Curious: what do you all think about new BMWs? (F90, etc)

[98OrientBlue]

At one time, my 98 540 was the "ultimate driving machine". There was no M5 of that year... I probably would have bought that instead of the one I have. I had no idea about how complicated it was mechanically, and until about 10 years ago, thanks to forums like this, I had never even changed my own oil.

The new models are very pretty, and very very fast. However, looking in those engine bays, knowing what I now know about how these machines work, I can't imagine buying one. I'm quite glad that I'm pre-VANOS, let alone bi-turbo, and all the other stuff in these modern wonders.

I'm quite happy that my ancient machine is still running and still puts a smile on my face, especially with the 6sp on a twisty country road.

What's your opinion? Are the modern BMWs just too complicated for their own good, especially as they age?

[Iamthebull]

I feel the same way, just always love the older BMW's.

Side note, hope you can make it to Bimmerfest this weekend.

[Oday0111]

At one time, my 98 540 was the "ultimate driving machine". There was no M5 of that year... I probably would have bought that instead of the one I have. I had no idea about how complicated it was mechanically, and until about 10 years ago, thanks to forums like this, I had never even changed my own oil.

The new models are very pretty, and very very fast. However, looking in those engine bays, knowing what I now know about how these machines work, I can't imagine buying one. I'm quite glad that I'm pre-VANOS, let alone bi-turbo, and all the other stuff in these modern wonders.

I'm quite happy that my ancient machine is still running and still puts a smile on my face, especially with the 6sp on a twisty country road.

What's your opinion? Are the modern BMWs just too complicated for their own good, especially as they age?

I think Bmw really changed hard after the e46, e39, e38. It's so dramatic. bmw is continuing down this path of marketing and poorer build quality with newer cars. Just look at the badges for the cars. They have no more coralation anymore to the actual liters. Now given the e39 540i is a 4.4 liter but I'll give bmw this one just because the e39 is so great lol and it's not far off unlike some of the newer 540s and 640s being straight 6s instead of v8s and the v8s being the 550s and the 650s. I think it's lame but that's just the start.

I really like to look at the 6 series as a good example. They brought it back in the mid 2000s from the original e24 from the 80s

The new 6 series styling (we all know who's responsible) along with the preventful engine starting electronics that bmw put in, with the engines equipped just is disappointing to me. Especially the way the sloppy round future look they were trying to go for at the time is just dream crushing.

Some will say that the cars look better in person along with the 5 series and 7 but honestly it's not bmw styling in my opinion. It's styling ment for a different company, not bmw.

That boxy, sleek, perfect perporstions, nice, suddle, German look, along with N/A engines making perfect power for the chassis is the bmw I know.

And I hate to say it but Bmw, with the newer cars, are just going in circles because they are so stuck on this stupid look along with slapping everything with turbos even tho they can and made the McLaren F1 engine which was N/A.

Have you seen the new Suvs and the new 7 series Grill. Omg why so large. That's another thing. Luxury over motorsport.

They spend more time marketing and designing the cars towards audiences that are on the other side.

I feel like it's kinda of a staffing changed.

They have gotten new people, new brains, meaning new ideas and creativity. But I think Bmw didn't hire them for the same purpose tho. The people who made the 70s 80s and 90s early 2000s bmws had different tasks in that day of age where technology was different and the world was too.

The new bmw team, if they even did get a new team, look for different goals in there cars such as luxury, economic, Yada Yada....

And I think this is. Only the beginning. The newer electric cars (i3, i8) are the new future. Eventually bmws won't even run on GAs only electric. Will start to loose rwd through time to fwd and awd. Finally bmw will be know by the next generation of people as the, more efficient luxury super boat rather then the nimble, sporty, comfortable, sedans that we all wish they could just remake instead of keep redesigning.

It would be cool if bmw would just litterly remake 1 to 1 the E30 m3 or the E31 850s or hell a true m8 E31. Maybe remake the M1 but more towards a consumer market.

I'm just tired of bmws getting more and more. Complicated and stupid just because they want more sales.

I could go. On for days about this topic




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[Oday0111]

I feel the same way, just always love the older BMW's.

Side note, hope you can make it to Bimmerfest this weekend.

I wish I didn't live in Indiana and had a 6 day a week job or I would go

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[amancuso]

I like them all, except for the F30 3 series, it drives like utter crap. Luckily the G20 is a HUGE improvement. I do think they have far too many models these days. The 2 series is a joy to drive. If you haven't driven one you should give it a try.

[Oday0111]

I like them all, except for the F30 3 series, it drives like utter crap. Luckily the G20 is a HUGE improvement. I do think they have far too many models these days. The 2 series is a joy to drive. If you haven't driven one you should give it a try.

The 2 series is a good acception from the modern line up I agree.

They almost have 1-10 with the suv line up (X Models) right now we have 1 to 8 I wouldn't be surprised to see them release X10 1150M Sport lol something crazy stupid and big

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[paul p]

The 2 series is a good acception from the modern line up I agree.

The only exception
Otherwise .... meh

Audi, Cadillac and Benz have easily topped design wise lately.
And we all know how handling across the product line became an afterthought.

The biggest disappointment is BMW no longer shipping manuals on most models. Anything with 4 doors, let alone a wagon, forget it.
There was a time not that long ago you could get a stick shift X5. Now?
Honda still offers the freaking Accord with a third pedal. If you can put up with pure FWD and the ridiculous bodywork, the sportier Civics are masterstrokes. Hell, they make the best driving minivan now that the Mazda is gone.
BMW couldn't make the base 3er a drivers car anymore with the last generation.
It's just ..... sad

[ctrout]

I don't like the new ones at all. My first BMW was a 1979 E21 320. I bought it in Germany when I got stationed there. It was a 4 speed manual, 2.0 liter straight six with a 4bbl carb! I loved it so much that I bought a 1981 320 with a 5 speed to park in the driveway right next to it. Since then I've had a 325ix E30, a 323is and 328i E36, an E31 850i, my current Z3, and now my E39 530i/5. When I got my 1999 328i E36, I had actually considered an E90 until I drove it. It felt dead to me with absolutely zero road feel. I was shopping for an M5 a few years ago and drove an E34, and E39, and an E60. The E60 was the worst of the three in my opinion. Again, no road feel, no manual transmission, overburdened with electronics. I'm going to try to keep my current E39 alive until I'm too old to drive anymore. Just 40-50 more years!

[JimLev]

Same here, keep the 540 until I croak or someone offers me a ridicules amount of $$$$ for it.

[98OrientBlue]

Agree with all the comments here.... especially the HUGE nostrils on the X7. WTH??

But seriously, how can one even think about servicing their own bi-turbo 700hp engine? What stupid $5 gasket waaaayyy down inside is going to fail in 10 years that requires 100 hrs of labor to get to will the hapless 2nd or 3rd owner be looking at in 10 years time?

I think I read somewhere that a Bugatti oil change is like $30k because... well whatever.

[dannyzabolotny]

Having worked on the newer twin-turbo V8's, I will say it's not an especially pleasant endeavor. It's still doable for the savvy enthusiast, provided they have ISTA and the latest copy of TIS, but it's not something you can do casually anymore, you've gotta be like a scientist when working on the newer engines. And diagnosing electrical issues is a huge pain, there are so many modules and so much wiring nowadays.

I don't really like anything newer than the E39... BMW more or less ceased to exist for me after that era of cars. The new "BMW" cars, if you can even call them BMW's, are just poorly built plastic junk marketed to the ignorant masses. Yeah, they're fast and efficient, but the soul is completely gone at this point. There's not a single naturally-aspirated BMW engine anymore, and very few that can still be bought with a manual.

[Aussie528iT]

BMW lost the plot re styling in the 2000s - Bangle anyone?
They haven't really recovered.
They don't understand understated elegance and the iron fist in the velvet glove approach.
They are too much "In your face" styling although the G30 looks OK but fastback X6s look like grasshoppers on stilts, very ungainly.
Then there's the technology.
Just because you can do it doesn't make it a good idea.
I think Boeing is slowly realising that.
A friend recently bought a new Honda Civic, despite the styling, and the "Lane keeping" function makes it more difficult to swerve to avoid stuff and auto braking assist when in traffic leaves too much space between cars and you end up going backwards in traffic as other drivers swap lanes into your space.
This seems to show that marketing and accountants are running the show rather than engineers.
I'll get off my soapbox now.

Regards from Downunder
RonR

[Nyc Dito]

At one time, my 98 540 was the "ultimate driving machine". There was no M5 of that year... I probably would have bought that instead of the one I have. I had no idea about how complicated it was mechanically, and until about 10 years ago, thanks to forums like this, I had never even changed my own oil.

The new models are very pretty, and very very fast. However, looking in those engine bays, knowing what I now know about how these machines work, I can't imagine buying one. I'm quite glad that I'm pre-VANOS, let alone bi-turbo, and all the other stuff in these modern wonders.

I'm quite happy that my ancient machine is still running and still puts a smile on my face, especially with the 6sp on a twisty country road.

What's your opinion? Are the modern BMWs just too complicated for their own good, especially as they age?

My brother gets a new BMW every time his lease is up. Usually has all the bells and whistles, M sport blah blah blah.. Very nice cars, all the cool gadgets yada yada yada. Every time I borrow them or drive them, I tend to love my "older" ones a bit more. They have more HP, more things to make you a "better" driver (or dumber if you ask me lol), better tech, better this, better that..but none feel as solid as my E39, E70 or former E38. When I decided to get a newer vehicle, I went for the E70 X5 because it still feels like a solid BMW. Steering feedback feels right, brakes feels great, not too much tech going on, classic styled interior before all the newer stuff was added. It still feels like a BMW "should" feel. Also, my E39 is so much quieter inside the cabin than what i've driven from the newer models.

And with all that being said I really like the F06 6 series, newer M5's or 550i's, The new X7 looks sweet with M trims, some models here and there of F15 X5's. And My wife will be getting a 4 series to replace her E90 since she loves all the tech, bells and whistles lol.

[TiesTorN]

garbage (build quality)

[14W]

So glad i found this thread. So i am not a technofobe but i don't like the way BMW is going either. I think they don't cater towards the drivers who want the ultimate dynamic driving experience but to rich families and flashy ppl instead. Check out the huge shiny grills and wheels on new models (and on every other car in that class) for example. I think they mimic what everybody else is doing. For interior example, almost every new car has this boring white gauges (or lcd) and interior buttons illumination now. And off course BMW had to get rid of it's staple orange and go to that Nissan color too. Although i like the interior design of most new models with the exeption of infotainment screens,which look like cheap tablet mounted in honda civic if you ask me.

I don't like the idea of twin turbo I4 in a sedan like that either. But again that's what all other manufacturers are doing so they gotta fo it too.

Regarding the design i love the classic look of E39 but can't decide if the F10 is better looking. Plus you can still get it with NA I6.

My e39 is getting kinda worn out (+220.000 miles) so I am really thinking either of buying a low mileage survival E39 or get F10 I6 for my next car.

[Obioban]

BMW has gone to crap, and after owning 17 of them (some new, some used) they don't really make anything I'm interested in anymore... or in the last 10-15 years.

To the post above me, the F10 is probably the worst driving car BMW has ever made. If you like your e39's driving experience, I have trouble thinking of a worse sedan to follow it up with.

The only exception for me is the i3 BEV-- old school BMW weight (<2800 lbs for a functional 4 seater), super stiff chassis, instant throttle response (gone in ICE BMWs since they went to turbos), 50:50 weight distro, rwd, very mechanically simple (gone in ICE BMWs post e46/e38/e39 era), quick enough to be fun without being so fast that you can't push it.

[14W]

BMW has gone to crap, and after owning 17 of them (some new, some used) they don't really make anything I'm interested in anymore... or in the last 10-15 years.

To the post above me, the F10 is probably the worst driving car BMW has ever made. If you like your e39's driving experience, I have trouble thinking of a worse sedan to follow it up with.

The only exception for me is the i3 BEV-- old school BMW weight (<2800 lbs for a functional 4 seater), super stiff chassis, instant throttle response (gone in ICE BMWs since they went to turbos), 50:50 weight distro, rwd, very mechanically simple (gone in ICE BMWs post e46/e38/e39 era), quick enough to be fun without being so fast that you can't push it.

Really? Lol now i gotta find myself a new dream car or stick with the E39. Yeah i never drove the F10 i just like the looks and the interior. But yeah i really LOVE how the e39 drives. I like the hydraulic steering ,stiff shocks and the feeling of connetiveness with the road. The only thing that makes me consider a newer model is safety. I don't trust the safety of E39 if honest ,especially now, with like 25yrs old airbags. I bet that if you crash e39 in a new model you are dead.

EDIT: sry for editing the last sentences, i accidentally clicked the post button too early

[Nyc Dito]

My e39 is getting kinda worn out (+220.000 miles)

You mean just broken in!

I like how the E39 holds up against most modern cars. Sure we are ALL E39 fans but some have tried/owned/driven other cars and newer BMW's and always will talk back about how solid an E39 is compared. The newer models of course have some nice appeal but I think for a true drivers experience its hard to beat these E39's.

[Obioban]

Really? Lol now i gotta find myself a new dream car or stick with the E39. Yeah i never drove the F10 i just like the looks and the interior. But yeah i really LOVE how the e39 drives. I like the hydraulic steering ,stiff shocks and the feeling of connetiveness with the road. The only thing that makes me consider a newer model is safety. I don't trust the safety of E39 if honest ,especially now, with like 25yrs old airbags. I bet that if you crash e39 in a new model you are dead.

EDIT: sry for editing the last sentences, i accidentally clicked the post button too early

The car you're in doesn't care if the car it hits is new or old-- just how much it weighs and how high the bumper is.

You could replace the airbag, if you're concerned about them-- certainly cheaper than buying a new car. The front airbags you maybe can get replaced for free, as there was a recall on them last year-- I ended up getting the front airbags replaced on my M3 coupe, M3 wagon, and M5 under that. Only my e39 530i didn't get free replacements.

Unless you have significant chassis rust, the crumple zones/passenger cell shouldn't be any less safe today than they were when the car was new. Certainly cars today are safer, but much of that is autopilot safety (lane departure warnings, automatic braking, etc) and pedestrian safety (great, sure, but not for you). Buy the era of the e39, most of passive safety (crumple zone, airbags, etc) were pretty well figured out.

You should test drive an F10. I suspect you won't want one anymore, after.

[14W]

The car you're in doesn't care if the car it hits is new or old-- just how much it weighs and how high the bumper is.

You could replace the airbag, if you're concerned about them-- certainly cheaper than buying a new car. The front airbags you maybe can get replaced for free, as there was a recall on them last year-- I ended up getting the front airbags replaced on my M3 coupe, M3 wagon, and M5 under that. Only my e39 530i didn't get free replacements.

Unless you have significant chassis rust, the crumple zones/passenger cell shouldn't be any less safe today than they were when the car was new. Certainly cars today are safer, but much of that is autopilot safety (lane departure warnings, automatic braking, etc) and pedestrian safety (great, sure, but not for you). Buy the era of the e39, most of passive safety (crumple zone, airbags, etc) were pretty well figured out.

You should test drive an F10. I suspect you won't want one anymore, after.

Tnx ,i didn't know you can get new airbags for E39. I once searched for them on ebay, i didn't find any brand new ones ,so i figured they don't make them anymore and didn't even bother to call the dealership to check it out. But yeah,then, i can really see myself buying a nice, post 98 E39 again. The reason why i want post 98 is bcs they reinforced the fire-wall then ,and added the A-pillar airbags and the rear ones. My 97 has only 4 airbags ,and it scored 3 stars ,but post 98 had better rating i think

[98OrientBlue]

funny... that was my concern too. i'm getting a new m-sport steering wheel and airbag at the dealer. had to be ordered from Germany. pricey, but less than a new car. I think the airbag recall only went back to 2002.

[msvphoto]

Very timely thread. My 540iT is sitting in the driveway with failed TCGs awaiting my decision to fix or replace. I have driven Audis pretty much exclusively since 1988 but my first car was a BMW (1970 1600) and I have owned three other 2002s and a 2800CS back in the late 1970s and 1980s. Early BMWs were what I learned how to work on cars and what I learned to drive with. First love. That is why we looked for an e39 to replace my wife's totaled Volvo S40 in 2016 and wound up with the 540iT.

Since that time we bought her a used 2015 VW eGolf which is perhaps my favorite car ever (and I have owned around 50 including a couple of 911s, bunches of Audis, etc.). The i3 makes me want to puke, but the i8 has some appeal. I like the 1 and 2 series cars, but those are about it in recent BMWs. I am not enthused by the I4 turbo, seems BMW did an even worse job than VAG with that concept. VAG had a bullet proof engine in the 1.8T in the late 1990s - early 2000s and had to destroy it by going to less than reliable chain drive in the 2.0T It took a decade for them to sort that out and get the 2.0T reasonably reliable over the long haul like the 1.8T was. They blew it even more with moving timing chains to the back of the engine because they "would never fail" (yeah right...ask a B6 S4 owner).

So, here I am at a crossroads. I really don't want another car payment. We have one too many for the eGolf, but that car is worth its weight in gold to us. My favorite two sedan marques are Audi and BMW and I am not sure I like any of the newer ones from either maker enough to sell my 1983 Audi UrQ to fund replacement. The 540iT checks pretty much all the boxes for me (fuel economy aside). A friend is selling a 2002 S6 Avant w/six speed conversion which has some appeal but not enough to let the UrQ go for.

Right now I am driving my "Cockroach" 1986 4000 quattro (I love those cars, my first Audi was a new one and I have owned three more since) but it is less than ideal for long road trips in the current condition.

That brings be back to the 540iT. Mentally I am 100% on board with doing the TCG job along with the while I'm there stuff. Physically I have concerns because of chronic spine issues that will limit me to about 4 hours of wrenching at a time, so lots of weekends and a few vacation days. My amazing wife did get me a QuickJack last year for a promotion gift (bless her) which helps a lot. Since buying the car I have done all the PS hoses, rear air springs, new tires, and just did control arms and thrust arms a couple weeks before the TCG failure. It was a one owner car with good maintenance history when I bought it and it is mostly rust free and clean. I will more than likely fix it and keep it.

If there were a newer BMW or Audi that excited me enough to sell the UrQ to buy I would lean towards selling the 540iT as-is cheap (as in practically give it away) but in my searching (both soul and auto shopping) nothing excites me enough to make it an easy decision. The UrQ is a seldom driven garage queen and perhaps should be sold, but I am trying to keep that a separate decision from fixing the 540iT.

[Obioban]

^egolf is 650+ lbs heavier than the i3 BEV!

[Iamthebull]

My e39 is getting kinda worn out (+220.000 miles) so I am really thinking either of buying a low mileage survival E39 or get F10 I6 for my next car.

I have 213k on my e39 and I plan on maintaining it as long as possible, plus getting a spare motor and build it up and swap in maybe next year. Sure there are things to replace, gaskets, hoses, etc, but overall if the vehicle is well maintained, then why get rid of it?

Plus motor swap options exist.

I'd almost like to have an N54/N55 in my e39 with a single turbo...almost.

[msvphoto]

^egolf is 650+ lbs heavier than the i3 BEV!

Actually a little less than 650+, 592 pounds per published specs non Rex, 327 pounds w/Rex (comparing 2015 to 2015 model years). The eGolf weighs about the same as a 2019 Golf R (awd) so it is not a heavy car by today's standards.

The i3 is a technological masterpiece but I personally don't like the way they look.