Solution for H&R Sport Spring too low - rear

[Genes1s]

For the rear, I have put 10mm Spring Pad on the top and I still feel that it is too low for my taste.
DSC_0057.jpgDSC_0058.jpgDSC_0059.jpg

The front is perfect IMO.

DSC_0060.jpg

For the rear, I would like it to be 0.4-0.5" higher, which is about 0.375" lower than the OE stock setup. The thickest spring pad available is 15mm, which Is not enough to get the ride height I wanted. What is my options here:

1. Get a similar different brand rear spring that has close spring rate but more travel (taller spring). Any ideas what's out there?
2. Get the rear spring perch adjuster.
https://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-1...-e36-m3-96-99/
I guess I can call Turner on Monday, but this doesn't make sense to me. I have the same exact front 29910 and rear 29936 spring like in the website minus the adjuster. The spec says it allows 1.0"-1.75" lowering adjustment with that adjuster. So this option would be no go, since I would like it my adjustment to be 0"-1" Max. Is there such a thing?
3. A Coilover setup?

[blckstrm]

For the rear, I have put 10mm Spring Pad on the top and I still feel that it is too low for my taste.
DSC_0057.jpgDSC_0058.jpgDSC_0059.jpg

The front is perfect IMO.

DSC_0060.jpg

For the rear, I would like it to be 0.4-0.5" higher, which is about 0.375" lower than the OE stock setup. The thickest spring pad available is 15mm, which Is not enough to get the ride height I wanted. What is my options here:

1. Get a similar different brand rear spring that has close spring rate but more travel (taller spring). Any ideas what's out there?
2. Get the rear spring perch adjuster.
https://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-1...-e36-m3-96-99/
I guess I can call Turner on Monday, but this doesn't make sense to me. I have the same exact front 29910 and rear 29936 spring like in the website minus the adjuster. The spec says it allows 1.0"-1.75" lowering adjustment with that adjuster. So this option would be no go, since I would like it my adjustment to be 0"-1" Max. Is there such a thing?
3. A Coilover setup?

First, I totally agree with you. I feel like the back is too low on my car, too. And I've debated going to the Race springs because I'd actually like the front lower, and the Race springs drop the front a lot more and the rear very little compared to the Sport springs.

So having had the same problem, you could add a 15mm pad to the bottom. I bought the 15mm, put it on the bottom, and cut out the center of the original 5mm pad to nest it on top of the 15mm pad. I've debated getting an adjustable perch, too, but have never found anything that wasn't so expensive it made a full coilover conversion seem like a better idea.

[Hova]

First, I totally agree with you. I feel like the back is too low on my car, too. And I've debated going to the Race springs because I'd actually like the front lower, and the Race springs drop the front a lot more and the rear very little compared to the Sport springs.

So having had the same problem, you could add a 15mm pad to the bottom. I bought the 15mm, put it on the bottom, and cut out the center of the original 5mm pad to nest it on top of the 15mm pad. I've debated getting an adjustable perch, too, but have never found anything that wasn't so expensive it made a full coilover conversion seem like a better idea.

The race springs sit so low upfront. Be aware they ride like crap too. You can always lower the front by using E90 top hats (I know the e30 group does this, as does the normal E36, you'll have to double check that the m3 springs fit, but I believe they do).

E36 on the left, E90 on the right. It drops the front of the car about 1/2"




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EDIT: Ehh, this is a probably horrible idea with your setup. I can see the shocks smashing into the bumpstops because of little preload on the spring. Probably a bad idea. I won't delete the post though incase someone does need to lower their car for some reason.
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As far as the OP; as bluptgm3 said, just get the spring pads, cut and stack them if you want it higher, though really a single 20mm pad should be enough. That's 3/4". It should raise the car about 1/2" assuming you replace the stock pad, or even cut the old pad, and now you gain even more.

[Genes1s]

Thanks guys. Is there different spring brand that has similar spring rate but taller/longer travel?

[notMpowered]

You could get custom stiffness/length springs from swift.
Or you can measure your spring ID and pair it up with some KW adjusters, or H&R coil adjusters. The design is different and will allow more travel upward.

[bluptgm3]

The race springs sit so low upfront. Be aware they ride like crap too. You can always lower the front by using E90 top hats (I know the e30 group does this, as does the normal E36, you'll have to double check that the m3 springs fit, but I believe they do).

E36 on the left, E90 on the right. It drops the front of the car about 1/2"

The E90 ‘drop hats’ probably fit the 1995M3 springs and standard non’-M’ E36. I’ll check tomorrow.

The 1996+M3 upper spring is a smaller diameter to stiffen the front end to dial in under steer, so the ‘hat’ diameter is smaller.


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[lcrain]

If probably just buy some OE sport springs for the rear and couple those with the 15 mm pad.


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[blckstrm]

The race springs sit so low upfront. Be aware they ride like crap too. You can always lower the front by using E90 top hats (I know the e30 group does this, as does the normal E36, you'll have to double check that the m3 springs fit, but I believe they do).

E36 on the left, E90 on the right. It drops the front of the car about 1/2"




********
EDIT: Ehh, this is a probably horrible idea with your setup. I can see the shocks smashing into the bumpstops because of little preload on the spring. Probably a bad idea. I won't delete the post though incase someone does need to lower their car for some reason.
********


As far as the OP; as bluptgm3 said, just get the spring pads, cut and stack them if you want it higher, though really a single 20mm pad should be enough. That's 3/4". It should raise the car about 1/2" assuming you replace the stock pad, or even cut the old pad, and now you gain even more.

This is good info. Bilsteins have the bump stop internally, so I don't think that would be a problem. It makes me wonder if they're pre 95 or 96+...

The E90 ‘drop hats’ probably fit the 1995M3 springs and standard non’-M’ E36. I’ll check tomorrow.

The 1996+M3 upper spring is a smaller diameter to stiffen the front end to dial in under steer, so the ‘hat’ diameter is smaller.


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So this seems to suggest pre-95, which works great for me. My car had OE Sports when I got it, so it has 95 strut tops.

I'm getting some Vorshlag camber plates in the next couple weeks when a friend swaps his out on his race car, so we'll see where that shakes out.

But this is all good info.

If probably just buy some OE sport springs for the rear and couple those with the 15 mm pad.


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I have rear OE Sports sitting on the shelf. One of the fronts broke (sitting in the garage while I was watching my kids ride their bikes), so I switched to the Sports. The rear springs are good (if a bit old). I'm in Austin - you're welcome to pick them up next time you're down here.

[bluptgm3]

I have rear OE Sports sitting on the shelf. One of the fronts broke (sitting in the garage while I was watching my kids ride their bikes), so I switched to the Sports. The rear springs are good (if a bit old). I'm in Austin - you're welcome to pick them up next time you're down here.

Turner has H&R OE Sports for $179.


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[hc1001]

The rear H&R OE sport springs are too high IMO. I did like the front and ran them with Eibach prokit rear springs.

[tjm3]

Get the OE Sports. Might appear a bit tall at first, but after a month or two they'll settle very nicely. AND, unlike the Sports and if you don't spend more than half the time at the track, you won't need a kidney belt.

[RightYouAreKen]

I dunno. I tried the OE Sports and didn't find they lowered the car enough for what Gens1s will want. I still have the OE Sport springs if one should want them. I posted up some photos a few years back in this thread:

https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...-H-amp-R-Sport

[lcrain]

Get the OE Sports. Might appear a bit tall at first, but after a month or two they'll settle very nicely. AND, unlike the Sports and if you don't spend more than half the time at the track, you won't need a kidney belt.

Interesting that you find the sport markedly more harsh than the OE sport. I recently put brand new H&R sport springs paired with Koni yellows on my car and I find it very, very compliant. The streets where I live are awful and it soaks up the bumps quite well. I also replaced every single bushing under the car, mostly with OE rubber, so that probably helps too!

[RightYouAreKen]

Interesting that you find the sport markedly more harsh than the OE sport. I recently put brand new H&R sport springs paired with Koni yellows on my car and I find it very, very compliant. The streets where I live are awful and it soaks up the bumps quite well. I also replaced every single bushing under the car, mostly with OE rubber, so that probably helps too!

Having had both OE Sports and Sports on my car, I don't find much of a ride quality difference, provided you aren't hitting your bumpstops. The Sports leave less suspension travel before you hit the bumpstops, and according to H&R you're supposed to trim the bumpstops on the front for the Sports, but not the OE Sports.

[bluptgm3]

Dinan offers a spring that is very similar in drop and ride comfort as the H&R OE Sports.


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[Genes1s]

Bought this H&R rear spring adjuster and got it installed and have plenty of room to go higher than stock, but the “nut” and the threaded stud are way too close to the CV axles imo. I raised them up and down with no interference but If my suspension geometry changes too much (pot holes, worn out bushings, alignment, etc). This is too close for my comfort, anyone running it like this? Any issue?

EE64CAF4-9DE7-498E-BFDC-BA76969DFBDC.jpg
E9CC782E-704A-481D-89A1-59B8C854CD35.jpg

[NeilM]

Bought this H&R rear spring adjuster and got it installed and have plenty of room to go higher than stock, but the “nut” and the threaded stud are way too close to the CV axles imo. I raised them up and down with no interference but If my suspension geometry changes too much (pot holes, worn out bushings, alignment, etc). This is too close for my comfort, anyone running it like this? Any issue?

Yeah the H&R adjusters run close, but then so does the swaybar and it's OK. Give the adjusters a try and if there's no contact made to the halfshafts, stop worrying.

As a general observation, the E36 M3 rear suspension system is somewhat hard to work with. Ride height is of course affected by spring length, spring rate and spring preload (if any), and the workable parts combination window gets narrower as you go up in spring rate. Loose springs at full droop are often an issue with lowered cars and stiffer springs. Because of the motion ratio (how far the wheel moves vs. how far the spring moves), small spring changes have larger effects than you might think. Having the different thickness spring pads to shim the springs is useful.

This is how I've ended up with various extra 60mm race springs I don't currently use, not to mention different sets of height adjusters. My current setup uses 5.5" long 730 lb/in race springs plus "zero rate" helper springs for spring retention at full droop. Height adjusters are from Rogue Engineering. Note that this setup is much stiffer than you'd want for street use, but it illustrates what happens as you go stiffer and lower.

In the realm of street sport usage people might want to look at the VVS "beehive" springs that TC Kline sells. The 400 lb/in version is about right for the street (depending on what you have at the front, of course).

Neil
96 M3 — Track car (street legal)

[Genes1s]

Yeah the H&R adjusters run close, but then so does the swaybar and it's OK. Give the adjusters a try and if there's no contact made to the halfshafts, stop worrying.

As a general observation, the E36 M3 rear suspension system is somewhat hard to work with. Ride height is of course affected by spring length, spring rate and spring preload (if any), and the workable parts combination window gets narrower as you go up in spring rate. Loose springs at full droop are often an issue with lowered cars and stiffer springs. Because of the motion ratio (how far the wheel moves vs. how far the spring moves), small spring changes have larger effects than you might think. Having the different thickness spring pads to shim the springs is useful.

This is how I've ended up with various extra 60mm race springs I don't currently use, not to mention different sets of height adjusters. My current setup uses 5.5" long 730 lb/in race springs plus "zero rate" helper springs for spring retention at full droop. Height adjusters are from Rogue Engineering. Note that this setup is much stiffer than you'd want for street use, but it illustrates what happens as you go stiffer and lower.

In the realm of street sport usage people might want to look at the VVS "beehive" springs that TC Kline sells. The 400 lb/in version is about right for the street (depending on what you have at the front, of course).

Neil
96 M3 — Track car (street legal)

Thanks Neil,

I would have gone straight to budget Coilover like BC, if I would have known this, but we'll try this setup. The car is only for street and it mostly sits in the garage anyway so I'm not trying to dial in too much, just trying to get rid of that droop on the rear end.

[Moron95M3]

This is weird. Not sure how I just now noticed this post, but IMO the rear HR sports always ran high. Mine had a bit of rake to the point that I swapped rear springs as the front was just where I liked it.

Here was HR Sport Front and rear (225/45 and 245/40 IIRC). high offsets.
https://flic.kr/p/4VwM1E


And now with swapped rear springs... (same tires, lower offsets)
https://flic.kr/p/2a74XNQ

FYI - if you think of changing just a pair of springs - the HR sports are progressive (i.e. springs rates changes with displacement), most others out there are linear. I'm running RD sport rear springs which are linear and it's an odd ride at first having a soft->hard front spring then a consistent firm rear spring.

If I was doing anything more than just having fun with the car I'd be setup much differently.

[Genes1s]

Got the adjuster dialed in, and the rear height looks good now.
793ACC16-4063-43DB-B6BA-C0B53DD084DE.jpg

The adjuster has pretty good range, I could go .375”- .500” higher than stock at full height.

[blckstrm]

Having had both OE Sports and Sports on my car, I don't find much of a ride quality difference, provided you aren't hitting your bumpstops. The Sports leave less suspension travel before you hit the bumpstops, and according to H&R you're supposed to trim the bumpstops on the front for the Sports, but not the OE Sports.

H&R says the OE Sports and the Sports are the same spring rate. I didn't notice a difference either when I switched. Now, the race springs are supposed to be much firmer, but I haven't tried them.

I think it's also worth noting that Bilsteins have internal bump stops, though everyone seems to be running Konis.

Also, I just finished replacing all the ball joints in the trailing arm and the control arm bushings, and it raised the car around a full inch. Worth checking if someone is seeing oddly low ride height.

[bluptgm3]

H&R says the OE Sports and the Sports are the same spring rate. I didn't notice a difference either when I switched.

While the Sport and OE Sport might be close, the height difference makes them different rates as the OE Sport will have at least one more coil, plus I don’t know how close the windings are in the two configuration. A straight spring is easy to calculate, these ‘beehive’ shape spring are a little more complex, and then there are the variations in coil pitch that are in the two different height springs.

Also, I just finished replacing all the ball joints in the trailing arm and the control arm bushings, and it raised the car around a full inch. Worth checking if someone is seeing oddly low ride height.

You may have preloaded inner bushings on your rear control arms.
I have seen mention that those two (per side) pivot pin joints should be torqued with WOW, unless you have some in-site to factory (angular) positioning of the arms.
While I would expect some ‘stiction’ limiting free (loose) travel I would not have expected a full inch in ride height.




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[blckstrm]

While the Sport and OE Sport might be close, the height difference makes them different rates as the OE Sport will have at least one more coil, plus I don’t know how close the windings are in the two configuration. A straight spring is easy to calculate, these ‘beehive’ shape spring are a little more complex, and then there are the variations in coil pitch that are in the two different height springs.



You may have preloaded inner bushings on your rear control arms.
I have seen mention that those two (per side) pivot pin joints should be torqued with WOW, unless you have some in-site to factory (angular) positioning of the arms.
While I would expect some ‘stiction’ limiting free (loose) travel I would not have expected a full inch in ride height.




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I did preload the bushings - had the spring out and jacked the hub up to normal ride height before torquing it down. So no worries there. I'm fairly certain that the first time I did this (years ago when I replaced my subframe) that I DIDN'T do this, which may have contributed to failure (as if they weren't already toast way back then).

It has settled somewhat, but I'm still about a half inch higher than before. There was a LOT of material gone from the ball joints. And the rubber was utterly shot.

Ride height was about 0.5" different from side to side, and now it's exactly equal. I think we talked about this earlier, but I couldn't get to zero toe even WITH offset RTABs, and now I had to grind them a little back the other direction to get to zero (i.e. I shouldn't be using offset RTABs now).

I don't expect many people have as many miles as I do, but if you're getting close and have never done this, I'd consider refreshing the control arms before trying to figure out springs.