Headliner Sunroof Panel - How to install?

[David9999999]

I'm finally getting around to doing the headliner on my 8er. It's gone smoothly so far, except for the sunroof panel. When I bought the car, the sunroof headliner panel was missing and the PO had left it in the trunk. The sunroof still works as normal.

I've been reading up on the removal/installation of the sunroof headliner panel. The "Frankie's BMW" site mentions long rods that are used to release the floating sunroof headliner panel, which are not present on my car. It appears these are attached to "toothed racks" that are integral to the sunroof headliner panel? I have no idea what the previous owner did to remove the headliner panel, but it appears that the sunroof itself (the exterior part) has never been removed. I should note that the headliner panel I have is a bit bent up on the edges, and I'm not sure if it can be straightened. There are no pieces attached to the headliner panel I have.

Does anyone have photos or better explanation of how the sunroof headliner panel is installed in the car? What pieces do I need to install the headliner panel, and is it necessary to remove the sunroof (metal body-colored piece) to install? Or, does anyone have a car in the tri-state (NY/CT/NJ) area that I could take a look at? Thanks all!

[maint]

The exterior part is easy to remove, 3 screws on each side attach it and then lift it off. You should need to remove it to remove the inner section. There are two 'knobs' on the inner panel that hold it to the mechanism for opening (nothing else). The rod allows you to release the inner from those knobs so you can slide it back by hand. You then remove the 'toothed racks and another piece (cable trolleys) to slide the inner panel out. I have mine out now and here is a pic of what I removed. The pencil sized shiny rod is what you push to release the inner panel from the mechanism. The rest of the mechanism is hidden under the outer roof part, a lot easier to to access with the outer tilted up. The screws holding it go into the plastic piece that is tilted up in the pic.

[Pneill316]

Got mine out right now to do the headliner as well. Mine just appears to be glued to the metal sunroof, was just gonna recover it in place.529CE7C1-5725-40AA-B763-47F5399BDC54.jpgACD470FE-3EEF-4D71-ACB7-ACFB58CB3B9F.jpg

[MHambrice]

I had mine out as well to redo along with headliner, it wasn't to hard, IIRC, to take a scrapped and remove it from the metal panel recover. Just slow and easy, allows wrapping the edges easier.

[radlaw]

I got rid of mine.

[David9999999]

The exterior part is easy to remove, 3 screws on each side attach it and then lift it off. You should need to remove it to remove the inner section. There are two 'knobs' on the inner panel that hold it to the mechanism for opening (nothing else). The rod allows you to release the inner from those knobs so you can slide it back by hand. You then remove the 'toothed racks and another piece (cable trolleys) to slide the inner panel out. I have mine out now and here is a pic of what I removed. The pencil sized shiny rod is what you push to release the inner panel from the mechanism. The rest of the mechanism is hidden under the outer roof part, a lot easier to to access with the outer tilted up. The screws holding it go into the plastic piece that is tilted up in the pic.

Thanks, that's really helpful. I think that means I'm only missing those pieces with the silver rod. Are there any screws that hold those pieces to the assembly? Unfortunately it looks like the PO forced the headliner interior panel out without removing the sunroof somehow- it's all bent up on the corners. I'll probably hunt down another one in better condition before recovering and installing.

Got mine out right now to do the headliner as well. Mine just appears to be glued to the metal sunroof, was just gonna recover it in place

Yours looks the same as mine. I think you're missing the interior headliner panel.

[Pneill316]

Mine is shown with the interior headliners materials removed, as I was gluing a new headliner on, don’t think I’m missing anything as the headliner is attached to the ugly orange piece? As for the 3 screws to attach, you probably are missing the plastic rails and/or they are broken, a common failure point on the sunroofs.

Take a pic of what your working with and maybe that’ll help us see what your missing.

[G8nightman]

Where is NY are you I have done this on a few 8 and i am familiar with it?

[maint]

[QUOTE=David9999999;30271780]Thanks, that's really helpful. I think that means I'm only missing those pieces with the silver rod. Are there any screws that hold those pieces to the assembly?


The toothed gear slides under a flange on the cable trolley and meshes to a gear and can be fiddly to remove/install. The cable trolley is held down and slides along the 'slide rail' which has 5 screws in it. Even while looking at it in place it can be a bit confusing

[G8nightman]

Here is how it works

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlArGTe4-rU

[David9999999]

Mine is shown with the interior headliners materials removed, as I was gluing a new headliner on, don’t think I’m missing anything as the headliner is attached to the ugly orange piece? As for the 3 screws to attach, you probably are missing the plastic rails and/or they are broken, a common failure point on the sunroofs.

Take a pic of what your working with and maybe that’ll help us see what your missing.

The piece I'm referring to is simply a rectangle, not the shape of the orange area in your photos. To me that orange piece looks like sound deadening on the outer body-colored sunroof panel, no? I'll have to take some photos this weekend. Unfortunately the car stays about an hour's drive away from me.

The toothed gear slides under a flange on the cable trolley and meshes to a gear and can be fiddly to remove/install. The cable trolley is held down and slides along the 'slide rail' which has 5 screws in it. Even while looking at it in place it can be a bit confusing

Think I understand it now, so in that case I'm probably only missing the 2 toothed pieces that clip on to the interior headliner panel.

Here is how it works

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlArGTe4-rU

Thanks, that's really helpful! So the interior headliner panel is supposed to slide backwards in the "vent" position? It's never been installed on my car since I've had it. I'm in Astoria but the car isn't kept in NY. Thanks for the offer though!

[Pneill316]

As I drove my other e31 today and looked up I realized what you are talking about now and yes you were correct I am also missing that part too. Sometime being blissfully ignorant is a good thing, but now I’ll add that to the to-do list.

[G8nightman]

You can come by and take a look I’m in Astoria as well.


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[David9999999]

As I drove my other e31 today and looked up I realized what you are talking about now and yes you were correct I am also missing that part too. Sometime being blissfully ignorant is a good thing, but now I’ll add that to the to-do list.

Looking at this diagram: http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=54_0009

#6 is attached to #2 with hex nuts (#4) that also hold down the side plastic trims #3. The "orange stuff" in your photo is supposed to be covered with a thin piece of fabric, because when the sunroof tilts up it will be visible from outside.

I'm realizing now I'll also have to cover the "orange stuff" on my car, but that might be an issue because the headliner material I have is padded. The padding might be too thick and cause binding issues.

You can come by and take a look I’m in Astoria as well.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks! I'll send you a message.

[Pneill316]

I redid the upper most with padded headliner, but know you got me thinking about clearance. I’ll check out my other one to see if that little bit of padding will matter.

[cartoonz]

I redid the upper most with padded headliner, but know you got me thinking about clearance. I’ll check out my other one to see if that little bit of padding will matter.

The upper most covering directly on the pad under the lid isnt suspect, it is when you cover the lower sliding panel that thickness counts- that will destroy all the mechanical parts.

[Pneill316]

The upper most covering directly on the pad under the lid isnt suspect, it is when you cover the lower sliding panel that thickness counts- that will destroy all the mechanical parts.

Ah that makes sense, Thanks for the clarity!

[Kimolaoha]

The upper most covering directly on the pad under the lid isnt suspect, it is when you cover the lower sliding panel that thickness counts- that will destroy all the mechanical parts.

Reviving a 2 year old thread because this is the exact info I need.

I'm using 1/8" headliner material for my job, but want to confirm the following:
Will recovering the sliding LOWER panel with that same 1/8" headliner material be too thick and cause mechanical issues (it does seem like the original covering had a bit of loft to it)? If so, can I just clean up the panel and original material well and recover it with the original material?
Will recovering the upper lid's existing orange "foam" with that same 1/8" material render it too thick?
Thanks
Kimo

[cartoonz]

you need to shave the foam on the sliding cover so it is thin on the two side edges AND where it folds over the edge of the sliding cover. As long as you do that, the sliding cover should not bind and you are far less likely to need a rebuild.

[henryc]

Cartoonz is right! We have several folks in our BC8s group that had their headliners replaced by trim shops that used a material that was too thick. Now their sunroofs do not function as they should. This site may be of assistance to you:
/Henry

http://www.frankies-bmw.com/8series/...es_sunroof.php

[smc850ci]

you need to shave the foam on the sliding cover so it is thin on the two side edges AND where it folds over the edge of the sliding cover. As long as you do that, the sliding cover should not bind and you are far less likely to need a rebuild.

Thanks for that. I too was wondering, as I've heard of the binding issues with a thicker material. Still waiting for my headliner material to arrive !

[Kimolaoha]

you need to shave the foam on the sliding cover so it is thin on the two side edges AND where it folds over the edge of the sliding cover. As long as you do that, the sliding cover should not bind and you are far less likely to need a rebuild.

Thanks 'toonz - really good to hear from you, it had been quite a long while since I posted here.
Would appreciate your further thoughts on the following additional questions.

I think I understand your advice on reducing the overall (top and bottom) thickness of the sliding panel material around the left and right edges. Is this because UNshaved material would otherwise tend to push the panel UP and off the trolley and slide mechanism gearing?

Can standard headliner foam indeed be neatly shaved from the back of the material (by an experienced upholsterer), or does it tend to come off unevenly leaving visible bumps at the borders where it will be folded over?

Would it be feasible to shave off ALL of the sliding panel cover's foam and adhere the material directly to the panel, or would the adhesive bleed through (I have even considered re-using the existing stock material, but it would not exactly match the new material)?

How about the material covering the headliner shell itself? Must that also be shaved where it folds up and around the moonroof cavity rectangular opening? I'd think that UNshaved material would otherwise also add thickness where the trolley and slide mechanisms operate. Or is it ok to leave that material 'as is'?

Finally, I understand that the material on the underside of the exterior/uppermost moonroof can be installed 'as is' (1/8 or 3/16 thick) over the existing orange "pad" without concern?

Cartoonz is right! We have several folks in our BC8s group that had their headliners replaced by trim shops that used a material that was too thick. Now their sunroofs do not function as they should. This site may be of assistance to you:
/Henry
http://www.frankies-bmw.com/8series/...es_sunroof.php

Thanks Henry - I've studied Frankie's site pretty closely, including his subsequent experience with failure of his new slider mechanisms because of material that was too thick. I really don't want to go down that road, thus all these questions. I wish I was in FL and could take the car to Bill at Headliner Express, but will need to rely on my local shop that is very good, but has limited experience with E31 jobs.

Thanks both!

[smc850ci]

Thanks 'toonz - really good to hear from you, it had been quite a long while since I posted here.
Would appreciate your further thoughts on the following additional questions.

I think I understand your advice on reducing the overall (top and bottom) thickness of the sliding panel material around the left and right edges. Is this because UNshaved material would otherwise tend to push the panel UP and off the trolley and slide mechanism gearing?

Can standard headliner foam indeed be neatly shaved from the back of the material (by an experienced upholsterer), or does it tend to come off unevenly leaving visible bumps at the borders where it will be folded over?

Would it be feasible to shave off ALL of the sliding panel cover's foam and adhere the material directly to the panel, or would the adhesive bleed through (I have even considered re-using the existing stock material, but it would not exactly match the new material)?

How about the material covering the headliner shell itself? Must that also be shaved where it folds up and around the moonroof cavity rectangular opening? I'd think that UNshaved material would otherwise also add thickness where the trolley and slide mechanisms operate. Or is it ok to leave that material 'as is'?

Finally, I understand that the material on the underside of the exterior/uppermost moonroof can be installed 'as is' (1/8 or 3/16 thick) over the existing orange "pad" without concern?

Thanks Henry - I've studied Frankie's site pretty closely, including his subsequent experience with failure of his new slider mechanisms because of material that was too thick. I really don't want to go down that road, thus all these questions. I wish I was in FL and could take the car to Bill at Headliner Express, but will need to rely on my local shop that is very good, but has limited experience with E31 jobs.

Thanks both!

I too have the same questions. I have finished the A & C pillars, the sunroof motor cover, and the very large headliner. It came out OK. Not great, but OK. My main question now is how to shave the foam? I thought about a hair shaver, sander, or maybe a sickle ? ;^].

[smc850ci]

So I learned from several upholsterers that you can't "shave" the foam off of the headliner material. So what I did was go to a fabric store and found something that would go with the headliner material I have. It has a pattern on it because there was no way I could find a perfect match. It looks good, and besides, only I see it so WTH!
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[Kimolaoha]

So I learned from several upholsterers that you can't "shave" the foam off of the headliner material. So what I did was go to a fabric store and found something that would go with the headliner material I have. It has a pattern on it because there was no way I could find a perfect match. It looks good, and besides, only I see it so WTH!

My findings were consistent with yours. Shaving the foam was not recommended as - even if it could be done --it would likely cause other aesthetic issues (puckering, glue bleed-through, etc.). Having noted the amount of "loft" present in my original panel, and all the other disincentivizing factors we all consider when dealing with these extremely finicky and difficult moonroof component tolerances, I simply took a calculated risk to proceed as my installer suggested and pull the 1/8" material as tight and as even as possible (rather than substitute materials for the panel covering). And yes, I've read and sweated over all the "don't do this" posts.

My reasoning was as follows:
1) My installer was not some hack who was working his first E31, and I trusted him. I had to book four months ago to get my slot with him.
2) I felt with my own hands the difference in thickness between the original panel covering and what we ended up with. I actually thought the latter was tighter and thinner where it mattered.
3) This car has been a garage queen all it's life, and visual inspection of the components showed them to be showroom new looking - not cracked, brittle, faded, half-dead.
4) I never use the moonroof anyway; in fact, I had the harness disconnected for several years so I wouldn't inadvertently operate it and and have a wad of loose fabric hanging from it before i was ready to do the full job. I thought this the second best option after the moonroof-delete options some of you have undertaken. (I am aware that the door key can still operate the roof but never use that either.)
5) As this car is not a daily driver, not using the moonroof is really not an issue.
6) The moonroof has always worked, and still works - it might work for a long long time with the 1/8" fabric before failing - it might fail the next time I were to try it. It will certainly work as long as I own the vehicle.
7) If and when I sell the car, the new owner will have a beautiful (and the guy did an incredible job) new headliner. They will be told about the potential moonroof issues (and every other issue with the vehicle) and can decide for themselves whether to forgo its use, or disconnect it, or pull the panel and modify it with different material, or redo the whole job, or just use the hell out of it and roll the dice.

For my part. I'm happy I finally got this done. My only real regret is having made such a PITA of it with my installer. He basically said "Hey man, I got this." And he did - at least for what I wanted.
Thanks all for your guidance. I'm glad to have finally taken care of this, as it is literally the only major thing that was wrong with this car.

PS - The primary clip on one of the C-pillar covers broke (or was already broken) on removal, and they are NLA and crazy-expensive in the used market. I found here in the forum, and suggested to my installer, Roger's (and others') method of drilling a small hole through the broken stub and pulling a zip tie through the courtesy light hole to tighten it down to the pillar. Worked like a charm!