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Thread: Major overheating issue! Help!

  1. #1
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    Major overheating issue! Help!

    Hi guys, new here. I have a 2002 e46 330i and I completed an oil filter and oil change on Saturday as well as the spark plugs. Took it for a drive later that day and it was running fine. Parked it and noticed some liquid underneath but assumed it was just from air con.
    Took it for another drive Sunday morning, drove for about 15minutes before temperature gauge light came on. I pulled over immediately, let the car cool for half hour and checked both oil and radiator. First thing I noticed was that the radiator cap was not completely tight, however was not loose either. Oil looked much darker than expected considering I changed it just the day before and radiator had dropped all it's fluid.
    I refilled with both coolant and some room temp water at a slow speed after about 30 minutes of cooling time. Drove another 2km before the temp went straight back up. Pulled over and checked the radiator, which had already dropped all the fluid again.
    Mind you the car did not and does not leak when it is not moving. It only drops it's water once it has been driving for about 15 minutes. I got my car towed back home. A day later I have checked oil again, and given it a slight top up as it had dropped a tiny amount. The oil was still very dark, almost black.
    I checked radiator fluid felt oily but did not have obvious signs that oil was in it (milky, bubbles etc) I noticed small bubbles in the fluid but I'm unsure if that's normal for some radiator fluids. I topped up all fluids, and turned the car on for about 10 minutes.
    After that time I noticed some smoke coming from top covers of engine, and oil cap. I took the covers off and noticed two of the coil packs had a noticeable amount of dark liquid (I presume oil).
    I removed the coil packs to check the spark plugs thinking I may have made a mistake somewhere during the service. There was oil on the thread of one of the spark plugs, but all others seemed fine.
    Has anyone experienced anything like this? Am hoping to be able to fix myself without needing a mechanic as my trusted euro mechanic is about 100ish kms away. Trying to figure out what is causing the issues.
    As a worse case scenario, is it possible that I may have cracked the head? By pouring water into a relatively hot engine? With only allowing 30 minutes cool time. (Car off, caps undone, 18 degrees weather).
    I have also read something about a CCV? And Valve cover gaskets? But still don't know why or what has caused the radiator to drain so fast. I have tried to find source of leak. But cannot find anything so far. Possible waterpump?
    Please help!

  2. #2
    dworthy's Avatar
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    Welcome to the Forum!

    You are having a typical E-46 cooling explosion. Since there is plenty of plastics inside the cooling system, they tend to go bad after 12-15 years. I suspect that nothing has been doing with the cooling system on that car, so you are well past due for an overhaul.

    Also you have air in the system, that is why it keeps overheating.

    An overhaul tends to be:
    Radiator
    Surge/coolant tank
    Thermostat
    Waterpump
    Upper and lower coolant hoses
    Lower temp sensor

    A vacuum fill will ensure you get 99% of the air out the first time, so worth while to get the tool, or find a shop that has that tool.

    Next will be to address the leaking valve cover, for it sounds like that car hasn't had much preventative maintenance.
    Last edited by dworthy; 06-13-2019 at 02:44 AM.
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  3. #3
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    Is this car new to you?
    An overheating car with a loose radiator cap raises some red flags, as does an engine that immediately soils fresh oil.

    If you can leave two black stripes from the exit of one corner to the braking zone of the next, you have enough horsepower. - Mark Donohue

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by ross1 View Post
    Is this car new to you?
    An overheating car with a loose radiator cap raises some red flags, as does an engine that immediately soils fresh oil.
    No I’ve had this car for a few years. The radiator cap had only been loose from the day before when I completed the service. My fault for not checking it.

    What do you suggest could be the issue with the oil ?

  5. #5
    dworthy's Avatar
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    Dirty oil tends to come from the extend oil changes that BMW recommends. I for one, do not like going over 15k km on any oil, so I don't tend to follow the service indicator.

    I suspect you have at or over 200k km on that car.
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  6. #6
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    Yes it’s at about 240km. I didn’t do an oil flush through like I normally would, could that also cause the dirty oil so soon?

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    Oil typically get dirty from combustion contaminates getting passed the piston rings. Each piston has 3 pistons rings located near the top of the piston:
    - 2 compression rings
    - 1 oil control ring
    I’d do a compression test on all the cylinders. The compression rings could be bad. I’m betting the oil control rings are bad. Does the engine burn oil?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcoZandrini View Post
    Oil typically get dirty from combustion contaminates getting passed the piston rings. Each piston has 3 pistons rings located near the top of the piston:
    - 2 compression rings
    - 1 oil control ring
    I’d do a compression test on all the cylinders. The compression rings could be bad. I’m betting the oil control rings are bad. Does the engine burn oil?

    I have re-drained the oil and it is definitely darker than it should be. I am going to buy a compression tester today to hopefully sort out if there’s an issue with the compression/rings.

    My engine does burn oil quite badly. Is it normal for my car to need topping up of oil after 3-4 months? I had spoken to a couple of people with the same car and they said they had the same issue so I didn’t think anything of it.

  9. #9
    dworthy's Avatar
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    Think more of mileage than time. So if that is about 6k km before you have to add a liter, then it isn't too bad.
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  10. #10
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    Many oils get dark after a few miles/hours. Dark oil does not mean dirty oil, although your oil MAY be loaded with contaminants.
    Last edited by MauiM3Mania; 06-16-2019 at 03:05 AM.
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  11. #11
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    Hey also, do I need to worry about fuel going into the pot during the compression test? Mechanic told me that some bmw will not allow fuel to be released if it does not recognize a spark thus showing a true dry reading. I’m just worried about fuel going in and showing false readings

  12. #12
    dworthy's Avatar
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    Best thing to do is pull the fuel pump fuse, and that way you don't have to worry about the fuel washing the compression away.
    Darin
    Current:
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    05 325it Electric Red(438)/Gray(N6TT) ZCW, ZSP 5sp Manual Back set cover, trunk mat, Euro Infra-Rot front windshield, and mud flaps! Mr. Wagon My new Winter car.
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    84 M535i gray market Burgandy Rot Met/Black Leather Lowered by Intrax on bilies, poly everywhere, B&B cat back system, K&N, and a hitch! Da Beast - Still running w/400k+!
    91 316i euro Tizianrot/Gray cloth - E-36 w/M-40 RIP, but great on gas! Best was 38 MPG
    82 528i euro Saphire Blue Met/Blue Leather RIP
    79 525 euro Green/Green RIP
    79 318 Silver/Black - The first one that got it all started
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by dworthy View Post
    Best thing to do is pull the fuel pump fuse, and that way you don't have to worry about the fuel washing the compression away.

    Someone mentioned a relay but would then need a reader to reset warnings or something? If that’s the case it seems pulling a fuse might be easier and better?

    Sorry for all the questions, but thanks for your help! I really appreciate it all.

  14. #14
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    No, just pull the fuel pump fuse and allow the engine to stall from lack of fuel. Then test the compression.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcoZandrini View Post
    Oil typically get dirty from combustion contaminates getting passed the piston rings. Each piston has 3 pistons rings located near the top of the piston:
    - 2 compression rings
    - 1 oil control ring
    I’d do a compression test on all the cylinders. The compression rings could be bad. I’m betting the oil control rings are bad. Does the engine burn oil?
    Why??
    Oil typically gets dirty from simply being in the engine too long.
    @ OP What is your oil change interval?
    I don't know how miles are driven in the 3 to 4 months before you need to top off(1 quart) but if that means 3 or 4 thousand miles then it's not excessive.
    If using conventional oil you should be changing about then (3k) not topping off.
    Opinions vary on synthetic oil life, mine goes 5k, which many will consider too frequent. My engines are all clean and healthy, some having traveled the distance to the moon and then some.
    Last edited by ross1; 06-18-2019 at 08:58 AM.

    If you can leave two black stripes from the exit of one corner to the braking zone of the next, you have enough horsepower. - Mark Donohue

  16. #16
    dworthy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ross1 View Post
    Why??
    Oil typically gets dirty from simply being in the engine too long.
    My thought exactly, as this is the typical way oil gets dirty. I for one never did like the extended oil services that BMW has been pushing for the last 20 or so years. Oil have a finite lifespan, while you can add stuff in, you still have the problem of thermal breakdown, ect to worry about.
    Darin
    Current:
    16 220i Active Tourer Platinsilver MET (C08)/Dakota Black (PDSW), P7ACA, P7LDA, P7LHA, P9BDA, 6sp Manual - Wife's new toy!
    05 325it Electric Red(438)/Gray(N6TT) ZCW, ZSP 5sp Manual Back set cover, trunk mat, Euro Infra-Rot front windshield, and mud flaps! Mr. Wagon My new Winter car.
    05 M3 Imolarot II(405)/Gray(N5TT) ZCW, ZPP 6sp Manual C.F. Lip, CSL diffuser, SSK, Euro Infra-Rot front windshield and a trunk liner! Mr. Go_Fast Stored for the Winter
    Past:
    95 318is Montreal Blue Met (297)/Beige(K1SN) RIP, killed by an Idiot.
    84 M535i gray market Burgandy Rot Met/Black Leather Lowered by Intrax on bilies, poly everywhere, B&B cat back system, K&N, and a hitch! Da Beast - Still running w/400k+!
    91 316i euro Tizianrot/Gray cloth - E-36 w/M-40 RIP, but great on gas! Best was 38 MPG
    82 528i euro Saphire Blue Met/Blue Leather RIP
    79 525 euro Green/Green RIP
    79 318 Silver/Black - The first one that got it all started
    M-Flight Member

  17. #17
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    All I can gather for certain is that the OP has a leaking valve cover gasket which is oiling the plug wells and there is an overheating issue.
    The overheating is the primary concern here and all this dirty oil talk is derailing a diagnosis for that.
    Last edited by ross1; 06-18-2019 at 09:06 AM.

    If you can leave two black stripes from the exit of one corner to the braking zone of the next, you have enough horsepower. - Mark Donohue

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by ross1 View Post
    All I can gather for certain is that the OP has a leaking valve cover gasket which is oiling the plug wells and there is an overheating issue.
    The overheating is the primary concern here and all this dirty oil talk is derailing a diagnosis for that.
    Hi yes! I took the covers off and replaced the valve cover gasket both perimeter and internal as they had both hardened extremely and started to wear (probably never been changed).

    I’m in the process of putting everything back together to be able to do the compression test just to make sure I haven’t done any damage to the head or gaskets from the sudden overheating. As well as just to check up on the rings, as these also haven’t been checked while I’ve owned the car.

    I have done about 50,000km over the past two years. I do a service about every quarter. So around every 6-7000 kms my car gets new oil, oil filter, airbox clean, and fluid check done by myself.

  19. #19
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    yes, now to water leak...

    Quote Originally Posted by ross1 View Post
    All I can gather for certain is that the OP has a leaking valve cover gasket which is oiling the plug wells and there is an overheating issue.
    The overheating is the primary concern here and all this dirty oil talk is derailing a diagnosis for that.

    op still has overheat-bad. goal should be , find the leak. cut up big cardboard box, about 3' by 4' and park over it or slip it under vehicle after parking overnite.
    next morning-several hours later-with bright light look for coolant drips on cardboard. if seen, jack car, place on jack stands, roll under with light and look at undercarriage for coolant drops. my last leak was from loose big hose to bottom of plastic coolant tank. leak before that from a partially cracked upper rad neck leaking under the upper rad hose which i believe blew out from pressure caused by failed stuck closed thermostat. thermo housing can leak, waterpump can leak, all the hose connections have potential to leak.
    my manual says to top up system weekly. once i forgot to topup for more that a month and overheated just sitting still too long and being at least a quart low in system. op, if you can't find leak you can't know where to begin - esp should you have no repair records, so you may have to replace everything. i keep detailed record of my repairs, so normally i don't have to replace everything every few years. dried whitish spots can be tell tail signs of leak esp higher up in engine compartment.
    couple weeks ago i replaced virtually all coolant parts in my '94.
    best fill advice is in bentley book with cold engine. best source i have found on understanding complicated bmw coolant systems is by r shaffner-do a search. good luck.

  20. #20
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    So I completed my compression tests, both wet and dry they are:

    Dry
    159
    159
    163
    157
    158
    160

    Wet
    171
    165
    167
    164
    167
    168

    Seems to me like no damage was done to the head and there was no cross contamination of fluids. Major relief!

    My next focus is fully on the cooling system. I’ll be taking it to a euro specialist (friend of mine who owns a shop, and races/build m54 b30 engines). He is going to have a look to see if he can diagnose exactly where the leak is as I have no idea even once cleaning engine and having car run as to where the coolant is leaking from. He is giving me the option of whether to fix myself or to let him do it. So I’m not too worried at this point of price.

    I will let you all know once he is done. Appreciate all your help! Thanks again!

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