Results 1 to 13 of 13

Thread: What else to replace along with lifter tick fix?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Miami
    Posts
    40
    My Cars
    1995 BMW M3

    What else to replace along with lifter tick fix?

    I would like to start off by saying I am not good with cars. Besides the basic stuff of changing fluids and brake pads I am an absolute noob.

    That being said, I have a 1995 M3(S50) track car with 133,000 miles that I take mostly to Homestead and Sebring. It has basic stuff that was done by the previous owner and some by one of my local mechanics. It has a second fuel pump(no more fuel starvation finally), headers(cheap off of ebay from what i understand), exhaust system, mishimoto cooling system, bimmerworld power steering kit, ground control suspension and camber plates, UUC poly engine mounts, tranny mounts, RTABs, and short shifter.

    I get the infamous lifter ticking at the track when the engine gets really hot. I am running Redline 15W50 about a half quart overfilled and this has definitely reduced the ticking. Before I ran this oil I would get the tick after the first session on track and it would stay basically the whole day.

    Is this something that can be adjusted or do I have to replace a part? I am having that looked at in a week by a mechanic and wanted to know what parts I should order (along with a valve cover gasket that I already have from bimmerworld) to fix this issue along with any other parts to *future proof* the car now that he is already going to be in there? I read something about a pick up tube cracking on these cars so is this something that is easy to replace? This car is only used to drive to the track, drive on the track and drive home from the track. Other than that it sits in a garage.

    Sorry if any of these questions are dumb.

    Secondly, which transmission oil would be most appropriate for track purposes? I know there is a ton of information out there on which oil should be used but I only car about what is "best" for a track only car in South Florida temps?
    Last edited by BeeHemDoubleU; 06-07-2019 at 12:30 PM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Whidbey Island, WA
    Posts
    576
    My Cars
    1998 Techno M3 Coupe
    Replacing the pick up tube means you have to drop the oil pan. If you drop the oil pan then you open up opportunities to do other work. Really depends on your budget.
    If you go this route and have budget then a new, hardened oil pump would not be a bad idea for a track car in hot weather. Also, an oil pan baffle I would think is a must for a track car.
    You could go the S54 dual oil pickup route but that starts getting into more money. And "while you are in there" rod bearings could be looked at and replaced if needed.

    As far as the lifter tick, I'll let others answer.
    But if you replace the lifters that means the cams are coming off. If the cams come off then the vanos is coming off. That would be a good time to rebuild the vanos.

    I use Redline MTL in my transmission. Generally considered a good transmission oil. Not sure about a track only solution though. Good luck!
    Last edited by JitteryJoe; 06-07-2019 at 12:53 PM.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    1,433
    My Cars
    1999 BMW M3 Coupe
    You can try adding a bit more oil. Many people, myself included, run around 1 quart over.

    For trans fluid, I use MTL on the track and it's fine. It's a little thicker than ATF, so it should hold up a little better (though I think either is probably fine). You might ask in the track section if there's more aggressive specialty fluids some people use.
    1999 M3/2/5 - Titanium Silver - Track/Weekend Toy


  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    FL
    Posts
    4,754
    My Cars
    are slow.
    If you're pickup tube was cracked, you'd know. It wouldn't just come up with hard corners.

    https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...n-pipe-failure

    It would be apparent outside of the track.

    It sounds like you're having oil starvation during hard turns, so maybe at minimum an oil baffle kit (not really a great fix). The S52 euro dual pickup/ S54 unit works great for track use.

    http://www.eatsleeptinker.com/2013/0...50s52-engines/

    It's an expensive fix, but it keeps oil flowing at high G turns, and is cheaper than a new engine.


    Redline MTL is a 75w-85 oil, and the Redline MT90 is the 90 weight. I personally just run the Redline MTL. Seems to be fine in FL. The fluid can take a lot of heat, and doesn't break down as fast as ATF would in the heat.

    James Clay at Bimmerworld run the D4 ATF:

    https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...0#post25783500

    Not to get too technical here, but I wonder if James is okay running the ATF because they change the fluid pretty often. ATF starts to break down above 240F, though I imagine the Redline does a bit better. The real issue is keeping the fluid viscous at high temperatures. Bronze materials in the transmission starts to soften around 300F, and having a fluid that can hold the film strength up to that temperature is essential.

    https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/m...th-d_1353.html

    Either way, change it often, I think you'll be fine. Plus, the 5-speed ZF transmissions are cheap and plentiful, I have 4 in my garage as we speak, and support FAR more abuse than you'll likely put it through.

    UUC recommendations for another data point:

    http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/html_te...e36_fluids.htm

    Though I think that 75w110 is a better fluid for the diff than 75w90.
    "Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind."
    -Dr. Seuss
    DIY BMW Tools. Charlie For President

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    1,433
    My Cars
    1999 BMW M3 Coupe
    Agree on the diff fluid. When I got my new diff from diffsonline some years back I opted for 75w140 at their recommendation. They didn't recommend 75w90 for anything other than street or very light track use. Now of course there's the 75w110 which I'm currently using and seems like an excellent compromise. Still thick enough, but thinner than the 140 and probably frees up a few horsepower in driveline losses as a result.

    I tend to thrash my car around pretty good when I have it at the track, so I like all the protection I can get. Being relatively low power compared to all the vettes and GT3RS's and exotics I'm usually out there with, I can safely be way more aggressive than someone in a 600hp car can. Plus, I don't like getting passed constantly.
    Last edited by TostitoBandito; 06-07-2019 at 07:46 PM.
    1999 M3/2/5 - Titanium Silver - Track/Weekend Toy


  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Whidbey Island, WA
    Posts
    576
    My Cars
    1998 Techno M3 Coupe
    Bimmerworld sells a dual pickup oil pan/pump conversion. The bad news is that it is $2K. I'd say build your own but, as you said, you are not mechanically inclined.
    https://www.bimmerworld.com/Engine/E...p-Upgrade.html

    If you pull the pan then I would for sure get a baffle welded in. I have an Achilles Motorsports one. About $150. The dual pickup is kind of the optimal solution. Spendy though.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    1,433
    My Cars
    1999 BMW M3 Coupe
    I'd argue that a baffled OEM single pickup pan, optionally with reinforced pump/pickup, is just fine on the track even for a racecar. If you run a suitable level of oil you shouldn't have any starvation issues unless your car has WAY more power and grip/downforce than stock and is capable of pulling the g's required to cause issues.

    That said, the more hardcore options like the dual pickup S54 pan/pump (essentially what that kit is) or going to a dry sump system are also fine if you're ok with spending the money to do it. Just probably not entirely necessary.
    Last edited by TostitoBandito; 06-07-2019 at 08:52 PM.
    1999 M3/2/5 - Titanium Silver - Track/Weekend Toy


  8. #8
    MauiM3Mania's Avatar
    MauiM3Mania is offline Observer/Master Skeptic Moderator
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Central Pacific
    Posts
    10,809
    My Cars
    88M3 99M3 04M3 ITBx16
    Moved to the Track sub-forum.
    04M3 TiAg 69k slick-top 3 pedal
    99M3 Cosmos 61k S50B32 euro 6Spd

    88M3 AW 43k miles Project FS


    WTB: 3.5" Eurosport/Conforti CAI

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Springfield, IL
    Posts
    2,491
    My Cars
    '95m3(Avus)/996tt/4.8is
    Interesting that in the BMW world, accusump is a taboo topic but we invest heavily into dual sump systems (for even HPDE cars) that cost more than the motor itself.

    Accusump on my ls swap is 250 dollar insurance. I have zero shame for this "bandaid" approach and If the motor explodes I will not be happy but will definately not live in regret for not purchasing a $5k dry sump solution.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    metairie, la
    Posts
    224
    My Cars
    1999 e36 M3
    +1 for Accusump. My car had valve tick and oil pressure dips even with a good baffle kit and 1 qt overfill. No more valve tick after adding a 3qt Accusump system.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    5,776
    My Cars
    99 M3

    What else to replace along with lifter tick fix?

    Keep in mind the S54 oil pump has mechanical lifters and does not require the volume of oil the S52 requires with it’s hydraulic lifters.

    VAC has a solution, an increased capacity S54 OP -
    https://store.vacmotorsports.com/mob...b32-p1033.aspx




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Last edited by bluptgm3; 06-08-2019 at 10:23 PM.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Central, MD
    Posts
    3,847
    My Cars
    1995 M3
    OP, you're in an expensive corner of ownership for these cars. PAYING someone to do all the work needed to build a bullet-ish proof S5x race engine isn't cheap.
    Honestly, my recommendation....add 1Qt extra oil, wear ear plugs. Lifter tick itself is harmless. These engines seem to run forever even when the oil pickup tube goes dry every once in a while.
    I personally don't see the value in putting $2-4k of reliability improvements into an otherwise stock engine. Sure, if I was building a 285hp race engine I'd spend the extra few $'s to keep it safe.

    All that said, the above accusump recommendations might be the best fix/$$ for this problem.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Henley-on-Thames, UK
    Posts
    381
    My Cars
    2017 Range Rover Sport
    If you've got ticking lifters that won't quiet down, then you eventually need to replace the lifters. "Lifters" are actually hydraulic valve lifters which are oil fed and act to support the valves and account for temperature differences in materials so the valve-camshaft interaction has the appropriate clearance.

    Replacing lifters isn't difficult if you're a decent mechanic but it is non-trivial. You have to have some special tools on the M5x engine to hold down the cams, and also to remove the VANOS. There are also some tricks to remove and install the lifters in the cam trays. While you're in there you'll want to inspect the cams, cam trays, and VANOS components for wear and replace as necessary. Fortunately there are plenty of YouTube and other videos our there that are a big help. I recommend using the magnet trick for installation, personally. The job takes several hours (It's been a while but I'm going to guess 5-6 for a seasoned wrench) and is about $600 in parts alone.

    When I did the job I thought that I had one bad lifter, but it turns out it was more like 10 of the 24 that were shot. The noise instantly went away the next time I started the engine.

    While there's nothing wrong with adding a bit of extra oil, once the lifters wear, nothing is going to quiet them down and there *is* a potential to do damage if the lifters are not operating properly, so either do the work or bite the bullet and pay somebody to do it.
    Shane K.
    '12 Mercedes Benz GL 350
    '13 328i
    '94 325i JS Race

Similar Threads

  1. Lifter Tick (Fixed)
    By apathy11303 in forum 1999 - 2006 (E46)
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 08-19-2015, 08:57 AM
  2. What else "should" be replaced along with a RForbes reinforcement kit?
    By poordna in forum 1996 - 2002 Z3 (E36/7, E36/8)
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 09-18-2014, 07:47 PM
  3. Anyone else with lifter tick in cold weather?
    By josephmotors in forum 1991 - 1999 (E36)
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 01-22-2005, 05:21 PM
  4. Anything else to replace with new Spark plugs?
    By ///Mracer in forum 1992 - 1999 M3 (E36)
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 07-25-2002, 03:15 PM
  5. Oil Level is high and Lifters ticking?????
    By Quake in forum General BMW Mechanical Help sponsored by RM European Auto Parts
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 11-18-2001, 02:23 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •