought two cars and a trailer. It’s a very long and boring history, but this deal has turned out to be a total nightmare and I have lost thousands of money, but worst – I have been fooled big time. Lessons learned, but I really (desperately) need you help to secure my 635Csi property.

    The story in very short version; I bought a BMW 2002Ti, a BMW 635Csi and one trailer from one guy here in Denmark. I paid in full for the two cars and the trailer, took the 2002ti (which showed not to be a Ti, but just a standard 2002 with fraudant paperwork) on the trailer and drove of, with an agreement that I could pickup my 635Csi later on.
    This 635Csi was without paperwork, and was in the process of beeing transformed to a race car. The sales paper work, stated that I bought a 635Csi 1982 (no more info on the contract unfortunately)

    When I returned to the seller to pickup my 635CSI, I was basically show off to pick up a scrap yard car without doors, windows, hood etc. (a completely different car) and ofcause the VIN number had been cut out, so no prof of origin and age etc. on this scrap car.
    I have now gone to the courts/lawyers with the intent to get hold of the car I have paid for, but I have no knowledge about how to identify what year the chassis is on the scrap yard car (I don’t even have the scrap yard car in my possession).

    Now to the question for the e24 specialists – How can I tell what year the scrap yard chassis is, when VIN, engine etc. has been removed???

    If I can show prof of the chassi is not the 1982 chassis stated in my sales papers, I might have a chance to get hold of my car.

    Please gents – can anyone help me out... would really appreciate it BIG TIME
    Have a great day and thanks for reading this relative long post

    Best,
    Stefan

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Scottsdale, Arizona
    Posts
    4,885
    My Cars
    81 euro 635, 4.4 X5
    If you knew what you were doing or had a knowledgeable friend You as far as I know you basically can only seperate identity between an early, pre 82 car and a post 82 car as the suspension is entirely different. The changes within the post 82 cars and up are minuscule and would be hard to especially with the car being stripped. Is the motor still in the car" Their will be number stamped n a flat spot on the engine block right above the starter. Not necessarily the vin but BMW Mobi Traditions might be able to tell you what car that engine was in originally, On the early cars pre 82 there are date codes stamped into the top of the differential case, maybe on the post 82 cars as well>
    81 Euro undergoing total nut and bolt restoration
    pictures at: flickr.com/photos/bertsphotos

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Location
    Copenhagen, Denmark
    Posts
    7
    My Cars
    BMW 635CSI
    Quote Originally Posted by Bert Poliakoff View Post
    If you knew what you were doing or had a knowledgeable friend You as far as I know you basically can only seperate identity between an early, pre 82 car and a post 82 car as the suspension is entirely different. The changes within the post 82 cars and up are minuscule and would be hard to especially with the car being stripped. Is the motor still in the car" Their will be number stamped n a flat spot on the engine block right above the starter. Not necessarily the vin but BMW Mobi Traditions might be able to tell you what car that engine was in originally, On the early cars pre 82 there are date codes stamped into the top of the differential case, maybe on the post 82 cars as well>
    Thanks Bert,

    Much appriciated - any chance that you have some reference pictures that show the differences ?

    That car is striped out and with no engine, so no chance that way.

    These are the pictures I have at hand for the moment are very low res, but I am seeking better material thru the courts at the moment

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Scottsdale, Arizona
    Posts
    4,885
    My Cars
    81 euro 635, 4.4 X5
    Very hard to see in pictures. Was the vin cut from the upper right hand side of the firewall?? If you don't know someone who knows these cars I think you are shit out of luck as you aren't going to learn the differences from pictures as you won't pick up the difference in detail very easily. Maybe he missed the vin on the firewall.Is the car totally stripped to the shell? Various parts could give you a hint. Is the heater valve in the car? in a pre 82 car it looks like a hockey puck and is located in the drivers foot well. There are many little details but if the car is stripped they won't be there to find. The heater controls are different and on and on but you have to have something to work with. Post pictures if you do and maybe we can help you
    Last edited by Bert Poliakoff; 07-11-2019 at 01:59 AM.
    81 Euro undergoing total nut and bolt restoration
    pictures at: flickr.com/photos/bertsphotos

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    North Alabama
    Posts
    897
    My Cars
    .
    Get me some pictures and I can tell you what it is. I don't care how bad it is stripped.

    To make it simple look at the top of the front shock towers. There are 3 bolts holes for the shock tower, it makes a triangle. 2 holes closest to the engine is 82 and up, 1 hole closest to the engine 81 down.

    Rear tow hook, if it is a circle 81 down. Half moon is 82 up.

    I can keep going all day.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    CarHeavan
    Posts
    77
    My Cars
    Forced Induction!
    Agreed, if you post pictures we can assist.

    Sorry to read your situation, this is horrible.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Sydney Australa
    Posts
    2,482
    My Cars
    1x633, 1x E3 2 DR Racer
    The VIN number should also be on the chassis. Sometimes they fail to take off both numbers. The VIN in the engine bay is easy to find and east to take off. To take the VIN off the chassis you need to jack the car up. They may have missed this.

    On my old race engine the vin was rear left of the engine on this flat plate.

    Engine No.JPG

    We can also tell from suspension. Front and rear subframes. Diff type. Bumper type.

    Bert is correct however that we can easily tell between e12 and e28 chassis but harder to get exact year models right other than pre of post mid 1982.

    Take heaps of photos and we can take a look. Sorry to hear you were ripped off. Has happened to us all at one time or another. Not a good feeling. We wish you all he best with this.
    1977 633 CSi RHD Euro. S38B38 3.9L M5 Transplant. 5 Speed Getrag Dogleg. 3.73 LSD. 417hp, 369lb/ft
    1971 3.0CS E3 2dr Alpina Special Coupe Racer, 347hp, 295lb/ft

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Scottsdale, Arizona
    Posts
    4,885
    My Cars
    81 euro 635, 4.4 X5
    A picture of the differential is a quick way to start then of the shock towers as another member has already stated. If the engine is in the car and hopefully the original one the vin will be where Shipper pointed out in his picture, 3 quick ways to start that are obvious. If an early 82 the differential casting will have a year of manufacture and month of manufacture cast and stamped into the top of the housing as well.Of course you have to have access to the car to start carrying tyhrough with any of these steps
    81 Euro undergoing total nut and bolt restoration
    pictures at: flickr.com/photos/bertsphotos

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Location
    Copenhagen, Denmark
    Posts
    7
    My Cars
    BMW 635CSI
    Bert, Shipper, BMW Performance, Slownrust and Co.

    I have now finally got hold of better pictures. I hope you are still up for the challenge in regard to settle year and type of this vehicle.

    I need to establish proof of this is not a 1982 nor a 635CSi car. All help are much appreciated

    Please have a look on these photos https://flickr.com/photos/186352591@...57712574474713

    Best
    Stefan
    Attached Images Attached Images

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    WINSTON SALEM, NC
    Posts
    6,497
    My Cars
    07 RAMHEMi - H&B 630csi
    two different cars in the pictures...

    and theres a very clear photo of the vin in one of them ...

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Location
    Copenhagen, Denmark
    Posts
    7
    My Cars
    BMW 635CSI
    Sorry, you are absolutely right - I have removed the incorrect pictures (they belong to the car I believe I bought)

    My own findings, so far:

    The speedometer only goes to 240km/t = 628Csi
    The doors have a sticker stating tyre pressure for 628Csi
    The engine block has a number 1270002, which seems to belong to a 528i M30 engine which was also used in the 628Csi

    What would nail it totally in court, would be some evidence on the chassis??? Anyone???

    All pictures has been checked now and the incorrect have been removed - sorry

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    asheville, nc
    Posts
    151
    My Cars
    89 635CSi & 87 MB 560SL
    I'm not an expert, this is my observation.
    The Vin # 8171405 indicates EUR, 9/82 build, LH, Manual.
    Shock tower bolt location indicates year 82 and up.
    Toe hook (looks like an oblong half circle to me) indicates year 82 up.
    Center console photo indicates an automatic trans.

    Stefan, your 1st post stated no engine in the car, I'm confused.

    Looking forward to the Specialists responses.

    Roger
    Last edited by roger hanley; 01-08-2020 at 02:35 PM.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Location
    Copenhagen, Denmark
    Posts
    7
    My Cars
    BMW 635CSI
    Hi Roger,

    the VIN you found is for the car I was presented for and actually bought (please ignore this VIN as it was a faulty upload)

    The car on the other pictures has the VIN removed hence my search for the real identity of the scrap yard vehicle

    Regarding my first post, you are absolutely right and it is a long explanation. I short - I was presented for a 635CSI which I bought and paid for. When I gave my notice to collect that car, the seller stated that he sold it to someone else. After I presented him for my lawyers, he change his story to “I still have the car, come and collect it” followed by a scan of a picture, showing this scrap yard car. I have never seen this scrap yard car in person, and the seller told me that there was no engine nor transmission in it. By mid December, my lawyer got the courts permission to go and have a look at the two cars, and this was when we saw that it actually have both the engine and trans in it (I was told differently earlier on)

    Hope it makes sense.

    It is by far the most ludicrous car sales I’ve ever participated in, and I basically bought the car (the 635Csi) very impulsive without researching the seller (he has done it before, but apparently I am the only one who have tried to stop him continuing his criminal behavior)

    Hopefully I can get enough evidence to get the court to acknowledge that this scarp yard car, has never been a 635Csi alternatively not a year model 1982, which figures on the sales contract.

    Thanks for your attention
    Stefan
    Last edited by E24hope4help; 01-08-2020 at 02:40 PM.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Sydney Australa
    Posts
    2,482
    My Cars
    1x633, 1x E3 2 DR Racer
    Do you have the original advertising for the cars? Surely they did not advertise an absolute scrap heap?? Can I ask how much you paid for the 635 (noting that you expected to drive a decent car).

    The ad must have had details. Can you get them for false advertisement and get your money back that way.

    Finally, who are they, we can name and shame them.
    1977 633 CSi RHD Euro. S38B38 3.9L M5 Transplant. 5 Speed Getrag Dogleg. 3.73 LSD. 417hp, 369lb/ft
    1971 3.0CS E3 2dr Alpina Special Coupe Racer, 347hp, 295lb/ft

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Scottsdale, Arizona
    Posts
    4,885
    My Cars
    81 euro 635, 4.4 X5
    Based on the shock towers and fuel injection manifold and I think the HVAC panel the car is no earlier than an 82 model year car. That injection system was first used on May 81 production cars but with early suspension. Your shock towers show the later suspension which shows 82 and later model year. A picture of the differential and the front suspension will nail it down as to whether or not it is a post or pre 82 car and that will tell you if you have something to go by
    81 Euro undergoing total nut and bolt restoration
    pictures at: flickr.com/photos/bertsphotos

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Location
    Copenhagen, Denmark
    Posts
    7
    My Cars
    BMW 635CSI
    @Shipper,

    The 635 was never advertised.

    The guy advertised a boogie trailer as well as a BMW 2002ti race car, and I went to him to buy the trailer only. He had a massive garage with loads of cars, and when I saw the 2002ti I couldn’t resist and agreed to buy that one, to put on the trailer I just bought from him. 10 mins later I saw the 635Csi, and I agreed to buy that one as well, but couldn’t bring it with at the time as I only had the one car trailer, and then add up the rest of the story.)

    On a second note - the 2002Ti I bought from him, turned out to be a std. 2002 with Webers, ti struts etc, but not a real 2002Ti as sold and advertised- obviously I have the lawyers on that matter as well !!!. Even the Title/registration was tampered to show 2002Ti, but BMW Germany was very helpful and could easily determine that i was not a real 2002Ti, so that matter is just down to how much money I should have as a compensation.

    Again - I have been dealing cars on hobby basis for nearly 35 years, and I have never experienced anything like this.

    Name and Shame - like the idea, but no ....not before just has been served pls.

    I will elaborate in due time.
    Last edited by E24hope4help; 01-09-2020 at 02:57 AM.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Location
    Copenhagen, Denmark
    Posts
    7
    My Cars
    BMW 635CSI
    Thanks Bert, seems like it’s 100% a post 82 car. I think the cluster around the gears stick gives it away as well as they seemed to be different in 81.

    Based on these great input from this forum, is there any way we can show that the car is (potential) a 83/84, or does anyone have knowledge of chassis differences between 628Csi vs 635Csi in the years 82-85?

    I tried to determine the date based on the LapisBlau color, but that was used widely in 81-end of produktion

    Quote Originally Posted by Bert Poliakoff View Post
    Based on the shock towers and fuel injection manifold and I think the HVAC panel the car is no earlier than an 82 model year car. That injection system was first used on May 81 production cars but with early suspension. Your shock towers show the later suspension which shows 82 and later model year. A picture of the differential and the front suspension will nail it down as to whether or not it is a post or pre 82 car and that will tell you if you have something to go by

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Scottsdale, Arizona
    Posts
    4,885
    My Cars
    81 euro 635, 4.4 X5
    Front suspension and rear differential will for sure show it as a post 82 car. The shock towers already do. Take very clear pictures of them. The one thing missing is production date. If it was built May of 82 it could very well have the later features that is why the vin is so important. On the post 82 cars, the engine number and vin usually didn't match. On the outer firewall panel, the panel the wiper motors and intensive window washer tank sit behind, the one in front of the firewall, in the upper right hand side, when you are standing in front of the car looking back, the vin should be clearly stamped in there along the upper edge. At least it is on the early cars,. I still think take a picture of the suspension and differential and let us see it and that will give you enough info to go after him.
    81 Euro undergoing total nut and bolt restoration
    pictures at: flickr.com/photos/bertsphotos

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Sydney Australa
    Posts
    2,482
    My Cars
    1x633, 1x E3 2 DR Racer
    Quote Originally Posted by E24hope4help View Post
    @Shipper,

    The 635 was never advertised.

    The guy advertised a boogie trailer as well as a BMW 2002ti race car, and I went to him to buy the trailer only. He had a massive garage with loads of cars, and when I saw the 2002ti I couldn’t resist and agreed to buy that one, to put on the trailer I just bought from him. 10 mins later I saw the 635Csi, and I agreed to buy that one as well, but couldn’t bring it with at the time as I only had the one car trailer, and then add up the rest of the story.)

    On a second note - the 2002Ti I bought from him, turned out to be a std. 2002 with Webers, ti struts etc, but not a real 2002Ti as sold and advertised- obviously I have the lawyers on that matter as well !!!. Even the Title/registration was tampered to show 2002Ti, but BMW Germany was very helpful and could easily determine that i was not a real 2002Ti, so that matter is just down to how much money I should have as a compensation.

    Again - I have been dealing cars on hobby basis for nearly 35 years, and I have never experienced anything like this.

    Name and Shame - like the idea, but no ....not before just has been served pls.

    I will elaborate in due time.
    All understood. I've had bad dealings with dishonest people as well. Unfortunately there are a lot of dirty filthy stinky grubs out there trying to defraud people.

    Wishing you all success with this process.
    1977 633 CSi RHD Euro. S38B38 3.9L M5 Transplant. 5 Speed Getrag Dogleg. 3.73 LSD. 417hp, 369lb/ft
    1971 3.0CS E3 2dr Alpina Special Coupe Racer, 347hp, 295lb/ft

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Brookfield,CT
    Posts
    1,964
    My Cars
    '92 325IC '88 635
    I believe another place the VIN is stamped is behind the rear seat someplace on the wall behind it. This piece of information sticks in my mind but I cannot confirm it for sure. Maybe someone else can confirm. I know there is more than one place where the VIN can be found.
    '88 635, '92 325IC

Similar Threads

  1. calling Tuning Specialists Please help me
    By chicagoz3coupe in forum Forced Induction
    Replies: 31
    Last Post: 02-02-2011, 08:15 PM
  2. Call me crazy but please chop this
    By Tuff Guy in forum BMW Rides & Events
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 09-15-2006, 03:35 PM
  3. Pic request. Alpine white E24's please
    By Al Canuck in forum 1976 - 1989 (E24)
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 02-16-2005, 10:45 PM
  4. roll call: white e36's please check in
    By BADASS_R6 in forum BMW Rides & Events
    Replies: 58
    Last Post: 09-10-2004, 09:21 AM
  5. Jim - Need to call upon your expertise please ...
    By alexm520 in forum Tire & Wheel Forum sponsored by The Tire Rack
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 06-20-2003, 11:24 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •