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Hey I was just looking at some eccentric bolts for minor front strut camber alignments.
Has anyone ever run these on an E36?
I know, the two other bolts are "Flat" The way the tube mounts to the hub, but surely you could get a few degree's
out of it without too much issue no?
This would be for the front upper strut bolt, I suspect the lower strut tabs will bend accordingly given this is only a few degrees of adjustment, and there is some distance between them. It may require a pair of collars. Is this a horrible idea?
Last edited by FiberFast; 05-21-2019 at 08:57 PM.
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Last edited by FiberFast; 05-21-2019 at 11:58 PM.
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Basically Replace bolts (5) With an M10 (12mm cam) eccentric bolt, and bolts (3) with longer M12 bolts and leveling washers.
Something like this.
Kit.jpg
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The Leveling washers would need to go on the backside of the strut tube mounts so as not to throw off the geometry. It would work much better between the strut mount and spindle hub, but you would be starting at several degrees negative camber as the washers are 7.7-8.2mm thick. I dont even know how much cam is possible with a 12-10mm concentric but it looks like about +/- 3degrees is fairly standard for this size and type of eccentric bolt. If I am not mistaken the strut had ample clearance on the hole for the eccentric bolt to move up and down. At least on the Mehle, oe, and Koni struts I have used. Trying to think of a better solution for those lower bolts.
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You know, maybe just a pair of thin urethane or plastic washers between the strut and spindle would get the job done... Really would not mind some advice from someone with more experience than me.
Last edited by FiberFast; 05-21-2019 at 10:45 PM.
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Fundamentally our strut attachment is different, and does not lend itself to eccentric bolts for camber adjustment.Originally Posted by FiberFast
The only accepted approach that I am aware of is replacing the two #3 (realoem image) bolts at the bottom of the strut with slightly longer bolts (grade 10.9) adding a washer (grade 10.9) between the strut ‘ears’ and the spindle ‘tabs’s, closing the space between the top of the tire and the strut casing.
On 1995M3 and non-‘M’ spindles there is some space available, however clearance on 1996+M3 spindles (redesigned for more KPI) space is already close.
https://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-4...er-motorsport/
Anything less than grade 10.9 steel material for the washers will get pounded out in short order.
Then there is this OE “Crash Bolt” discussion
https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...rrection-bolts
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Last edited by bluptgm3; 05-22-2019 at 02:27 PM.
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Oh shit, I thought those spacers Turner was selling went between the upper strut mount and spring perch (Which is also an interesting way to change the camber alignment) So in their case there is no need to use an eccentric bolt as they are only trying to add camber (I think) and not control caster (That's normal not hating) for stock spindles. Since you already know I have 96+ M3 spindles, and apparently Turner (Who I would trust) seems to think its ok to run these at a slight angle, you think I could just run the eccentric bolt up top and just torque the lowers to spec? I would be most comfortable with that I think. Fair point on the washer brutality, that spot gets hit pretty hard.
Last edited by FiberFast; 05-22-2019 at 12:36 AM.
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Those work on the rear but not the front.
Attn. NEWBIES: Use the search feature, 98% has already been discussed.
Click the search button, select "search single content type", select the "e36 sub forum" specifically, try the "search titles" then try the "search entire posts".
Driver
Interestingly I had similar (07119905853) a couple of years back for my M3... total fail.
The cam bolts are listed for the front ("fit bolt"), I purchased some but there's absolutely 0% chance they can work. I have no idea why BMW lists them as they do.
My alignment guy and I couldn't even theorise how they might work because the strut is locked in between the top and bottom mounts. They might provide a sung(er) fit if you have adjustable top mounts.
As above, the only way to adjust camber on the stock suspension is to use shims on the bottom two bolts (and 5mm longer HT bolts).
'96 M3, S50B32, 6MT
+ good stuff
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The BMW crash bolts are just skinnier #5 bolts in the diagram. Friction holds them in place. I always thought an eccentric would be better and don’t know why BMW would not offer one. Thicker or double washers for the #3 bolts are a popular cheap trick to gain a little. No one seems to slot the top of the tower though I have done that on other cars. The tower is somewhat crack prone. Dinan sells an adapter plate that goes underneath the tower and offers alternative mounting holes and others copied it and sold it for less. It’s fixed but fairly inexpensive.
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This would only change the incident angle of the strut mount to strut tower, would not change inclination of the strut.
The point contact this would create on the strut tower sheet metal would not be good for the tower.
I have no purview of what car you drive from my phone, other that what has been shared contextually.
Wheel spacers can be added to gain space at top of tire, tire to strut clearance, when adding camber shims.
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Last edited by bluptgm3; 05-22-2019 at 02:17 PM.
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So in my case the I have the M3 front spindles. This has given me some negative camber, its not too bad and I want some negative camber but I would also like to be able to dial it back a little as well as make adjustments so the camber is equal. I already have rear adjustable trailing arms, so I am good there. Rather than buy a not too expensive upper camber plate, I think I may experiment with a custom bolt. The washers on the #3 bolt will only add more negative camber, I want to go the other way. Thanks for all the comments and information.
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Which model year? 1995M3 or 1996+M3? They are different.
https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...E36-M3-spindle
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It seems like the OP put 96+ M3 spindles on his 95 with no other changes and now has too much negative camber and wants to reduce it without buying all the matching 96+ suspension parts. Skinnier #5 bolts moved inwards before being locked down may get part of a degree less negative.
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I think when BimmerWorld was promoting this configuration - Meyle HD FLCAs + 1995M3 Offset FLCA Bushings with 1996+M3 Spindles…(and selling that kit)…they assumed the user had camber/caster plates in lieu of stock Guide Supports/strut mounts.
Going to the 1996+M3 Guide Supports/strut mounts moves the centerline of the strut outboard reducing camber.
Near as I can tell caster within the two MY GSs is the same.
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Last edited by bluptgm3; 05-22-2019 at 04:34 PM.
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Part #11 (M3 variant) will reduce my negative camber by 1 Degree if I understand you correctly.
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The realoem image shown is for the non-“M” Guide Supports.
For the “M” there are two variants- The 1995M3 GS which adds caster and the 1996+M3 GS which adds caster and decreases camber (to match added camber in the Spindle.)
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I would need parts #1, #15, & #16?
Thank you, you both have been extremely helpful. It sounds like I want to use the 96+ Guide Supports (Rebuild my struts?) to reduce the camber (more positive camber) with my 96+ spindles. Do the M3 guide supports work on 325is struts?
Also still considering this upper eccentric bolt as possibly a much more friendly way to adjust camber. You may need to loosen the lower bolts a turn each when adjusting the eccentric bolt, other than that and a longer grade 10.9 m12x30mm bolt and 0.05" thick virgin copper compression washers, it should work perfectly. You know, this is allot easier to adjust than the strut tower variant as it requires the technicians (Prolly you) to get up over the hood instead of just reaching over and turning the eccentric bolt that would be just above head level if you have it on a rack... This is not the worst idea I have come up with is all I am saying lol.
Last edited by FiberFast; 05-22-2019 at 06:02 PM.
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This is a 10mm eccentric stud I designed that would accomplish the task. Would be used with 12mm locating washers.
Its an 8mm adjustment head, with a 10mm thread and a 12mm cam. Still have the two lower M12 bolts so I would not be too concerned about this one being reduced to an M10.
Eccentric Stud1.jpg
Eccentric Stud2.jpg
Eccentric Stud3.jpg
Thoughts? It seems like the adjustment bolts shown are 10mm. I don't see a safety concern there. Now as far as "How will this work?" In theory, there is some distance (4-6") between bolt position #5 and bolt position #3. I think you could fairly easily dial +/- 2 degrees camber with this eccentric stud fairly easily... However it may be impossibly to get them to 0. +1-2 degrees or -1-2 degrees is easy, but the top and bottom of the eccentric cam will want to jam out on the #3 bolt strut holes (On the strut mount housing). So it absolutely will matter which way this eccentric stud is installed. For negative camber install with the cam lobe left, for positive camber it would be lobe right. What the BMW "alignment bolt" does, is a poor job of mimicking a properly designed eccentric bolt/stud. The copper washers are for the #3 10.9 bolts and are very soft. They can be crushed several times and have extremely good retention when seated, but would need to be replaced periodically. This it a much better solution that wont strip your threads. That is basically the concept, bend the copper washer a little so the strut tower does not have to give as much. 2 degrees to those #3 bolts cant be more that 0.03" So these are fairly small amounts of movement/washer crush/strut flex.
Last edited by FiberFast; 05-22-2019 at 10:02 PM.
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