Nav Radio Upgrade (with Bluetooth Streaming)

[Thresher]

Brian,

Congrats on the Siemens radio installation!

So, adapter cable '785 did not work to retain cassette functions? If not, then its black aux-side plug is just taking up space on your radio which could be put to use. Why not move the factory aux-in back to the AUX channel (nav will display AUX when selected) and leave the CD input open (for later use or as a second aux-in)? Of course if you re-installed all the trunk audio components, that might not be practical anymore.

I'd like to see a picture of an active HD radio station. It should display all sorts of ID3 info similar to a satellite radio station, with graphics and other data.

Your nav screenshot shows the green TCU connection light illuminated. Is your BlueBus connected? If so, it's great to see it mimicking factory TCU functions. I'm eager to hear how BlueBus telephony works (the reviews I've seen focus exclusively on BT streaming, ignoring telephone).

I see you opted for aluminum/foil tape to seal the radio, as I did. For others doing this: I don't think that side needs to be sealed particularly tight (with tape) since the internal circuits need to breathe (note the top is vented). It should be just tight enough to keep mice out!

The '785 adapter cable is correctly wired to bring the tape signals to the radio. Missing, I believe, is the capability within the radio to process the tape signals. The wiring diagram I saw for the radio of a 2010 E83 shows that the right connector is X13649 and pins #1, #2, #7 and #8 are unused. These are the same pins that are used on the BM53 for the tape signals, and the wiring diagram for the E39/E46 show these pins as used. Also, on the BM53 radio cover, there is a nice little bit of wording from the Dolby folks about their technology that is incorporated in the BM53. I did not see any similar stamping on the case for the Siemens radio. It appears that the Siemens radio has now eliminated the tape support. I also think the Siemens radio is remembering there was a CD interface; separate from the CD changer. I will have to cycle the Mode button again and observe it more carefully. Thought I saw a message about no CD present...

The wiring is interesting...

On the BM53 and Siemens CID radio, there are 12-pin connectors. If you want to continue to use the other capabilities (e.g., tape for BM53 and NAV audio for both) from your 10-pin connector, then you need an adapter. I decided to opt for adapter 61-12-6-924-785. That converts between two 10-pin connectors to the two 12-pin connectors found on the BM53 and Siemens CID. The adapter cable will take the NAV feed from the right side 10 pin connector (pin #10: NAV + and pin #5 NAV ground from X18805) and map them to the right side 12-pin connector at pin #5 for NAV Audio ground and pin #11 NAV audio + (X13649). The left side of the 12-pin connectors on BM53 radio (X13648/X13598/X13321) also has a TV input on pin #11 for TV + and pin #12 for TV ground. That isn't present on the right-side 10-pin connector of the C43 radio. The adapter cable jumpers the TV and NAV inputs located on each of the 12-pin connectors. The right-side connector on the adapter cable does not have wires at pins #3, #4, and #10. From AUX-IN kit 82-11-0-149-390 I removed the wires from the connector it came with and then re-pinned them into the adapter cable.

If you don't have a NAV or TV then I don't think an adapter cable would be necessary unless there is a need to route the phone signal into the radio. I know you thought that wasn't the case, and you may be right. The wiring diagrams for the C43 radio show the left-side 10-pin connector having a phone input at pins #3 and #8; but my car didn't have a cable connected to that part of the radio. The right side of the 10-pin connector doesn't have a phone input on it, and I had no problem with the TCU that I used to have in the car. So, the purpose of the telephone input on the left-side 10-pin connector of the C43 radio and the telephone input on the right-side 12-pin connector of the BM53 and Siemens radio is a mystery to me.

I haven't seen any graphics on the new radio. Maybe I will; my car has been sitting in my garage while I have been working on it, and it is just now ready to be driven again now that everything is re-assembled. There is a radio station near me that has three HD channels. Here is some eye candy:

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Yes, BlueBus is installed. I was able to place a phone call and it worked fine. There is more I want to check out. Ted already did the hardwork of figuring out the basics for TCU emulation. I am looking forward to seeing a future firmware update for BlueBus be able to access my phone directory. All of the menu items behind the "Telephone" menu option on the main menu seem to be non-operative at this point. Still, I am excited to have some newer technology in my car. I am not an audio geek, but the sound I do hear sounds great to me.

[Frankie]

The '785 adapter cable is correctly wired to bring the tape signals to the radio. Missing, I believe, is the capability within the radio to process the tape signals....It appears that the Siemens radio has now eliminated the tape support.

You're probably right. Since the Siemens has no onboard tape player but a CD player instead, it makes sense.

I also think the Siemens radio is remembering there was a CD interface; separate from the CD changer.

Yes. It flashes NO DISC when toggling thru the monitor's MODE button. Of course, it responds normally to the CD changer input.

I've considered extending the Siemens' onboard CD player (which is mp3-capable, I think) up to the in-dash monitor, to replace its onboard cassette tape. But this would involve a considerable amount of work inside the monitor, including plastic fabrication.

If you want to continue to use the other capabilities (e.g., tape for BM53 and NAV audio for both)..., then you need an adapter....61-12-6-924-785

Ya know, I completely forgot about spoken nav directions, since I rarely use 'em. I just tested this in my car. After selecting a nav route and enabling "Directions", I hear a few seconds of static but otherwise nothing.

It's strange that phone audio bypasses the radio and yet nav audio does not. Wired in this manner, it would seem that the radio needs to be ON in order to hear spoken nav directions. But apparently not. The spoken directions go thru the radio, even with radio OFF! The radio must be enabled somehow by a bus signal to utilize its speakers (instead of the voice coil speakers, as when using telephone audio). Wow.

So, the purpose of the telephone input...of the BM53 and Siemens radio is a mystery to me.

Me too.

I haven't seen any [HD radio] graphics on the new radio.

This is disappointing. From my reading of the features of HD radio, it should present similar to satellite radio with complete ID3 tags. Still, it's cool that the Siemens has this feature.

I am looking forward to seeing a future firmware update for BlueBus be able to access my phone directory. All of the menu items behind the "Telephone" menu option on the main menu seem to be non-operative at this point.

This is news. I assumed BlueBus could pair your directory and display the Telephone screens. So far then, it doesn't fully emulate a TCU.

Nevertheless, BlueBus looks like it's going to be a wonderful option for older BMWs as features come online. Its developer deserves much credit for working apparently single-handedly to bring this to market while working thru the inevitable bugs to make it compatible with such a wide variety of OEM equipment.

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I will update my DIY with your findings regarding cassette and nav audio. Thanks!

[Thresher]

This is disappointing. From my reading of the features of HD radio, it should present similar to satellite radio with complete ID3 tags. Still, it's cool that the Siemens has this feature.

I wasn't aware of this, but just found information on the hdradio web site about the station logo service and the artist experience image service / cover art service. Lots of hills and valleys around San Diego tend to interfere with HD radio service. I know HD radio drops in and out quite a bit with the Alpine radio in my E36. I will have to drive around more and see how the radio behaves. While the HD station near me may not transmit graphics, there may be other stations that do.

[Thresher]

I'd like to see a picture of an active HD radio station. It should display all sorts of ID3 info similar to a satellite radio station, with graphics and other data.

Still not seeing graphics after driving around today. Purely speculation on my part, but lack of graphics could be a limitation of either the IBus messages sent to the display, or a limitation of the display for interpreting IBus messages with graphics.

I did notice a feature that I don't think has been mentioned (or I missed it...). In FM radio mode, manually tune to a known HD station. Save the station to one of your presets, say "1" in the normal way. With that station active (as indicated by the little check mark on the display), and selected (as indicated by the rectangle around the preset). Press and hold the right dial button for a few seconds. If the radio station is setup to broadcast a callsign or similar text, that text will replace the frequency in the list of presets. This might be useful... some radio stations here in San Diego are broadcasting their callsign. Some appear to be broadcasting something other than a callsign. If you tend to mentally map your presets to certain frequencies, and your location station is broadcasting a callsign but you normally hear the station use a slogan (e.g., "San Diego's best music, 94.1"), then you may not necessarily want to see the callsign/text by the preset. In the case of 94.1, the callsign is KMYI but the text broadcasted and picked up is "STAR". This will certainly be a personal preference.

[Frankie]

...If the radio station is setup to broadcast a callsign or similar text, that text will replace the frequency in the list of presets..

It sounds like you're talking about the RDS feature, which has been available on standard FM broadcasts for some time now. This occurs on my non-HD Siemens radio too and is activated from the INFO screen on your monitor. It's also configurable with NavCoder (see Code > Radio dialog).

I mention this feature of the Siemens radio in a supplement to my DIY linked as "Siemens CID Radio Prep".

[DIEGOBMW]

Hey Frankie, thanks for all your research and trial and error. I have just picked up a Siemens CID radio and have done the mods to it. Also picked up a Bluetooth dongle, 61-12-6-913-957 adapter, 61-12-6-913-955 adapter, and 61-12-6-924-785 adapter so i think I am set to do the install. My question is, will I retain my CD changer with the 785 adapter or am I understanding this wrong?

[Thresher]

My question is, will I retain my CD changer with the 785 adapter or am I understanding this wrong?

You will be able to retain your CD changer. The '785 cable connects two 10-pin connectors used with the C43 radio to the two 12-pin connectors used on the BM53/Siemens CID radio. Analog CD changer signals are found on left 10-pin connector. I have DSP and use the coaxial cable. Thus, on my car, there isn't a connector that was wired up to the left side 10-pin connector on my C43 radio. With my Siemens CID radio installation, the 10-pin connector for the left side is not used. Because I have DSP, I suspect my car never received the harness portion to support analog CD changer signals. On the Siemens CID radio, the left-side 12-pin connector is used because if you study the '785 cable, you will see some of the wires from the right-side 12-pin connector are jumpered over to the left-side.

If you do not have DSP, then I suspect that on your C43 radio you will have a connector on the left-side 10-pin connector. That will mate with one end of the '785 cable. From memory, on the '785 cable, one of the 10-pin connectors has 4 wires and the other has 6 wires. The one with the four wires is used for the left side 10-pin connector and the other for the right-side 10-pin connector. The 10-pin connectors do not appear to be keyed, so study them carefully before hooking everything up. I recommend using a small section of 3/4" heat shrink tube around the 10-pin connections as they do not lock in place but rather are press fit. Use a heat gun only after you have tested the radio and are satisfied with it. HD has a plumber's style heat shield for about $15; I used that to protect the rest of the wiring when I used the heat gun.

Hope that helps! I am happy with my Siemens CID radio installation.

[DIEGOBMW]

That definitely helps! I do have dsp so I have the coax cable. All I'm waiting on is my interphase so I can use Navcoder.

On a side note...don't all facelift E38s have DSP?? I've never seen one without.

[Frankie]

...will I retain my CD changer with the 785 adapter...?

Cable '785 is only needed if you want to retain nav audio on your Seimens radio. Otherwise it's useless. It has nothing to do with CD changer audio on your nav equipped DSP car.

(Thresher discovered it also adapts cassette tape audio, but only with the BM53, not Seimens.)

For your CD changer, you have the option of retaining the digital interface or using analog cable '718 instead. Cable '718 can be used in conjunction with cable '785 by ignoring the superfluous white plug of cable '785.

I assume your BT streaming dongle has a black plug (for AUX channel). So, use your streamer with cable '785 by swapping its pins from its black connector into the corresponding pins on cable '785 (which are vacant).

TIP: To avoid the expense of cable '785 yet retain nav audio, simply jumper the two needed pins from the 10-pin plug of the stock radio harness into your streamer's black plug.

[DIEGOBMW]

Ok guys I'm stumped. I've installed the CID radio, bluetooth dongle and antenna adapter. Loaded up Navcoder and this is what I keep getting"

IMG_20200718_130436.jpg

The radio works fine but the bluetooth is not reconized at all. The dongle blue light just flashes but I can't connect to it and the radio does not show it. It's a white plug dongle so It's on the cd channel but all I get is NO DISC.

[peacoben]

Did you pick up an Avant4? Looking for some feedback on it.

[Frankie]

The radio works fine but the bluetooth is not reconized at all...It's a white plug dongle so It's on the cd channel but all I get is NO DISC.

Looks like two different problems here:

1. NavCoder can't code your nav,
2. Bluetooth dongle isn't recognized by the radio.

1) In my experience, timeout errors by NavCoder indicate that it cannot fully communicate with the device. A dead end. No fix is available. So it's time to experiment.

I'd start by unplugging the BT dongle from the radio, then try to code your nav. Then try to code the new radio. If not, swap your old radio back in temporarily and attempt to code it, as a reference point. Let us know the results.

2) There's a possibility that the CD changer input may not be recognized without a i-bus trigger signal from the CD changer power plug (pin 3, yellow wire). Although my write-up says audio inputs are all that's needed on that side, I could be wrong. (It would be strange that BT streamers are sold for that channel if they don't actually work there.) I can't image you're the first person to try this, but we may be in uncharted territory.

The NO DISC message indicates there is no disc in the onboard disc player (since it was removed for this installation). Ignore it.

Swap the BT dongle over to the AUX side by removing the white cover and re-pinning the black 12-pin plug inside for the AUX channel (see diagram A in my DIY). Temporarily plug into the AUX channel using only the 12-pin plug and try it. If successful, purchase a black cover plug to secure the connection or get a dongle for the AUX side.

It is frustrating in the case of our E38's to perform these experiments since the radio is so hard to access. When I was trying to install a New Gen radio, I had to go back in 5-6 times before I was satisfied. So be patient, and we all may learn from your case!

[Frankie]

I have revised details regarding the use of both the CD and aux inputs based on user experience. I hope this revision makes it as technically accurate as possible.

• Nav Radio Upgrade

[Someguy123456789]

Excellent write-up Frankie!

Curious if this Siemens unit retrofit would work in the E46 chassis considering the system utilizes the same widescreen monitor 🤔

[Btkeenan]

@Frankie thanks for the writeup. Wanting to do the Siemens HD CID swap since I frequently listen to the radio when I am not using Spotify on my BlueBus. I have setup alerts for the various pn's listed in your DIY article on ebay/craigslist/offerup but was wondering if you had an alternative place to look for them. Seems like sourcing one that does not have a core charge has become difficult.

[Frankie]

...Wanting to do the Siemens HD CID swap...ebay/craigslist/offerup...wondering if you had an alternative place...

eBay is by far the best place and my source for locating used parts like Siemens CID radios. However, you will be limited by your desire for HD radio (not many out there). Craigslist is likely a waste of time. I've never used OfferUp, but with a focus on local sellers, you'd be lottery-like lucky to find something this specific.

Although I'm glad to see eBay move away from PayPal, their new payment policies are demanding. As a result, I haven't used them in a while (not keen on divulging all my personal data).

[Btkeenan]

eBay is by far the best place and the only source I use for locating used parts like a Siemens CID radio. However, you will be limited by your desire for HD radio (not many out there).

Thanks yea that’s what I figured. Some of the listings have the IBOC pn’s in the listing which throws the search off. I’ve also been scouting the vins of x3/z3s at the local pick your parts to see if they came with the hd radio option

[Thresher]

+1 for Ebay. That is where I sourced my Siemens CID radio w/ HD radio support. Some Ebay auto parts recyclers don't do the best job of posting BMW part #s. You may need to do a more generic search for a radio from an X3/E83, and then look at pictures of the radio shown to see the radio part number. If in doubt, don't hesitate to send a message to the Ebay seller asking them to confirm a part #.

[Btkeenan]

+1 for Ebay. That is where I sourced my Siemens CID radio w/ HD radio support. Some Ebay auto parts recyclers don't do the best job of posting BMW part #s. You may need to do a more generic search for a radio from an X3/E83, and then look at pictures of the radio shown to see the radio part number. If in doubt, don't hesitate to send a message to the Ebay seller asking them to confirm a part #.

Thanks. Yea I did a deep dive on all the x3 and z3 units on eBay the other day checking the pn’s on the photos to Frankie’s list. No dice unfortunately.