1999 320d help please.

[FREEDAWEED]

Hi all.
This is my first post and i'm sorry to say i need help.
I've done the usual and searched the internet and cant find my symptoms anywhere. (many similar but not the same).
I bought 6 months ago a fantastic condition German model 320d that had been imported to Spain in 2006.
The car has zero rust and has been very well maintained.
The car has been a dream to own till last week.
I took it to a jet wash, pulled in and switched off the ignition.
I realised that i had no change in the car and started it back up to go and get some. (car never got wet).
The car started perfectly and off i went.
20 seconds later the car juddered and lost power and continued juddering, trying to cut out. (no engine light).
I went to my local garage and they cant even look at it till 3 weeks time.
I would love to eliminate as many problems it might be and possibly solve it.
I've recently changed all boost pipes and cleaned the maf/egr and this has made no difference.
The car starts perfectly every time and idle is perfect.
When i touch the throttle it'll rev to about 1500 rpm then cough splutter and spit smoke (runs real rough) and idle is bad (lumpy and coughing).
If i switch off the engine and start again exactly the same again, perfect idle till i touch the throttle and it fails the same again.
If anybody has any great words of wisdom or experience please let me know.
Once again the car hasnt been to the garage yet so i have no fault codes.
Thank you very much in advance for reading this post and look forward to any helpful advice.

[328 Power 04]

Is this the common rail version or the injection pump version?

[FREEDAWEED]

Does this help ?

Type	AL71
Model	320d
Market	Europe
Development Code	E46 (4)
Chassis	Sedan
Steering	left
Doors	4
Engine	M47
Displacement	2.00 l
Power	100 kW
Drivetrain	Rear-Wheel Drive
Transmission	manuell
Color	Schwarz 2 - 668
Upholstery	Stoff Laser/anthrazit - G7AT
Production Plant	Dingolfing
Production Date	1999-09-30

Options

226	Sports Suspension Settings	Sportliche Fahrwerksabstimmung
255	Sports Leather Steering Wheel	Sport-lederlenkrad
320	Model Designation, Deletion	Modellschriftzug Entfall
337	M Sport Package	M Sportpaket
423	Floor Mats, Velour	Fussmatten In Velours
428	Warning Triangle	Warndreieck
431	Interior Rr Vw Mirror W Aut Anti-d	Innenspiegel,automatisch Abblendend
441	Smokers Package	Raucherpaket
465	Through-load System	Durchladesystem
473	Armrest, Front	Armauflage Vorn
481	Sport Seats F Driver/front Passenger	Sportsitze Fuer Fahrer/beifahrer
508	Park Distance Control (pdc)	Park Distance Control (pdc)
520	Foglights	Nebelscheinwerfer
534	Automatic Air Conditioning	Klimaautomatik
550	On-board Computer	Bordcomputer
662	Radio Bmw Business Cd	Radio Bmw Business Cd
715	M Aerodynamics Package	M Aerodynamikpaket
760	Individual High-gloss Satin Chrome	Individual Hochglanz Shadow Line
772	Interior Trim Alu Black Cube	Interieurleiste Alu Black Cube
775	Individual Roof-lining Anthracite	Individual Dachhimmel Anthrazit
785	White Direction Indicator Lights	Weisse Blinkleuchten
788	M Lt/aly Wheels	M Leichtmetallraeder
801	Germany Version	Deutschland-ausfuehrung
863	Europe/dealer Directory	Service Kontakt-flyer Europa
879	German / On-board Documentation	Deutsch / Bordliteratur
915	No Outer Skin Protection	Aussenhautschutz Entfall
972	Comfort Package	Comfort Paket

[FREEDAWEED]

Sorry no idea.
Vin ends in CA74714

[Breeze1]

If you let it idle for 30 seconds or more on a warm engine, what happens? Is the idle still "perfect"?

[FREEDAWEED]

If i don't touch the throttle it will idle perfectly for as long as i want.
As soon as i touch the throttle and give it a bit of rev it'll cut out and drop the revs,judder,cough,splutter,smoke etc, i let go and it idles real rough. i switch off the engine and the same happens again, perfect idle etc.
1 time in ten it'll let me rev up to 3500 - 4000 rpm fine before throwing a temper tantrum, engine is smooth as silk when it's right.

[328 Power 04]

You have the mechanical injection pump m47 engine.
I would start by checking fuel pressure up to the injection pump. It could be a simple case of failing in tank pump, or clogged fuel filter.

Using proper computer diagnostics to log parameters as the behavior is happening will give you a lot of info.

[Breeze1]

As mentioned by 328Power04 it could be your fuel pump failing. Two other possibilities associated with the symptoms are:
- Faulty MAF
- Vacuum leak, possibly caused/revealed by an increase in pressure after replacing the boost pipes.

I you unplugg the MAF and the symptoms go away, you'll likely have narrowed things down to those 2 possibilities. If that doesn't change anything, I'd be looking at that fuel pump.

[328 Power 04]

Those old diesel management systems don't work like the gas cars.

[FREEDAWEED]

As mentioned by 328Power04 it could be your fuel pump failing. Two other possibilities associated with the symptoms are:
- Faulty MAF
- Vacuum leak, possibly caused/revealed by an increase in pressure after replacing the boost pipes.

I you unplugg the MAF and the symptoms go away, you'll likely have narrowed things down to those 2 possibilities. If that doesn't change anything, I'd be looking at that fuel pump.

Cheers for that, i disconnected the maf and no change.
I'm trying to get it in to my mates garage Monday just so he can hook it up to his all singing diagnostics machine so i can at least get the error codes.
I replaced all the boost pipes after it started playing up so looks like a pump issue.
I'll post the codes Monday if i get them.

- - - Updated - - -

You have the mechanical injection pump m47 engine.
I would start by checking fuel pressure up to the injection pump. It could be a simple case of failing in tank pump, or clogged fuel filter.

Using proper computer diagnostics to log parameters as the behavior is happening will give you a lot of info.

Thank's I'm hoping to get the error codes Monday but i'll be happy if it's something so simple as a pump or filter.

[FREEDAWEED]

Hi all.
Sorry i've not been back on for a while but the garage is still to busy to get it diagnosed.
OK.
I've continued to investigate for myself.
When removing the inlet manifold i found that 2 of the bottom spacers were not fitted and had been crushed to one side and the seals weren't good.
I went to a local breakers and got a very clean replacement for it.
Before i fitted it i noticed a lot of fuel around the injectors so i tried to remove the return and it snapped in my hand.
I then went and bought just over a meter of pipe and replaced them (ALL).
After all this i tried to start it and it sounded different but with the same fault (ish).
I then checked the fuel pipes had not leaked and they were perfect.
BUT...... i still had a lot of fuel around the injector nearest the rad, (Front of car).
I put a socket on the nut and it was so loose i could have removed it by hand.
I tightened up the 2 nuts but it's still leaking.
Do i undo the nuts then tighten up the torx then tighten up the nuts?
I had ordered a fuel filter but not arrived yet. I did notice a shiny fuel pump fitted and it had a company sticker saying a web address for a racing company in Spain.
I have amazing fuel pressure as i checked when replacing the fuel pipes, fuel shot about 4 meters, lol.
Any help would be great guys.

[MarcoZandrini]

The only way to really check fuel pressure is by use of a gauge. I’m not at all familiar with your engine so I don’t know if there’s a simple way to check the pressure. I’d start there after scanning the engine computer (DDM as it’s a diesel). Post the codes and their meaning.

[FREEDAWEED]

Just spent another hour with it and i've managed to stop the injector leaking.
The engine now has NO misfire what so ever. SOUNDS GREAT.
That's the good news.
The bad news is now it will only rev up to 1500rpm,
No smoke no rattle Not trying to stall anymore no misfire no warning light. revs smooth and throttle is now responsive.
Hopefully getting closer.

[Breeze1]

At this point I'm suspecting either lambda sensor (the one that goes on the cat) or a clogged cat. You can try to rule out the sensor by temporary unplugging it (you don't need to take it off of the cat, you can just remove the connector that attaches to the cable which is coming from atop the engine). If it revs freely after removing it you'll have your answer (and probably a CEL code as well but that's fine if it's just for the sake of identifying it and replacing it).

https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...diagId=18_0322

[328 Power 04]

Ok. Please stop with the speculation.

This is not a gas car, and it doesn't work like a gas car at all in terms of management.



Original poster needs to scan the DDE and run some live logs as to why the system is in reduced rpm limp mode.

[Breeze1]

Ok. Please stop with the speculation.

This is not a gas car, and it doesn't work like a gas car at all in terms of management.



Original poster needs to scan the DDE and run some live logs as to why the system is in reduced rpm limp mode.

Care to elaborate on that? The car does have a lambda sensor which measures emissions, and I don't see why a faulty one wouldn't impair fuel management, as it does on a gas car. Other possibilty which I mentioned and is plausible is a clogged cat. OP specifically said he couldn't take the car to a dealer before some time and is here to get help in the meantime. He doesn't seem to be willing to get a scanner as well, so what is your point exactly?

[FREEDAWEED]

Thanks guy's i'll try anything to try and identify the fault.
Today i met a guy at the local breakers that has diagnostics and has agreed to go to the car Saturday morning and see what it says.

[328 Power 04]

Sigh.


I could easily list 30 things that can go wrong with a car, and chances are that one of them will apply and fix the car. Result? Wasted time and money.


The proper way to fix a car is as follows:

1. Identify a problem
2. Take down detailed history, and other facts related to the problem
3. Inspect and look for signs and symptoms related to the problem
4. Come up with possible diagnoses using best possible knowledge of the subject
5. Run targeted diagnostic tests and record findings
6. Use results of diagnostic tests to validate your diagnostic
7. Repair issue

Anything else is just pure speculation.




1. Diesels do not operate on fixed air to fuel ratio. Diesels run from 17:1 afr all the way to 500:1 afr. They often don't have an oxygen sensor. If even equipped with a lambda sensor it's to monitor the cat life. Even then, it will not reduce rpm when faulty.
2. The car in subject is not even equipped with a lambda sensor.
3. Clogged cat is an absolute guess that doesn't fit the situation well.

[MauiM3Mania]

Thanks guy's i'll try anything to try and identify the fault.

OP, you would do best by listening to and following the advice given by the BMW Tech Expert who is using a diagnostic and direct experienced approach to your situation versus the 'throwing pasta at the wall' technique.

[Breeze1]

Sigh.


I could easily list 30 things that can go wrong with a car, and chances are that one of them will apply and fix the car. Result? Wasted time and money.


The proper way to fix a car is as follows:

1. Identify a problem
2. Take down detailed history, and other facts related to the problem
3. Inspect and look for signs and symptoms related to the problem
4. Come up with possible diagnoses using best possible knowledge of the subject
5. Run targeted diagnostic tests and record findings
6. Use results of diagnostic tests to validate your diagnostic
7. Repair issue

Anything else is just pure speculation.




1. Diesels do not operate on fixed air to fuel ratio. Diesels run from 17:1 afr all the way to 500:1 afr. They often don't have an oxygen sensor. If even equipped with a lambda sensor it's to monitor the cat life. Even then, it will not reduce rpm when faulty.
2. The car in subject is not even equipped with a lambda sensor.
3. Clogged cat is an absolute guess that doesn't fit the situation well.

The clogged cat has been suggested after a few other things have been ruled out (apparently the case of the FP) and a few fixes were applied by the OP. A clogged catalyst is a guess, but IMO a reasonable one (even more so now that we know AFR's are not an issue) when other things have been checked and the engine seems to be choking, based on the symptoms. About the lambda sensor, I have been misled by the fact that it's shown on the link below (but actually greyed out).

https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...diagId=18_0322

@MauiM3Mania I can see that you're still using the same technique as ever: criticizing/belittling other people's contributions/efforts while not making any. Very useful indeed!

[MauiM3Mania]

A clogged catalyst is a guess...

@MauiM3Mania I can see that you're still using the same technique as ever: criticizing/belittling other people's contributions/efforts while not making any. Very useful indeed!

Who's being critical? I simply suggested that the OP listen to a learned forum leader (328 Power 04) and not to guesses.

You might want to show some respect, pal.

[Breeze1]

Who's being critical? I simply suggested that the OP listen to a learned forum leader (328 Power 04) and not to guesses.

You might want to show some respect, pal.

Respect is earned and works both ways, pal...

About guesses and all, I hate to break it to you, but even when a car is at a garage, hooked up to a diagnostics tool by a Tech who's reading actual error codes, there still is an element of uncertainty because sometimes an error code doesn't directly point at the real culprit but is just a byproduct of an another issue. Happened time and again to all of us, even the Techs. What I did here was trying to help the OP to the best of my abilities provided that he could not take the car to a pro before several weeks and he didn't (until yesterday) say in any way that he was willing to use a scanner. In other words, I adapted myself to the situation and yeah, that means guessing (wow, breaking news).

And for that I'm being judged by someone who belittles my contribution by basically saying that I'm just playing around, while not trying to help in any way whatsoever, and being lectured about respect on top of it?

On a side note, this is a forum, i.e. a place where both professionnals and DIYers meet because they share a common passion for a marque and are supposed to be here to help each other to the best of their knowledge/willingness to do so. If you want it to be a "Tech approach only" situation, don't call it a forum. Make a FAQ section which only Techs will be allowed to write in and call it a day.

[MauiM3Mania]

The General BMW Mechanical Help area of Bimmerforums is where techs and highly skilled individuals provide professional level, solid information to members who come here for help. It's clear that the level of advise in this sub-forum is at a higher level than most other online sites.

Guesses and unfounded suggestions are a disservice to the those asking for the assistance, distracting to the skilled techs who are in the process of diagnosing/providing help and it simply dilutes the value of the forum. Lastly, the 'maybe it's this' variety of posts are frowned upon by many as indicated by private and public comments.

If my statements are not clear, send me a PM and not in this public area as it will be removed. This topic already has enough distraction.

[FREEDAWEED]

Been let down again, guy not turned up to diagnose the car. Any recommendations for a code reader to buy ?

[MarcoZandrini]

Abel, would the OBDFusion app help this gentleman out?