resurfacing block screwup

[Breeze1]

My 0.02$ : even after doing a simple ECU flash, it takes my car at least 50-70 miles of driving under various conditions and temps for my AFR readings to get back where they're supposed to be. While this is not directly related (software/mechanical changes), it makes me think that these things need some time to get used to a new "environment" and perform under optimal conditions. If I were you I'd just drive a couple of hundred miles and a few highway runs as suggested by ross1 and see how things go before doing anythhing.

[ross1]

If the steam in the exhaust doesn't smell like coolant, and barring any other running problems, I would just live with the excessive condensation coming out of the exhaust.

He's running water in it.
If water is getting in the combustion chambers then coolant(water) is certainly going into the cooling system. There is a chemical test for this.
Unless the cooling system is over pressurizing, it's consuming coolant or overheating I'd just run it and see.
If heads were properly torqued DON'T F around with them or you just might pull threads from the block. THEN you ARE screwed.

[bimmer7410]

He's running water in it.
If water is getting in the combustion chambers then coolant(water) is certainly going into the cooling system. There is a chemical test for this.
Unless the cooling system is over pressurizing, it's consuming coolant or overheating I'd just run it and see.
If heads were properly torqued DON'T F around with them or you just might pull threads from the block. THEN you ARE screwed.

I think im past that stage. Pulled the dipstick and the oil level was higher that it was before, among the oil being very "runny". Either way, im due some more labor before my project hits the road.
Main thing holding me up is the thought of doing those valve covers while in the cramped e60 engine bay. Yikes

[ross1]

I think im past that stage. Pulled the dipstick and the oil level was higher that it was before, among the oil being very "runny". Either way, im due some more labor before my project hits the road.
Main thing holding me up is the thought of doing those valve covers while in the cramped e60 engine bay. Yikes

Ah, sorry to hear that, I had hopes this would be okay for you.
Me,(being hard headed) at this stage would give another go at torqueing the head bolts. Nothing to lose.

If water is mixing with the oil it will be milky looking, you didn't mention this.
Did you ever examine the block and head surfaces with a straight edge?

[bimmer7410]

Ah, sorry to hear that, I had hopes this would be okay for you.
Me,(being hard headed) at this stage would give another go at torqueing the head bolts. Nothing to lose.

If water is mixing with the oil it will be milky looking, you didn't mention this.
Did you ever examine the block and head surfaces with a straight edge?

I'm going to drain the oil and ill let you know, but it was a lot thinner than I thought it should be.
I did. The variance was just out of spec on the surface which divides the cylinders. Those were the lowest, when measured from corner to corner, diagonally. I think I mentioned the actual measurements earlier in the thread
The areas with the oil and coolant passages were just fine when measuring left to right.

Honestly..being afraid the inner cylinder portions wouldnt fully seal due to the thousandth out of spec, I might have tightened the bolts in that area a couple degrees tighter than the outermost bolts. When I think about it, this may have a bowing effect.

This past week I've been thinking of a plan so I get can get back at it.
I think it might be prudent to get a new set of head bolts and just follow the TIS procedure once more. Only issue is each time I do this, its $27 per head.

[roninB4]

Did you check the block/head(s) with the motor out of the car or in? Always better to check, when possible, with an indicator on a surface plate. Even if the bloc can't be removed the head certainly can be checked. I understand that not everybody has the instruments or an appropriate surface plate but a local machine shop would for a few bucks. Using a feeler gauge is ok to verify flatness when it seems well within tolerance. If using a feeler gauge shows a borderline condition it's a crap shoot to re-install and hope for the best (yes I've done that too). Better profile/flatness mapping comes from using an indicator. It's a lot of work to re-install only to have to pull it out later (which may not show up for a while). Not piling on here, I'm sorry it didn't work out for you this time. I'm just offering this to others in a similar situation that may not be familiar with inspection instruments. Hope it works out for you next time.

[bimmer7410]

Did you check the block/head(s) with the motor out of the car or in? Always better to check, when possible, with an indicator on a surface plate. Even if the bloc can't be removed the head certainly can be checked. I understand that not everybody has the instruments or an appropriate surface plate but a local machine shop would for a few bucks. Using a feeler gauge is ok to verify flatness when it seems well within tolerance. If using a feeler gauge shows a borderline condition it's a crap shoot to re-install and hope for the best (yes I've done that too). Better profile/flatness mapping comes from using an indicator. It's a lot of work to re-install only to have to pull it out later (which may not show up for a while). Not piling on here, I'm sorry it didn't work out for you this time. I'm just offering this to others in a similar situation that may not be familiar with inspection instruments. Hope it works out for you next time.

Late reply
Yes, the heads were resurfaced by a machine shop, and I purchased a set of feeler gauges and a straight edge for checking the block.
The iffy parts of this is that I never applied the straight edge to check on the shops work on the heads, and the straight edge did find very small out of tolerance range for the walls between cylinders.

I'd taken a break from my project, but I will be digging back in now.

I drained the oil and found NO WATER within it.
What this means to me is
1) either I am mistaken about the water vapor (I still doubt this, water vapor should definitely not be visible after 20+ minutes of running), or
2) water is escaping from the water channel in the head and making its way into the cylinder

I began to take it apart in preparation of removing the PITA valve covers, but I think I am going to put some fresh oil in and use this block tester I just purchased to be sure that combustion gasses are entering the coolant. That would settle it beyond a doubt.

[ross1]

Late reply
Yes, the heads were resurfaced by a machine shop, and I purchased a set of feeler gauges and a straight edge for checking the block.
The iffy parts of this is that I never applied the straight edge to check on the shops work on the heads, and the straight edge did find very small out of tolerance range for the walls between cylinders.

I'd taken a break from my project, but I will be digging back in now.

I drained the oil and found NO WATER within it.
What this means to me is
1) either I am mistaken about the water vapor (I still doubt this, water vapor should definitely not be visible after 20+ minutes of running), or
2) water is escaping from the water channel in the head and making its way into the cylinder

I began to take it apart in preparation of removing the PITA valve covers, but I think I am going to put some fresh oil in and use this block tester I just purchased to be sure that combustion gasses are entering the coolant. That would settle it beyond a doubt.

I've forgotten your beginning scenario but if it was consuming coolant before there could still be a LOT of it trapped in the exhaust system.
Check for the combustion gasses before dismantling. Be careful not to suck up coolant in the tester.

[bimmer7410]

I've forgotten your beginning scenario but if it was consuming coolant before there could still be a LOT of it trapped in the exhaust system.
Check for the combustion gasses before dismantling. Be careful not to suck up coolant in the tester.

Roger that

[bimmer7410]

Update

Finally procured block tester and did some testing.
Looks like there is indeed combustion gasses in the coolant, as suspected.

Bought a new compression tester and tested all cylinders.
Getting good readings in all cylinders besides 2. See below

Cylinder	PSI
1	205
2	220
3	210
4	185
5	210
6	155!
7	190
8	205

My next question is will I be able to get away with servicing the passenger bank only, since it appears that the coolant is getting in between cylinder 6 and 7..
Also looks like I may have an issue on 4..

[ross1]

Lets see the spark plugs

[roninB4]

Late reply
Yes, the heads were resurfaced by a machine shop, and I purchased a set of feeler gauges and a straight edge for checking the block.
The iffy parts of this is that I never applied the straight edge to check on the shops work on the heads, and the straight edge did find very small out of tolerance range for the walls between cylinders. .

-Not to be nasty or critical of the work from others but I've seen work from "professional" shops that is clearly sub-standard. I have discovered bad/poor workmanship with the measuring instruments I use(d) on the job as a toolmaker. My point is that while one would hope that paying for workmanship means professional results it is important to double check the work they often assume you won't or can't. Even "professionals" sometimes try to hide or miss mistakes. Make sure you're getting what you paid for, everybody has a bad day now and then. Even me. Hope this problem gets sorted for the OP.

[bimmer7410]

-Not to be nasty or critical of the work from others but I've seen work from "professional" shops that is clearly sub-standard. I have discovered bad/poor workmanship with the measuring instruments I use(d) on the job as a toolmaker. My point is that while one would hope that paying for workmanship means professional results it is important to double check the work they often assume you won't or can't. Even "professionals" sometimes try to hide or miss mistakes. Make sure you're getting what you paid for, everybody has a bad day now and then. Even me. Hope this problem gets sorted for the OP.

I did consider that maybe they didnt do the work correctly. I didnt take the straight edge to the cylinder head mating surfaces because they had good ratings (and because im still a NOOB at this )
It does seem like I may have dodged a bullet. I tightened the two bolts between the problematic cylinder (about 20-30 degrees each) and took my time with getting the PITA valve cover back into place.
I then did a series of compression tests, and all the passenger side ratings were between 177-180PSI
Its possible that I did not torque the bolts quite as far as the specification as I did not have the circular gauge. 90 degrees is not hard to spitball, but who knows. I likely made the mistake there.

I finished putting it back together enough to run the motor. Started it up....initially I still had the large drops of water coming from the tailpipe..which caused all sorts of expletives even though I knew it was a long shot to fix it anyway. But I noticed that repeated tests with the block tester failed to yield any change in the color of the testing liquid, in contrast to it turning yellow before I made the tightening change to the head bolts. SO i figured that was a good sign.

I let it run for 5 -10 more mins and now the tailpipe is completely dry. I was COMPLETELY stoked, as now I can move on to the numerous other things to address before I can drive the car. :-D

To all that chimed in, thanks a bunch for your help!