Navigation Radio retrofit

[97M62BimmerKid]

Hi all,
I have access to several E38 7 series, most of which with the navigation radio, I can’t stop messing with my car so of course I have to have the Nav radio, I got one, but I’m assuming I need the rest of the wiring too, because it matches absolutely none of the connectors on the MID in my 540. As I previously said, I have access to a bunch of these cars, what parts are absolutely essential to make this work? Any and all advice is appreciated.

Thanks,
-Andrew

[dannyzabolotny]

Honestly it's not worth the effort to retrofit an outdated E38 nav system... it's a lot of wiring and you'll still be left with a clunky old interface. Save some time and money and get something like a Dynavin, Avin Avant, or an E o n o n (had to spell it that way because the forum censors it otherwise). Those all look fairly OEM while offering Bluetooth and modern functionality.

[sealbeach740]

This should help, but like danny (above) mentioned, it's not an easy task to do.
An E38 retrofit should be very similar to an E39 retrofit.
http://e38.org/e38_nav_retrofit.pdf

[Frankie]

...I have to have the Nav radio...it matches absolutely none of the connectors on the MID in my 540.

Hmm. Your post is confusing.

Are you trying to install a C43 nav radio from an E38 into your non-nav E39? If so, why? The C43 has no face display and is not meant for in-dash use. Furthermore it won't fit the MID plug because that's a completely different piece of equipment. E39 non-nav radios reside under the wood trim, whose plug would fit the C43.

Or are you trying to do a full nav retrofit into your non-nav E39?

[mxchris727]

Here's a thread I created a few years ago showing my experience retrofitting the factory NAV:

https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...-Than-Expected


At this point, I don't recommend it but I do like the factory look. The latest map update is 2015, and does not support any traffic.

[DennisCooper]

Hi 97M62bimmerkid,

It's a question that's been asked multiple hundreds if not thousands of times over all the BMW forums!

Perhaps 8-12 years ago, quite a number of owners would do this retrofit where they 'absolutely' had to have the OEM setup. Nowadays, not so much given the reasons above and more. If you have the money/time/space/patience then research some more and go for it. Keep in mind, longer term you'll need to keep throwing money at the setup as each module fails (each has multiple points of failure) and you need to keep each one working in order to have sound/features. If you want to then 'add on' more features, it's more spend, and if you then want to improve the mediocre at best sound quality, you'll have to spend yet more.

The Chinese units mentioned above are replacement type, all in one units and over the forums again, there's many threads where owners have purchased and posted up their reviews - it's mixed with some reporting fully working from day 1 and perhaps 1/2 years later and plenty more reporting issues/problems both small and major. Again, do your research to see if you want/wish to take the gamble on one of these low quality units.

There are high quality head units from the likes of Pioneer, Kenwood, Alpine, Sony, Parrot, JVC which are excellent in every respect but don't have the OEM looks of the BMW 16:9 monitor many/most E39 owners want in their cars. The fascias/bezels for these units were plain and many reported they didn't like the look of them and wouldn't want to then install a high quality/reliable head unit. Fortunately, there's now a high quality solution where an excellent, high quality head unit can be installed with an OEM look fascia/fitting kit It looks like this:

Parrot Asteroid Smart -



Alpine iLX-007 (iLX-700 in the UK market)



I do know the Alpine iLX-W650 which has recently been released in the USA also fits, (funny angle!) picture here

https://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e3...upgrade-2.html

Full details are here too - https://forum.bmw5.co.uk/topic/13564...le-din-fascia/

Cheers, Dennis!

[TexasTouring]

Having done this retrofit on my E39, and on an E46, the hardest parts to find will be the specific wiring harness and mounting brackets for your specific model. The different modules (radio, screen, nav computer, GPS antenna, etc.) are all cheap to find on eBay, and it sounds like you have a few of each already.

As far as brackets, you'll need at a minimum the bracket for the nav computer in the trunk, the bracket for the radio tuner (also in the trunk), and the bracket for the display in the dash.

For wiring, the easier option is to find an OEM retrofit harness. But others have done this by taking a harness out of a car that came with the system from factory.

On the E39, the whole lower dash and center console needs to come out to do this, along with most of the seats and trunk. It's not easy, but it is fun!

Personally, I like the OEM system more than any of the aftermarket options, but I like a lot of dumb things.

[97M62BimmerKid]

Well, I was thinking about aftermarket, but after seeing how an aftermarket radio looks compared to an OEM unit I had to have it. Like I said, I have access to a junkyard that charges next to nothing for all these expensive parts. Before this car I had a 2003 Yukon XL, and when I found out they offered a Navigation radio, I had to have it, solely because I love these old antiquated interfaces, something about it just feels right. Of course it seems the Yukon was ten times easier to install, I just had to take the dash pad off to install the antenna, all the other wiring was the same. Obviously this is a much higher quality vehicle with more components and complexity to its systems, I have the really tiny screen Nav unit, the one with the cassette deck on the top left side, and I prefer that. I understand it’s going to be a difficult task, but if it’s something I can go out one weekend and grab the parts, and then another weekend take apart the interior and install it all, I’m 100% down to do it. I pulled all nighters doing similar things to my truck when I had it, I’ll do the same to this car if that’s what I have to. What I’m most worried about is VIN programming, if the parts have a VIN stored on them as an anti-theft measure. I know that some companies were using codes, and others flat out programmed the VIN to the radio, or CD changer, or even to the cluster, so that’s what I’m most afraid of.

[zarboz]

Well, I was thinking about aftermarket, but after seeing how an aftermarket radio looks compared to an OEM unit I had to have it. Like I said, I have access to a junkyard that charges next to nothing for all these expensive parts. Before this car I had a 2003 Yukon XL, and when I found out they offered a Navigation radio, I had to have it, solely because I love these old antiquated interfaces, something about it just feels right. Of course it seems the Yukon was ten times easier to install, I just had to take the dash pad off to install the antenna, all the other wiring was the same. Obviously this is a much higher quality vehicle with more components and complexity to its systems, I have the really tiny screen Nav unit, the one with the cassette deck on the top left side, and I prefer that. I understand it’s going to be a difficult task, but if it’s something I can go out one weekend and grab the parts, and then another weekend take apart the interior and install it all, I’m 100% down to do it. I pulled all nighters doing similar things to my truck when I had it, I’ll do the same to this car if that’s what I have to. What I’m most worried about is VIN programming, if the parts have a VIN stored on them as an anti-theft measure. I know that some companies were using codes, and others flat out programmed the VIN to the radio, or CD changer, or even to the cluster, so that’s what I’m most afraid of.

Radio / nav / dsp amp do not store / care about VIN match to work in the car


http://www.bimmerboard.com/forums/posts/479497


youll basically be doing this retrofit just sub the 4:3 screen with a 16:9 screen (they are Plug N Play swappability )

[DennisCooper]

Well, I was thinking about aftermarket, but after seeing how an aftermarket radio looks compared to an OEM unit I had to have it. Like I said, I have access to a junkyard that charges next to nothing for all these expensive parts. Before this car I had a 2003 Yukon XL, and when I found out they offered a Navigation radio, I had to have it, solely because I love these old antiquated interfaces, something about it just feels right. Of course it seems the Yukon was ten times easier to install, I just had to take the dash pad off to install the antenna, all the other wiring was the same. Obviously this is a much higher quality vehicle with more components and complexity to its systems, I have the really tiny screen Nav unit, the one with the cassette deck on the top left side, and I prefer that. I understand it’s going to be a difficult task, but if it’s something I can go out one weekend and grab the parts, and then another weekend take apart the interior and install it all, I’m 100% down to do it. I pulled all nighters doing similar things to my truck when I had it, I’ll do the same to this car if that’s what I have to. What I’m most worried about is VIN programming, if the parts have a VIN stored on them as an anti-theft measure. I know that some companies were using codes, and others flat out programmed the VIN to the radio, or CD changer, or even to the cluster, so that’s what I’m most afraid of.

Fair enough if you *must* have the OEM stuff, just keep in mind you'll most likely have to keep spending on keeping all the old modules working longer term, they're failing much more often nowadays. If you use an older Mk1/Mk2/Mk3 GPS computer, then you'll need the video module to drive the monitor unit. If you get the Mk4 unit (uses DVD disks for the maps) that can drive the 16:9 monitor directly and no video module needed and this is the setup any E39 owner who *must* keep the OEM setup going wants and thus is significantly more expensive to purchase. With what you have in mind, it's also entirely possible any units/modules you pick from the junkyard might be faulty/dead units too.

Good luck if you do decide to go ahead!

Cheers, Dennis!

[TexasTouring]

Agree with Dennis that Aftermarket stuff is the smart play for all but the purists or the silly (me).

However, I know you can drive the monitor with the Mk3 CD unit without a TV tuner module (this is the setup I run right now). Not sure about the Mk1 and Mk2s though.

Don't be afraid of coding, none is required!

[97M62BimmerKid]

Glad to hear so, I’m not going to be using it for anything modern, I don’t care if the directions are accurate because that’s going to be a last resort for directions if anything, I just want a period correct car. I love going to car shows with it, and to have the top of the line options fitted to the car makes it even better to me. But I also daily it, so I want it all to work as it should, the reason I wanted the module with the cassette deck is because I can shove my cassette to Aux adapter in there and that works just fine for me. I don’t put that much of a priority on Bluetooth or Apple car play or whatever, I really could care less about the modern features, I’m just a sucker for these antiquated systems. It’s one of those quirky gimmicky features that I just love

[97M62BimmerKid]

Whoever told me to look into E O N O N units, I bought one, and it went smoothly until the brackets didn't line up, and it did not line up what so ever, I drove home with it loose in the hole, and just fiddled about with the settings, and I was quite disappointed with the sound quality, reinstalled the oem MID, I'm just giving up on this.

[97M62BimmerKid]

I did it. I spent 600 USD in new and used parts to barely get it limping on a TV tuner and 4:3, I wasn’t able to find any e39 4:3 trims, or even the correct brackets. So I inevitably upgraded to a very used 16:9 that works fine, and I lucked out, someone was selling a MKIV for sale that was listed as for parts, but turned out to work fine, and I already had an OEM map DVD. Overall I consider this to be very worth it. I just got my BlueBus in last week, and it’s even better. I’m in love with my new radio system. I’m glad to have old BimmerBoard posts and Tomas from BavTek as references. Tomas definitely helped me a lot.
https://youtu.be/SAOyi1vI-0A

just in case any of you want to see how I did it. It’s published on the e39source channel.

Kudos

[edjack]

Some people are masochists!

[97M62BimmerKid]

I’m no masochist, I’m just a little stupid and very persistent. Once I started taking things apart I got to a point where I said, I can’t give up now, I have to keep going, there’s no turning back. Now that it’s all in there and I’ve had a couple of months to live with it. It was 100% worth it. It all works beautifully. I use the navigation somewhat regularly when I’m in a pinch, I upgraded to a MKIV from a MKIII, which was a necessity for daily driveability.

I like the way the MKIII presents on the screen way better than the way the MKIV does, the MKIV looks a lot more like a mid 2000s system, while the MKIII has a much more Windows 95 A E S T H E T I C design, most likely due to graphical capabilities, or rather lack thereof.

I bought my MKIII running a very old version of the software, I liked the look of that, but it was very slow, I upgraded it to the latest software, and running maps was a chore with either software. About every quarter mile the screen would update, and it took a decent amount of time to redraw everything, by the time the computer had redrawn everything, it had to do it all over again.

the MKIV, I’ve never seen it redraw the map except when I zoom out really far. I like how quick it is, it’s very useable and very stable. And it’s not nearly as clunky as the e60’s I-Drive, or the Android OS that ran on the head unit I bought a year ago. I just miss the 1997 E38 750iL executive electronic aesthetic that the MKII/early MKIII had.

My only complaints are that the trim and mounting bracket for the e39 4:3 are near impossible to locate. I do somewhat miss my 4:3 display. I thought it was a very sharp and very crisp display, mine was also in mint condition, very clean, scratch free and bright, no dead spots in the display, overall a very positive experience, my only complaint was that it was a touch small. Although I must admit I loved having all the buttons that close to me.

I upgraded to a 16:9, it was from a Lithuanian 530d, it is scratched up, the display is very dim, other than that it’s in good shape and everything is fully operational. I should mention that I have prescription glasses, for my nearsightedness, so my sunglasses are always polarized, it’s impossible to see the 16:9 and the road/cluster at the same time wearing sunglasses. I had no such issues with my 4:3. Regardless, I’m not a fan of reaching all the way to the other side of the radio for the other set of buttons, the screen looks like it’s been poorly descaled to fit the wrong aspect ratio, text looks soft and smooshed in some areas. Far from the sharpness seen on my 4:3, but the extra screen space is very much appreciated.

I’m a huge fan of this GPS System, it’s reliable, and I live in an area where there aren’t any new developments, and I really don’t think there’s any room for anything new to sprout up. So the maps from 2004.5 still hold true to this day. I mostly use it to ogle the maps while driving, it helps when I get lost. It happens more than you’d imagine, you’re in an unfamiliar area and you just glance over at the screen and you can see that there’s a road just up ahead that will get you where you need to be. I find it’s quite helpful for when there’s unexpected construction or other obstruction forcing a detoured route.

my complaints with the E o n o n were somewhat nit picky. I despised the Bluetooth audio sound quality, and if I recall the auxiliary was either not there or just a touch better. The graphic analyzer was clunky to use and only made it sound worse, I’ve never heard anything sound so bad in my life, and I’ve heard some garbage systems in my time. That and the installation instructions were terrible and very confusing, I can’t hassle them too hard on that, I understand it’s difficult to translate from Chinese to English. The backlighting could never perfectly match the interior backlights. I’m a perfectionist, I’m literally so nit picky about my car, I couldn’t unsee it and therefore I couldn’t forgive it. The Android OS was not a crowd pleaser for me either, it was really poor to use, with google maps barely working, and half the apps poorly functioning, when they did function. And then I get to the jankiest parts of it, the included mounting brackets were manufactured by Stevie Wonder and approved by Ray Charles. The holes did not line up what so ever, and the threads were chunky. If I was able to line up the brackets with the actual radio it would be more crooked than a local politician. And once I removed the radio from its hole after only a half hour of driving the radio body had become hot to the touch, if this device is running at temperatures that hot, I would not expect it to last very much longer than half a year tops.

That was my aftermarket experience, maybe I just had poor luck, maybe I got a bad batch, beats me, I’m over it, I’m so glad I went through with this retrofit.

[RosieE39]

The screen looks like it’s been poorly descaled to fit the wrong aspect ratio, text looks soft and smooshed in some areas. Far from the sharpness seen on my 4:3, but the extra screen space is very much appreciated.

There has to be something up - I’ve upgraded my ‘99 from 4:3 with MKII (and TV) to widescreen (replaced the LCD) with MKIV (and Hybrid Digital) and have no issues.
(I’ve also modded my Nav OS and Map data for speed cams)

Happy to help you troubleshoot to try and make it better if you’d like.

[97M62BimmerKid]

I think I’m running the same OS, it’s modified, this has the ///M splash screen, and the manual night/day mode. Which I miss the auto night/day from the older software to be honest. I liked how when you turned the lights on the screen would shift to a more amber tone. I got the link from e39source. Although I think there are supposed to be a lot more features that I just haven’t figured out yet.

All I really know about the OS I’m running is that it’s V32 and it has the M splash screen.

I’m going to eventually replace my LCD on the 16:9 at some point because the LCD is the worst looking part of the device, it’s all scratched up from the years and it has a strange issue, because where I am we’ve experienced 100+ degree Fahrenheit weather, when I get into the car I notice that the screen has some weird color issues, most likely due to a soon to be dead LCD.