e38 740iL rescue attempt?

[Duhbeerski]

Hey guys. I'm a current e36 owner and a commercial parts runner for the advance in my area. One of our commercial accounts is a European specialist and he has a 99 (he thinks) 740iL sitting at his shop that the owner has decided not to repair. Here's the story, as he tells it:

Car came from New Jersey when the owner moved here to WV. Engine had an oil leak and the owner decided to try to remedy that with Lucas oil stabilizer. Ever since, the car makes a "knocking" sound. The shop owner thinks the Lucas junked the cam phasers/Vanos cam gear, and through my store those parts are +$700 each. He says its a possibility that it bent a valve. The battery is dead, so I can't get in the car just yet, and he said it doesn't start every time. The car looks otherwise well cared for, and is in overall good shape. Unsure on mileage

Do you think this is worth picking up? Is there a possibility that doing the timing system overhaul would fix the issue? Are the Cam phasers prone to failure? What should I even pay for something like this?

[sealbeach740]

Two things.
Unless the e38 is given to you free, once you're all done with the work, it won't be worth more than the parts you'll probably have to replace, not to mention the labor.

I'm not sure I'd trust a shop that keeps trying to start a car that they think possibly has a bent valve.
Just my $.02. There are other e38's out there for not a lot of money that run fine.

[Duhbeerski]

Well i got more info on the car today. It is indeed a 99 and has 218k miles on it. I asked the shop owner if I could borrow a jump pack and the key to investigate a little further. I was able to get the electronics working and get in the interior, and I even attempted to start the car. When I tried, the starter relay clicked in succession several times but the starter did not fire. Is it possible that the jump pack did not have enough amperage to get the engine to crank, or is it a likely sign that the engine is locked up?

Parts and labor are of no concern to me, as I can get commercial pricing + coupons, and I am a competent enough mechanic to do a timing over haul on this jewel baby. Current owner only wants 1k for the car as it sits. Also, are hood latch cables a common problem with these cars? I'm used to the bmw having two pin "catches" on each side of the front support, but this one seemed to be seized, and pulling the hood latch in the interior and the lever in the kidneys did not avail me anything. I'm thinking about taking a new battery to it or a fully charged jump pack, to see if the car will actually start or even try to. I even managed to find the original window sticker with the literature today; it was priced right under 100k.

[georgebest]

Well i got more info on the car today. It is indeed a 99 and has 218k miles on it. I asked the shop owner if I could borrow a jump pack and the key to investigate a little further. I was able to get the electronics working and get in the interior, and I even attempted to start the car. When I tried, the starter relay clicked in succession several times but the starter did not fire. Is it possible that the jump pack did not have enough amperage to get the engine to crank, or is it a likely sign that the engine is locked up?

Parts and labor are of no concern to me, as I can get commercial pricing + coupons, and I am a competent enough mechanic to do a timing over haul on this jewel baby. Current owner only wants 1k for the car as it sits. Also, are hood latch cables a common problem with these cars? I'm used to the bmw having two pin "catches" on each side of the front support, but this one seemed to be seized, and pulling the hood latch in the interior and the lever in the kidneys did not avail me anything. I'm thinking about taking a new battery to it or a fully charged jump pack, to see if the car will actually start or even try to. I even managed to find the original window sticker with the literature today; it was priced right under 100k.

Run!

[Duhbeerski]

Run!

Care to elaborate?

[R Shaffner]

What's the old poker adage? "If you can't spot the patsy at the table, then it's you."

I think that's what others might be saying. If this car was easy to get running without spending a lot, they would already have done it, right? The owner would want to fix it so he could drive it or try to get more when selling it. The same goes for the shop owner. If it was worth fixing and or selling, he probably would. Hell, it if was worth opening the hood for, he'd have done it -- he owns a shop! The odds are good they know more than you and more than they're telling you, and it's all bad.

That's what I'd mean if I told you to run.

I have to agree with others here. These cars can be expensive and a handful to maintain even if you buy one that's running well at the time you buy it. They're not that rare, especially ones over 200,000. The ONLY way I'd even bother to take a closer look at this one would be if they were giving it away, or if I really loved the model and other things about it.

[robo740il]

A number of E38 enthusiasts have used Lucas Synthetic Oil Stabilizer, so I doubt it had anything to do with the engine problems. The car probably has broken timing chain guides. Each time it is started, the chance for the chain to skip a tooth and result in bent valves increases. (Possibly already happened)
Ask the shop owner to drop the oil pan and see if it is full of broken plastic chain guide pieces. It is only a 15 minute job and will help you decide your next step.

[georgebest]

Care to elaborate?

The car has no market value even after you fixed it up. Any time and money you spend on it will be a waste.
Also, even with your discounts the parts will be expensive.
It's a much better to deal to buy something in the $3K-$6K range where the previous owner spent the money on the parts already.

[Mayorchuck]

No way I would pay more than salvage money for the car. The whole story doesn't make sense. '99 is the first year for the facelift model. If you want to buy an E38 with bad guides, at least wait for a 2001. Even then I would want to see service records. Suspension and cooling system could cost you more than doing the guides.

I'm with George, find one with the work already done. I won't have another unless the guides have been replaced already. JMO

[pascal32]

This does not sound like a car worth buying. When buying not running it is reasonable to take a conservative way at what is needed, cost of parts and labor, add to buy cost and see where you end up compared to a car that doesn’t need it- this sounds like you would be well past a running buy.

also consider other things that aren’t obvious like needing all new suspension parts (tie rod ends, Pittman arm, drag bar, control arms, and much more.

[CPHES]

In 99, 750’s were just touching 100k. Even a highline 740iL would have to be heavily optioned to get that high a sticker. Get us the last 7 of the vin, and we can tell you more. Everyone has given you good advice, this is a car to dump a lot of time and money into. Many of us have done this before, so the advice is hard learned. You can’t open the hood to see what the engine looks like - it may already be disassembled, and you can’t tell. Not for 1K. Maybe $250.

[racer2086]

Holy cow, I'd give him $10 for it and plan on spending $5000 to get it running. Preferably, I wouldn't pay a dime for it.

Just by shear sound of the story, the guy never took care of it from the start, so you're guaranteed suspension work, cooling work, whatever oil leak it is, timing guides, and maybe transmission work in the near future. I'm not sure what parts you have access to, but it seems the more complicated the job, the harder to get parts from other than the dealer or specialized online stores.

[Duhbeerski]

Okay so let's say I don't pay 1k for it. Let's say I pay a fraction of that. I'm not really interested in resale value, I buy my cars to drive, not to sell. And, worst case scenario, it does need a new engine. would it not be worth putting an engine in? Even if I can't/don't go that route, I feel it would definitely pay for itself in parting out if nothing else.

The full VIN is WBAGH8334XDP03693

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[DIEGOBMW]

Not a bad looking 7. Is it Barritz blue?

[Duhbeerski]

Not a bad looking 7. Is it Barritz blue?

Yes according to one of the decoder sites. it also has "green windscreen with green shade band"

[CPHES]

Ok, so resale value aside - I don’t think any of us took that part of the thread seriously. The less you spend getting in, the more dollars you have to spend. An e38 can suck your wallet dry in ways that your e36 can only dream of. I hope we all set your expectations. It looks ok for 218k on the clock, and likely money was spent keeping it nice. Good luck if you go down this path

[racer2086]

Biarritz Blue is a nice blue. So it has that going for it. Clean enough for the miles and age. The problem is these cars are so much more technical and complicated than a 3 series. There are so many more parts on it that need attention than my E46, for example. So I'm sure you can get it running. I think what everyone is getting at is that there are so many opportunities to find these cars, that you may do better looking around for a bit and finding one for a good price that is already driving.

What happens if the transmission goes out in 10k miles? Mine died at 240k, which you are not far from. I don't think they last much longer than that without regular fluid and filter changes.

[georgebest]

Biarritz Blue is a nice blue. So it has that going for it. Clean enough for the miles and age. The problem is these cars are so much more technical and complicated than a 3 series. There are so many more parts on it that need attention than my E46, for example. So I'm sure you can get it running. I think what everyone is getting at is that there are so many opportunities to find these cars, that you may do better looking around for a bit and finding one for a good price that is already driving.

What happens if the transmission goes out in 10k miles? Mine died at 240k, which you are not far from. I don't think they last much longer than that without regular fluid and filter changes.

Good point, that's an instant $3K minimum (rebuild). That's why buying one with lower mileage for around $3K is a much better deal. Just check the forum here with the craigslist etc postings.
Here is an example of what I found there: https://binghamton.craigslist.org/ct...900567819.html

[Thresher]

Okay so let's say I don't pay 1k for it. Let's say I pay a fraction of that. I'm not really interested in resale value, I buy my cars to drive, not to sell. And, worst case scenario, it does need a new engine. would it not be worth putting an engine in? Even if I can't/don't go that route, I feel it would definitely pay for itself in parting out if nothing else.

The full VIN is WBAGH8334XDP03693

I like the color, same as my 2001 740iL! I too am a long-time E36 owner and I picked up my first E38 last summer. If you get this car, you will be sinking some $ into it in order to bring it up to whatever you consider to be a stable/reliable enough car. From my own personal experience, you can easily spend $6k-$7k (or more!) between yourself and an indy mechanic to fix stuff that needs fixing. The VIN decoder I used didn't report the car as having EDC or SLS, so any work on the struts/shocks will be reasonable all things considered. I like the fact that it has the heated seats. If you have a good local mechanic, ask him to go with you to check out the car. Unlike your E36, these cars seem to suck electricity. I bought a battery tender six months ago and recharge my battery in my garage once a week. I like to think this is what it is like to own hybrid car. :-)

What to do? Make a list of the things you know need to be fixed. Make a list of the things you want to be fixed. Assign an estimated cost to each item. Then determine what your budget is for unexpected surprises ($4k-$5k might be a good number if the car isn't running). Look at the numbers. If you can manage the dollar signs in front of you and the car is in good shape (paint, leather, little to no body rust) then take on the project. Otherwise, look for better E38 to ease into.

Still not convinced? Here is what was done to my E38 during the past year:

• Replaced failing throttle body assembly.
• Replaced heater control valve and aux water pump.
• Replaced VANOS gaskets.
• Replaced radiator.
• Replaced expansion tank.
• Replaced water pump.
• Replaced thermostat.
• Replaced broken fan shroud.
• Changed coolant.
• Replaced leaking coolant hoses.
• Replaced leaking power steering hoses.
• Replaced leaking SLS hoses.
• Replaced oil pan and gasket.
• Fixed valve cover leak.
• Replaced power steering / SLS fluid.
• Replaced alternator.
• Replaced engine mounts.
• Replaced driver side seat control cover.
• Changed engine oil twice.
• Bought new Lloyd floor mats (nice!).
• Replaced front and rear tires.
• Replaced headlight washer pump.
• Bought a paint touch up kit.
• Replaced busted oil filter housing mounts.
• Replaced hazard switch on center console.
• Replaced front brakes and rotors.
• Replaced windshield washer pump.
• Replaced left and right headlight gaskets.
• Bought a battery tender.
• Installed a Bluetooth antennae.
• Installed a TCU.
• Installed a voice control module (SES).
• Refoamed two rear subwoofers.
• Replaced a power window switch.
• Replaced brake fluid.
• Replaced parking brake shock absorber.
• Replaced 4:3 monitor with 16:9 widescreen monitor.
• Repaired glove box latch.
• Bought the Bentley publishing service manual for the E38.
• Replaced the MKII navigation system with a MKIV navigation system.
• Bought 2015 DVD navigation maps.
• Replaced center phone console with tray insert.
• Replaced water pump belt.
• Replaced air conditioner belt.
• Replaced damaged left front bumper trim.
• Replaced center ashtray with coin tray.
• Replaced broken air intake duct in engine bay.
• Replaced broken left rear small shade.
• Replaced left front grille.
• Replaced gas tank filler cap.
• Ordered replacement keys (universal, valet and spare key).
• Replaced both front turn signals.
• Replaced both trunk shocks.
• Installed a Wheelskin leather cover on the steering wheel.
• Replaced cracked acoustic engine cover.
• Replaced engine air filter.
• Replaced cabin air filters.
• Replaced recirculation air filters.
• Bought 4 jack pad adapters.
• Replaced missing drain plug in spare tire well.
• Replaced missing gasket between fan shroud and radiator.
• Replaced missing transmission bolt.
• Installed front belly pan/shield.

... and here is the upcoming work:

• Need to replace both pairs of upper control arms on each rear axle.
• Need to replace both tension strut and control arm on each front axle.
• Need to replace front sway bar bushings.

Despite all that I had to deal with, I have to say, I love driving my E38!