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Thread: Suspenders...MCS, JRZ

  1. #26
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    Great point on the TT5/ST5 option. My first will likely be SBBR (bracket racing), so I can do anything to the car I want. But, more class options are always good.

    So, MCS it is!!!

    Decisions:
    - 2way remote or 2way non-remote. Kinda of a decision only I can make, unless someone says DEFINITELY one way or the other. I'm tempted to go NR, but then I start talking myself into the fact I don't need these anyway (cause already have TCK SA's). lol.
    - From who? Kinda narrowed down to BimmerWorld and Vorshlag. I like Vorshlag's web page on them, more than just a copy/paste of the MCS sales pitch.

  2. #27
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    I vote Vorshlag mainly due to my experience buying suspension parts from them but call and ask some questions and see how they treat ya IMO. That's going to give a good indication I would think.

    I vote NR merely due to diminishing returns. As far as the Konis are concerned, these will be in a totally different stratosphere based on my experience going to a higher end dampener on a previous car. Have fun!

  3. #28
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    Call the Vorshlag guys, they’re great. Would also suggest reaching out to Wyatt and asking for his input on dialing in the right setup for your car. I went with “alternate” valving on mine after trading emails with him.
    991 | 964 | G55 | D90 | LX570 |

    Past: SC'd e34 540/6, CSL'd E46 M3, E36 M3/4/5, E36 M3 turbo, E36 M3, 335D, Porsche 951, 80 Series LC, Kleeman E55 Wagon, LX470, 970 Panamera TT, E92 M3

  4. #29
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    Talk to Terry Fair at Vorshalg, or call the guys at PSi and ask them about motons or Ohlins or Penskes, or proper Koni race shocks.
    2010 BMW Club Racing E30 M3 Touring Car Champion, 2011 and 2013 SCCA National Championship Runoffs 3rd Place, STU, 2011 SCCA Jim Fitzgerald Rookie of the Year, 2012 SCCA Northeast Division STU Champion, 2015 SCCA Runoffs Pole Position Daytona/STU

  5. #30
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    UPDATE: Karcepts finally responded (via email) with some really good info re difference between MCS 2W and 2WNR. Even though it took them over a week, they are back on my 'maybe' list. lol. I'll likely call Vorschlag Monday.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by aeronaut View Post
    UPDATE: Karcepts finally responded (via email) with some really good info re difference between MCS 2W and 2WNR. Even though it took them over a week, they are back on my 'maybe' list. lol. I'll likely call Vorschlag Monday.
    Can you share their input?

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackHawkRacing View Post
    Can you share their input?
    I'll ask if I can post their exact email. But, my summarized version:

    2W (with remote canisters) and 2WNR have significantly different internals and valving.
    -2W: linear valving, larger shaft size (22mm), better at absorbing big and sharp bumps. Typically go longer between rebuilds than 2WNR. "Flagship dampers". Noticeable difference in each setting due to large shaft size.
    -2WNR: digressive valving, 16mm shaft size. Noticeable difference in each setting due to digressive valving. Very convenient adjuster for rebound and compression.

    Reading between the lines of their email, 2WNR might be nearly as good, or as good, as the 2W on a smooth track. My home Summit Point has 2 tracks with lots of bumps.
    Last edited by aeronaut; 06-01-2019 at 10:13 AM.

  8. #33
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    Here a vid with the 2WNR’s at Sebring... T1 (especially the exit) and T17 are extremely bumpy. There’s a reason they get so many awesome pics of cars nearly airborn during the 12 hour race! The MCS soak up curbs like its nobody’s business...

    https://youtu.be/BvBHpfqEje4
    991 | 964 | G55 | D90 | LX570 |

    Past: SC'd e34 540/6, CSL'd E46 M3, E36 M3/4/5, E36 M3 turbo, E36 M3, 335D, Porsche 951, 80 Series LC, Kleeman E55 Wagon, LX470, 970 Panamera TT, E92 M3

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by aeronaut View Post
    I'll ask if I can post their exact email. But, my summarized version:

    2W (with remote canisters) and 2WNR have significantly different internals and valving.
    -2W: linear valving, larger shaft size (22mm), better at absorbing big and sharp bumps. Typically go longer between rebuilds than 2WNR. "Flagship dampers". Noticeable difference in each setting due to large shaft size.
    -2WNR: digressive valving, 16mm shaft size. Noticeable difference in each setting due to digressive valving. Very convenient adjuster for rebound and compression.

    Reading between the lines of their email, 2WNR might be nearly as good, or as good, as the 2W on a smooth track. My home Summit Point has 2 tracks with lots of bumps.
    Thanks! Bimmerworld mentioned that they are working with MCS on an alternative valving for the 2WNR; wonder if the purpose is to bring them closer to the remotes.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackHawkRacing View Post
    Thanks! Bimmerworld mentioned that they are working with MCS on an alternative valving for the 2WNR; wonder if the purpose is to bring them closer to the remotes.
    There already is an alternate valving that’s geared toward cars that will see more track than street. Have them on my car.
    991 | 964 | G55 | D90 | LX570 |

    Past: SC'd e34 540/6, CSL'd E46 M3, E36 M3/4/5, E36 M3 turbo, E36 M3, 335D, Porsche 951, 80 Series LC, Kleeman E55 Wagon, LX470, 970 Panamera TT, E92 M3

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by E34nication View Post
    There already is an alternate valving that’s geared toward cars that will see more track than street. Have them on my car.
    The ones I am referring to had not been released as of January this year. Are you referring to the same ones? If so, do you know what the specific differences are? What does one handle better than the other? Just surprised the originals were not principally designed for the track.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackHawkRacing View Post
    The ones I am referring to had not been released as of January this year. Are you referring to the same ones? If so, do you know what the specific differences are? What does one handle better than the other? Just surprised the originals were not principally designed for the track.
    I would think so. Just went back and checked the email from Wyatt (it was Nov of last year) and he made it sound like there’s one “alternative valving” and it’s available through all his dealers.

    Didn’t get the specifics on the differences, just the overview.
    Last edited by E34nication; 06-01-2019 at 10:25 PM.
    991 | 964 | G55 | D90 | LX570 |

    Past: SC'd e34 540/6, CSL'd E46 M3, E36 M3/4/5, E36 M3 turbo, E36 M3, 335D, Porsche 951, 80 Series LC, Kleeman E55 Wagon, LX470, 970 Panamera TT, E92 M3

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackHawkRacing View Post
    Thanks! Bimmerworld mentioned that they are working with MCS on an alternative valving for the 2WNR; wonder if the purpose is to bring them closer to the remotes.
    Very interesting. Who at BW said this? I'd guess it's valving specifically for the Spec46 class?
    I'd really like to see the internals of an MCS shock. They advertise that they use orifices rather than shim stacks. Fixed orifices are a big no no in damping control, so I do wonder how these things work so well!

  14. #39
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    I was emailing Phil from BW. I thought I had deleted the emails but I was able to dig them up.

    "New Valving - ...We are always looking to make improvements and after lots of testing and tinkering, we worked with MCS to move forward with some of those improvements. Honestly, I think some racers are going to prefer the old valving, it's sort of going to depend on what exactly the car is being used for. The new valving allows for a bit more control of higher spring rates. There's a balance between the dampers allowing compliance and the control of the spring. The current spec actually do the job extremely well, because having some compliance does equate to grip, but with some new piston technology MCS was able to improve the control at the higher end of and keep the compliance in check. Mostly the valving spec is moving from a digressive type of valving to a more linear type of valving and those two types of valving are very much opinion based while also depending very much on the chassis, spring rates, etc."

    My build has been on hold since this email so that is the last I asked about them but it was somthing I was interested in exploring when it came time to purchase.

  15. #40
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    Thanks for digging that up. The good (or bad) news is that doesn't push me towards the 2WNR's more than before.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackHawkRacing View Post
    I was emailing Phil from BW. I thought I had deleted the emails but I was able to dig them up.

    "New Valving - ...We are always looking to make improvements and after lots of testing and tinkering, we worked with MCS to move forward with some of those improvements. Honestly, I think some racers are going to prefer the old valving, it's sort of going to depend on what exactly the car is being used for. The new valving allows for a bit more control of higher spring rates. There's a balance between the dampers allowing compliance and the control of the spring. The current spec actually do the job extremely well, because having some compliance does equate to grip, but with some new piston technology MCS was able to improve the control at the higher end of and keep the compliance in check. Mostly the valving spec is moving from a digressive type of valving to a more linear type of valving and those two types of valving are very much opinion based while also depending very much on the chassis, spring rates, etc."

    My build has been on hold since this email so that is the last I asked about them but it was somthing I was interested in exploring when it came time to purchase.
    Not a bad idea to get feedback from Wyatt directly, I specifically asked him based on what the BW website said (I buy 90% of my parts through them) and he made it sound like it’s not proprietary. He’s very accessible from my experience.




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    991 | 964 | G55 | D90 | LX570 |

    Past: SC'd e34 540/6, CSL'd E46 M3, E36 M3/4/5, E36 M3 turbo, E36 M3, 335D, Porsche 951, 80 Series LC, Kleeman E55 Wagon, LX470, 970 Panamera TT, E92 M3

  17. #42
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    Another vote for MCS. I got mine through Morehead Speed Works in NC, Chad Morehead has been nothing short of amazing helping me with the setup of the car and getting it dialed in. Customer support for DAYS, on the weekend, at the track etc. great dude with his heart in the right place, RACING! I went with the single adjustable MCS shocks and they are WAY above the Koni based stuff I have had in the past. Good for 3 seconds without changing anything else on the car at my home track.

    I don't know about JRZ stuff and have never tried them so I cannot give you any feedback there. Otherwise for me between the service and how the car is starting to be dialed in I have absolutely no complaints at all!

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