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Thread: stomp test no longer works

  1. #1
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    Post stomp test no longer works

    Back, hat in hand once again, hoping for some ideas. I've had my 92 touring for 8 years now, the first several of which the stomp test worked fine. It wasn't much help, since all it ever told me was no codes stored. I did a 5 speed swap, and have not managed to get it to work since then, though I didn't try it until my recent intermittent CEL showed up. I did a bunch of searching, which led me to believe it wasn't working due to my TPS. The 3 of them I had lying around metered outside of acceptable parameters, so I made several boneyard trips and picked up a bunch of them, all of which are within the recommended range. The one I'm using appears to be brand new. All are Bosch. I've tried the stomp test with all of them, to no avail.

    Registration is up for renewal soon, so I need to find out what is causing this CEL before getting her smog tested. I've replaced the intake elbow, all the icv hoses and fittings, and the o2 sensor since the CEL came on, though for unrelated reasons. Idle is smooth and the car runs okay, though maybe a bit down on power, and that doesn't change with or without the cel on.

    I guess the easiest way to figure out what is causing the CEL would be to get the stomp test to work again. Does anyone have any suggestions as to what else might have caused it to stop working? I'm trying to avoid blindly throwing parts at the problem, given how many parts that might involve.

    Thanks!

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    The next thing would be to see if the TPS is actually talking to the car... the TPS itself might be working, but how about the wiring in between it and the DME and the cluster?
    1995 525i 5-speed - Thread

  3. #3
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    Well, the wiring to the tps is in good shape, no corrosion or damage to be seen. I guess I should have mentioned that, while I could completely dismantle and then reassemble the car, that doesn't make me a mechanic. It certainly won't let me fake being an electrician! I'll have to pull up my Bentley and see if it gives me instructions on how to test the connections. Thanks, I'll see what it has to say.

    I guess I was hoping for an easy answer to a complex problem. I'll have to put a lot more effort into figuring this one out. There is some communication getting from the TPS to the DME at least, since the car runs noticably different with the various TPS. Utterly clueless how to figure out whether anything gets sent to the cluster, though. This may be one of those things that turns out to be over my head, unless I spend the time learning more about electrical troubleshooting than I have time for right now.

    But thanks, that would be the next logical step.
    Last edited by xcastaway; 06-13-2019 at 06:07 PM.

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    Can we rule out user error? 5, quick stomps, right after you turn that key to position 2. Try and break the gas pedal.
    Is your throttle going full wide open, can you hear the TPS click off idle? Unsure of the configuration of the m50, any possible way that you’ve connected the wrong connector to the tps? The TPS is the only way the gas pedal talks to the computer, so the problem can’t be that far removed.
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  5. #5
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    Boy, I sure hope we can rule out the user error, and m50's have only the one connection option. It did work, once upon a time. I just went out and tried it again, this time after having my battery disconnected after putting it on a charger.( trying to track down intermittent parasitic draw) Lo and behold, it worked, sorta. I got one long flash then one short flash, over and over again. If I turn the ignition switch off, it won't work again. Given that the battery has been disconnected, I assume the one long and one short, etc., is informing me the battery has been disconnected, so of course there are no codes stored. I tried several times after shutting off the ignition with no result. I disconnected it again, and once again I got the repeating long and short flashes for the first time after connecting it, and nothing after shutting off the switch again. So there does seem to be communication from the TPS to the DME to the instrument cluster, sometimes. And I do seem to be initiating it correctly. The trick is going to be convincing it to work once I've driven it and it has codes again.

  6. #6
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    Sometimes funky battery voltage does, funky things. Put a multimeter on the battery, make sure everything is a ok. That way if the problem comes back, and the stomp test doesn't work, you'll have a likely culprit.

  7. #7
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    This parasitic draw has been driving me crazy. The battery will hold it's full charge fine for a month or so, then die overnight. After the second or third time, I bought a new battery, though the old one tested fine. The new one died after a month, too. It will charge right up, and be fine and hold it's charge for the same month or so, until it's not. I kept the old battery, and have swapped them several times, and have had the same issue with both of them. I don't think it is related to the CEL or my stomp test issue though. I have been wrong before, so I guess it's possible, since I don't know what the CEL is all about yet. But the issues started at different times, so for now I'm treating them as separate problems. Unfortunately, I'm not solving either of them, at the moment.

    Thanks, I will keep trying.

  8. #8
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    parasitic draws running batteries slightly flat is infuriating, I had weird issues while working through my faults. Trans prog error in an auto is the obvious one but other symptoms were fails to start from the key - but only in hot weather (would always start from the diag pin short trick, just not the key switch, and didn't turn over like it was flat either - cranked over normally just not with the key). Another one was it started fine (didn't even seem flat), but blower fan for the a/c didn't work.

    Weird symptoms like this only happened 3 weeks to a month after the last charge. On a freshly charged battery if your stomp test isn't working fully I expect it to be a different issue. For diag try find someone with either the after market diag port tester, like the peake research r5/fcx scan tool, or someone with proper BMW software, laptop and diag port adapter (eg ADS mux module and DIS software) . It's the best way to not throw parts at it and waste your time even if you don't know anyone so you have to pay for it. I've done that before with a commodore when I needed a check light reset by a tech2 device - just paid someone from gumtree/CL. At the time about 10 years ago only a $2500 tech2 could reset SRS air bag lights. Maybe there's someone nearby advertising cheap on CL for BMW diag that has the old stuff too?

    For the battery drain obviously the best way to find one is with a multimeter that has high current measuring ability because there's a bit of a surge when first connecting it (you need to get an amp measurement from the battery to rule out alternator etc). mine was drawing 0.17A and that was enough to kill the battery every 3 weeks
    But a quick way to test with a regular multimeter is across the fuses. There shouldn't be any voltage difference across a fuse and the resistance is very low. But I found my drain that way by finding 0.15v across the cig lighter circuit and the trailer/pressure motor circuit. When I pulled those fuses my current drain dropped from 0.17A to 37mA so luckily I didn't need them or need to repair anything like wiring or alternator diodes.
    E: Someone in that thread also mentioned the crash control module (CCM) being a problem for them, so if pulling fuses doesn't help try pulling modules while checking current with a good multimeter.
    Last edited by fo3; 06-15-2019 at 10:04 AM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by fo3 View Post
    E: Someone in that thread also mentioned the crash control module (CCM) being a problem for them, so if pulling fuses doesn't help try pulling modules while checking current with a good multimeter.
    That might have been me. I bought my car "with an electrical problem", turned out the CCM was causing the parasitic draw; bought a used one from fleabay that worked perfectly for a year, and it ended up also draining the battery one day. Installed another used one that's been doing ok for ~2 yrs. now; so yeah, checking current one module at a time might be the way to go...

  10. #10
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    Thanks, guys. Especially for the reminder that there is an option if I can't convince the stomp test to work.

    I've been working too much with supposition and too little with data to figure out the parasitic draw. So now my back seat is out until I get this solved. The times I've checked for the draw, the battery has been at full charge, and, until this morning, there has been less than .5mA draw. I may have a chance to find it, now, since today it is in excess of 3, which is in keeping with my guesses. The battery seems to keep a full charge for weeks, then die overnight. Which seems to mean that there is an occasional,large drain on it. It only happens when I absolutely need to go somewhere, so I haven't had the chance to check while whatever is draining it is active. I can bump start it, and it will charge right back up again and be fine, sometimes for weeks, then die again overnight. So it seems there is an occasional large drain somewhere.

    One part of my issues are self inflicted, which I'm going to try to figure out today. I have a Volvo fan, direct wired to the battery jump post, so the fan runs, sometimes for quite a while, after I shut off the car. My temporary installation that is still that way after a year. I'm going to try to puzzle out whether I have any relays that match up to what Demetk used here: That will at least eliminate one drain on the battery. But first, out to try to track down the current current drain, now that one has shown up.

    Thanks again for your help!


  11. #11
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    Well, success on one front, anyway, I finally found my battery killer. It was something I can just yank the fuse and forget, too. It goes to the trailer and wiper pressure control, which I wasn't aware that I had. I've done the same test before, but this was the first time when I was seeing an actual draw happening and could find it.

    Alas, stomp test still only sort of works the first time I turn the ignition, but not after I start the car. I'll mess with the fan relay instead.

  12. #12
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    I think I found a relay that matches up to demetk's diagram, but it would be hard to overstate how little I know about relays. The one that seems to match is the white fuel pump relay. Could anyone who does understand them please let me know if I did guess right? And one problem leads to another question. I'm planning on installing the relay in the auxiliary relay box. What I discovered in there was a gray relay in the headlight washer (sra), going to the washers I don't have, and that were causing my battery drain. Can/should I yank that relay out? This is the circuit I'm talking about.

    Doesn't seem to like .pdfs
    Last edited by xcastaway; 06-15-2019 at 06:42 PM.

  13. #13
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    I've had intermittent stomp test malfunctions too. The solution has been to keep trying. It helps to imagine the pedal as the face of whomever's in charge of assembly design at VW.

    I also have the Volvo fan, and went through three relays before finding one that doesn't stick longer than a full second after shutdown. My Toyota has Volvo relays for headlights, and they've stuck on occasionally (and may have come on randomly once). It might be a Volvo thing.

    The above diagram is too complicated for the task, IMO. If you're going through that trouble, delete the Volvo relay altogether and have the Volvo fan activated by BMW (standard Bosch) relays; basically, replicate the stock aux fan circuit. I may well be doing this shortly. A much simpler solution is to put a 30A-rated switch on either the power or ground wire of the Volvo relay.

    Below is how I wired my Volvo fan. Thick wires are unmodified stock. I rewired the pusher (stock auxiliary) fan to be ground-switched, and had its relays also switch on the Volvo relay. The fans work together on both low and high speed, each speed triggered by stock conditions.
    fans wiring.JPG
    Last edited by moroza; 06-15-2019 at 11:49 PM.

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    Looking at the fan/relay part of things from the beginning, the only part of my fan install that was temporary was where I powered it from. I was more concerned with getting it all installed and working, so took power from the one place I was sure could handle a 30 amp draw, the jump post. I always meant to go back and find somewhere to get power that was switched and would handle the current. I wasn't sure how to tell which ones might be up to the task and accessible, then or now. The way Demetk had his relay offered me a way to get it running off the ignition without having to find a strong enough circuit blindly. I'd still have to find a switched circuit to tap in to, but the rest is pretty much inches from where it needs to be. If the relay I have will work. If I could find somewhere to draw switched power without an extra relay, and without letting the smoke out of any wiring I would prefer that. I have enough electrical gremlins without seeking out more.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by xcastaway View Post
    One part of my issues are self inflicted, which I'm going to try to figure out today. I have a Volvo fan, direct wired to the battery jump post, so the fan runs, sometimes for quite a while, after I shut off the car. My temporary installation that is still that way after a year. I'm going to try to puzzle out whether I have any relays that match up to what Demetk used here: That will at least eliminate one drain on the battery. But first, out to try to track down the current current drain, now that one has shown up.
    If you're going that route you don't need a fancy relay with 87A (like a dme/fuel pump relay). You're not using a 2nd 87 terminal, so just any standard 4 pin automotive relay would work if you're making your own base plug and wiring pin out.

    BTW I have an aftermarket thermofan connected straight to the battery via a relay with an aftermarket thermostat on the rad hose. It runs on for 5min after switching the engine off, sometimes cycles on twice as well, I checked the amp draw and it was like 9 amps.
    I just left it because it helps cool down everything, inc my battery as that's in the engine bay and why it was so easy to get direct power from the battery terminal itself rather than dig into the vehicle wiring for a 12V ign only source.
    I considered rewiring it but I haven't had a low battery issue for the past few months. Like you, my main culprit was the trailer/pressure wiper circuit causing a parasitic drain for some weird reason (I don't have pressure wipers or trailer wiring fitted either.) E: I also had an extra unwanted relay under the aux fan relay box, is that where you found the headlight washer relay? It was warm to the touch and I don't have headlight washers. I think in our case it's P.O.s populating every circuit with (wrong types) relays and fuses for circuits that shouldn't be live.
    Last edited by fo3; 06-16-2019 at 02:02 AM.

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    The stock (BMW) fan circuits have relay power constant-hot; it's the relay triggers that are ignition-hot. The only reason to make the relay power also ignition-hot is if you don't trust the relay not to close on randomly. In which case, duplicate the factory circuit, which I've never heard of malfunctioning like the Volvo one seems prone to do.

    Apparently this is a not-unheard-of Volvo problem. Furthermore, Volvo's biggest recall ever concerns the fan electrics for slightly later cars. I just found this, and convinced to rewire the system using BMW relays.

    The only ignition-hot 30A circuit is F16 (seat electrics), which happens to be one of four that go through relays, while the other ignition-hot fuses come straight through the ignition switch.
    Last edited by moroza; 06-16-2019 at 02:55 AM.

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    I want to rewire my fan because it looks crap with the t/stat and relay hanging off the battery and tray. I've tidied up the wiring by moving the fan power, relay coil supply, sub amp off the battery terminal to the bus bar under the main fuse cover.
    But I want to move the relay to behind the headlight cover and the t/stat to under the battery tray. When I do that I might change the relay coil power from a direct battery connection to a ign only power source. I've done some digging around behind the headlights and found a loose grey plug with a brown and a green wire on it. The green wire is only hot with ign on so it looks ideal for my purposes but I'm not sure what else uses that circuit. Does anyone know where these wires come from and what they were for?
    Might be headlight washer or wiper but I'm pretty sure I pulled any fuses and relays for equipment I don't have so I shouldn't be getting 12V on that plug now if it was them.
    Last edited by fo3; 06-16-2019 at 05:36 AM.

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    Thanks, Gentlemen.

    I was trying to match up what was in the diagram, as far as the relay was concerned. I have oodles of relays, from a thoroughly molested parts car plus others I've picked up along the way. Given how little I know about relays, that seemed the best approach. I haven't gone and checked to see if my relays in the main DME box are correct, as a recent psa suggested, due to not knowing which ones are supposed to be in there. I need to do so, since the PO did some really odd things to everything he touched. I pulled fuses from places that had no wires underneath, relays from places that governed parts my car doesn't have (seems to work fine without it), and broken bits from anything and everything he (they) touched. So checking to make sure is justified. I just haven't found anything that tells me which ones are supposed to be installed there. Haven't looked really hard yet, though.

    I think my Volvo relay is working properly, it's just the way I have it wired that keeps it running long after I've shut off the car, which makes me nervous. Particularly after these battery issues I'm hoping I've put behind me. I'd be more comfortable having it shut off when I turn off the car, given how much power it draws. If my wag is correct, the way things are set up according to that diagram, the main power draw comes from the direct battery connection going to pin 30. The switched power going to pin 86 only activates the relay, according to my wag. Please correct me if I'm wrong, given how little I know about such things.

    Seat electrics ignition hot? Hope not, since mine sure aren't!

    Taking the day off from messing with the car. Happy Father's Day, to all to whom that applies!
    Last edited by xcastaway; 06-16-2019 at 03:07 PM.

  19. #19
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    Whoops, looks like F16 is for memory, lumbar, and heat; seat motors are indeed constant-hot.

    Relays make more sense if you ignore Bosch's arbitrary 30/85/87xyzwhatever numbers and consider it instead as a pair of circuits: small and big, or as I call them, "trigger" and "main". Putting 12V across the trigger physically throws a switch that turns on the main circuit. That is, giving the trigger power (86) +12V and grounding the trigger ground (85) closes the switch between main power (30) and main ground (87). A typical Bosch cube relay draws 150mA for the trigger and can support 30000mA (30A) for the main. If not for relays, the ignition switch (and many other components, such as the fan thermo switch) would have to be a lot beefier to handle much higher loads.

    If you have the Volvo relay's two triggers wired directly to the thermo switch, they will indeed keep running the fan with the ignition off. I was pointing out that on top of that, the Volvo relays are known to stick. Putting a (Bosch/BMW) relay on the main power wire will solve that problem, yes, but I'd suggest keeping the stock pusher fan working off the thermo switch as well, which in your schematic it no longer does.
    Last edited by moroza; 06-16-2019 at 06:11 PM.

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    That's right, seat heat was switched, now that I think about it. It seems my wag was about right, but I don't want to risk cooking anything by guessing and getting it wrong. Thanks for the explanation. Mine is currently hooked up just like the diagram, minus the second relay. And you're right, the pusher fan is disconnected. It never once came on by itself before I installed the Volvo fan, I had to jumper it to make sure it actually worked. The a/c in my car has never worked, so it wasn't needed for that, either. If fixing the a/c ever reaches the top of the list of things the car needs to have fixed, I'll definitely have to revisit your diagram and get it working. I'm just trying to get past the electrical parts so that I can figure out the CEL , then get back to the growing list of mechanical things that need looked after. It never ends.

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    If you're looking for an ign only on source for your fan relay coil conveniently placed near the radiator fan I've traced my plugs mentioned before. There's two plugs with identical green/black and a brown wire - they are the same cable (0 ohms from green/blk to the other). From where they are I guessed they were for headlight washers if fitted. I traced them back to fuse #12 (heated washers and side mirror motors)
    I disconnected the LKM and CCM to make sure they weren't wired through them as well and all good and seems safe to connect a fan relay to IMO.

    One plug would be for the headlight sprayer, and the other for fog light sprayer if fitted. I laid them out onto my battery for a picture - they are usually tucked up under the headlights.
    pair green and brown grey plugs.JPG

    Just connect the fan relay coil + (85) to one of the green black wires and fan relay coil - (86) to the brown wire and the fan can only run with ign on.
    Last edited by fo3; 06-17-2019 at 12:56 AM.

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    At least your stomp test worked sometime. I've never been able to get mine to blink even once. Guess I'll get out the multimeter and go after the TPS, but I don't think I'll find joy there.
    Charlie

    Your mission, should you decide to accept it, is to add value to these threads, either by pictures or by descriptions, so the next person with the same or similar problem stands on your shoulders.

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    Thanks, fo3, I remember seeing those when installing my smileys a few months back. I never got farther than wondering what the heck they went to. I'll have to check to make sure they are still live after pulling that relay and my #22 fuse. I think I'm going to go back and reconsider how the whole fan wiring is set up and see if I can come up with a more elegant solution. I ran it the way I have it just to get it working while I was changing water pump, thermostat and belts, and ofhg and my temporary fix remains in place.

    Well. yes, once upon a time the stomp test worked, before it had any issues to report. But now that I need it? Some friend it's been. I haven't driven it since I hooked the battery back up, I'll try, try again once I have and it throws the CEL again. But every thread I read through pointed at the TPS as the likely culprit in it not functioning. So I picked up several of them, tested them, then installed them, and stomped til my legs ached. This post was my cry for help when it still wouldn't cooperate. Maybe now, with this other probably unrelated electrical issue hopefully solved, I'll get lucky and get it to work at least once and I can cure this CEL. Good luck with yours!

  24. #24
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    I was in the same boat as you, pulling fuse #22 and the extraneous relay in the aux fan box to stop my parasitic battery drain, but those plugs and cables I found are still live because they are fed from fuse #12 - which I definitely didn't pull because it's for wing mirror motors too.
    Don't forget to get your fan power from somewhere else though - running off the jump starter post can't look too neat. I suppose the rear seat battery models still have the main fuse in the engine bay near the RHS strut tower? I got my fan power supply from that bus bar because I didn't want it hanging off the battery terminal anyway.
    I wish I had a check engine light, people like me with an early euro model don't even have a working one. It seemed to have been only mandated for USA models back then.
    Last edited by fo3; 06-17-2019 at 11:06 AM.

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    Cool, good to know. That is probably where I'll get switched power from. I'll puzzle through Moroza's diagram, then go out and give everything a good staring at later this evening when I have the chance, then decide how to go about finalizing the wiring. Since I do hope to eventually get the a/c up and running, it would be better to have the pusher fan working, since I believe the compressor won't switch on without it. The fuse bus bar is near the drivers side strut tower on mine, I'll look into how I can pull my main power for the fan from there.

    It does seem odd that they would put something that makes sense, like a check engine light, in cars for one market, but leave it out of others in a different market. I wasn't aware it was a US mandated thing. On the other hand, at least you got headlights that actually let you see at night. The standard headlights I had were horrid, I upgraded to the ellipsoids, which were merely awful. With the smileys, I can actually drive at night without wondering if my headlights are even on. On the plus side for you, at least you don't have to try and figure out why your stomp test doesn't work!

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