Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 42

Thread: Suspenders...MCS, JRZ

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Central, MD
    Posts
    1,433
    My Cars
    1995 M3

    Suspenders...MCS, JRZ

    E36 M3.

    I had settled on some variant of the MCS dampers.
    But...one race suspension shop I called said I should consider the JRZ RS Pro.
    Anyone have experience with these? Ease of install, ease of use (who doesn't like the MCS adjuster knob design), etc?
    In general, are there any issues with installing remotes in an E36?

    Quick summary:

    MCS 2WNR: $3,350 (had kinda settled on these, but if the JRZ RS Pro gets me to the next level for $700 more...)
    JRZ RS Pro (2 way, with remote canister): $4,050.
    MCS 2W (with remote canister): $4,400

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Springfield, IL
    Posts
    1,728
    My Cars
    '95m3(Avus)/996tt/4.8is
    Very good shocks and felt awesome on an e46m3.

    What would the rs2's cost (non remotes)? How competitive ($$$) are you trying to be? I would go with either option that fits in the budget as I am sure they both rock. You will NOT be disappointed either way, the decision really comes down to remotes vs non remotes.

  3. #3
    MINIz guy's Avatar
    MINIz guy is offline #buttstuff2k14 BMW CCA Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Bear, DE
    Posts
    1,138
    My Cars
    rolls coal
    I have the JRZ RS Pro, just installed them 2 months ago. I came from mid-level coilovers, STANCE stuff, and it is quote an improvement, but also 3x the cost.

    Install was a little annoying due to the remote reservoirs. Rear bumper had to come off route the reservoirs into the trunk. Front fender liner also came off to route reservoirs into the engine compartment; I removed my front bumper at this time but it wasn't necessary looking back at it. Line length is perfect and while my rear reservoirs had quick disconnects, I didn't use them for the install (not that I had the correct tools to refill the canisters).

    I'm not a huge fan of all the rear droop I have. I run a 5" rear spring and needed a helper in there to keep things seated. I was worried that the spring would pop out when driving (I autocross and some lots are bumpy where I get wheels off the ground) and it also makes lowering the car easier as I don't worry about the springs seating. Because of this though, my ride height is higher than with the STANCE stuff and had to run the front higher to compensate, not giving me as much static camber. I'm not sure if droop is as much on the MCS stuff though.

    Edit: I was also told that the RS2's are a twin-tube while the RS Pro are mono-tubes. It isn't simply a reservoir difference.
    Edit #2: Who are you buying from now that you're in MD? Karcepts? I think product support is key and if your shop recommends one brand over the other because of experience, you may want to go with it. I bought mine from a group buy and product support isn't satisfactory as I've been waiting 1+ weeks for answers to my questions (mainly trying to reduce droop and finding it there's a good medium).
    Last edited by MINIz guy; 05-15-2019 at 11:19 AM.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Central, MD
    Posts
    1,433
    My Cars
    1995 M3
    Quote Originally Posted by olemiss540 View Post
    Very good shocks and felt awesome on an e46m3.

    What would the rs2's cost (non remotes)? How competitive ($$$) are you trying to be? I would go with either option that fits in the budget as I am sure they both rock. You will NOT be disappointed either way, the decision really comes down to remotes vs non remotes.
    How fast do i want to go? ($$$)

    Looks like JRZ 2 way non remotes are $3300.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by MINIz guy View Post
    I have the JRZ RS Pro, just installed them 2 months ago. I came from mid-level coilovers, STANCE stuff, and it is quote an improvement, but also 3x the cost.

    Install was a little annoying due to the remote reservoirs. Rear bumper had to come off route the reservoirs into the trunk. Front fender liner also came off to route reservoirs into the engine compartment; I removed my front bumper at this time but it wasn't necessary looking back at it. Line length is perfect and while my rear reservoirs had quick disconnects, I didn't use them for the install (not that I had the correct tools to refill the canisters).

    I'm not a huge fan of all the rear droop I have. I run a 5" rear spring and needed a helper in there to keep things seated. I was worried that the spring would pop out when driving (I autocross and some lots are bumpy where I get wheels off the ground) and it also makes lowering the car easier as I don't worry about the springs seating. Because of this though, my ride height is higher than with the STANCE stuff and had to run the front higher to compensate, not giving me as much static camber. I'm not sure if droop is as much on the MCS stuff though.

    Edit: I was also told that the RS2's are a twin-tube while the RS Pro are mono-tubes. It isn't simply a reservoir difference.
    Edit #2: Who are you buying from now that you're in MD? Karcepts? I think product support is key and if your shop recommends one brand over the other because of experience, you may want to go with it. I bought mine from a group buy and product support isn't satisfactory as I've been waiting 1+ weeks for answers to my questions (mainly trying to reduce droop and finding it there's a good medium).
    Interesting, and great info.

    I'm a bit confused as to why damper selection would significantly change droop? That should me 'mostly' spring rate, with slight differences due to gas pressure in damper. Correct? I'm missing something.
    EDIT: never mind..you have too much DROOP. I read it as ride height. So, gotcha. Understood, and again, great feedback.
    Last edited by aeronaut; 05-15-2019 at 11:43 AM.

  5. #5
    MINIz guy's Avatar
    MINIz guy is offline #buttstuff2k14 BMW CCA Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Bear, DE
    Posts
    1,138
    My Cars
    rolls coal
    What shop are you buying from?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Central, MD
    Posts
    1,433
    My Cars
    1995 M3
    Quote Originally Posted by MINIz guy View Post
    What shop are you buying from?
    Undecided.
    I've contacted anza suspension and SRP engineering. Of course, Bimmerworld. Also just thinking about rebuild/revalve my TCK SA's. But that seems boring.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    7
    My Cars
    2001 M3 Coupe Track Car
    I can't wait until I get my car back from the shop. I got JRZ RS2s during the Apex group buy.

    BTW. I'm in Fulton, Maryland. If you want to take the car for a spin when I get it back you're welcome to try it out.

    I considered the RS Pros but the remote canister seemed like too much trouble and cost for me.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Central, MD
    Posts
    1,433
    My Cars
    1995 M3
    That's a gracious offer, thank you very much.
    While I'm sure I'd say "these are awesome", without putting them on my car, then putting MCS on my car the same day, I'm not good enough to know 'how good' they are.

    It does come down to a decision between remote canister or not. If remote, then it's either JRZ RS PRO or MCS 2W. If not remote, it seems MCS 2WNR is the winner. And I'm tending towards non-remote.
    Last edited by aeronaut; 05-16-2019 at 08:06 AM.

  9. #9
    MINIz guy's Avatar
    MINIz guy is offline #buttstuff2k14 BMW CCA Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Bear, DE
    Posts
    1,138
    My Cars
    rolls coal
    Looks like a lot of us in the same area as I'm in Delaware, probably 2hrs from you guys.

    Check out Karcepts in Frederick, MD. He's an autocrosser that knows his stuff, most guys I know go to him to buy parts and for setup advice. He sells both JRZ and MCS and may be able to help. I wish I purchased from him, as I would be less hesitant to reach out and ask for advice.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Central, MD
    Posts
    1,433
    My Cars
    1995 M3
    Thanks! I'll give them a call.

    Quote Originally Posted by MINIz guy View Post
    Looks like a lot of us in the same area as I'm in Delaware, probably 2hrs from you guys.

    Check out Karcepts in Frederick, MD. He's an autocrosser that knows his stuff, most guys I know go to him to buy parts and for setup advice. He sells both JRZ and MCS and may be able to help. I wish I purchased from him, as I would be less hesitant to reach out and ask for advice.
    Well....they have no phone number on their website. Crap, I hate that. I'll send an email and see what happens.
    Last edited by aeronaut; 05-16-2019 at 03:49 PM.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Astoria, NY
    Posts
    889
    My Cars
    '99 M3
    The way Bimmerworld pitches it, the guy who created the JRZ's is the same guy who left to create MCS; and the MCS's are a further evolution of what he was working on at JRZ.

    If you want an good opinion of which route to go, I would call Anze Suspension (https://www.anzesuspension.com/) they are distributors for both MCS and JRZ (among other, even higher end brands) and work with a number of professional teams. They would be able to answer any possible question you have and are, from what I am told, very helpful with after sale service/help.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Central, MD
    Posts
    1,433
    My Cars
    1995 M3
    Thanks, good info.

    FYI, I've talked to Anze (they actually recommended the JRZ RS Pro as 'best bang for the money in that price range'). Good first conversation on the phone. But, zero follow up via email even though they requested that channel for further conversation, quotes, etc.
    Last edited by aeronaut; 05-21-2019 at 08:14 AM.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Gateway To The West
    Posts
    724
    My Cars
    2001 BMW M3
    Aeronaut:

    I recently went from an older version of the JRZ 2-way, non-remote adjustable to the MCS 2-way remote adjustable from Bimmerworld (https://www.bimmerworld.com/MCS-E46-3-Series-Remote-Reservoir-Damper-Set.html) and there's no comparison. The MCS are light years ahead of the older style JRZ I had on my M3 but again these were and older version of the JRZ that aren't as adjustable as the current JRZ. Several fellow M3 racers were the instigators who had swapped to MCS from other suspension packages. After driving their MCS equipped M3, my decision was made, not to mention with several other compadres running MCS, I had a sounding board to discuss setup for particular tracks.

    Couple of things I'd add. The firm that refreshed my JRZ, Olsen Motorsports (https://www.olsenmotorsports.net/) near Chicago, does outstanding work and bent over backwards to help me with a rebuild after an on-track OOOOPS. In particular owner Tim Olsen and Bryan Hise. If I were buying JRZ, it would be from Olsen Motorsports, without question.

    One final consideration, MCS are developed and manufactured in Atlanta so parts and support are easily available not just from MCS but all their dealers.

    Feff



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Central, MD
    Posts
    1,433
    My Cars
    1995 M3
    Thanks Feff, great info.

    If needed, how has BimmerWorld support been?

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Posts
    115
    My Cars
    e36 M3 x 2
    I went from TCK DA to MCS 2 way remote reservoir and rear coilover conversion. Very, very noticeable difference. Car is on freaking rails. I have a friend/mechanic that is a racer himself and I trust. He almost exclusively uses MCS. One selling point he mentioned was ease of service/support coming from an company based here in the US vs. the Netherlands. I am sure there are plenty of shops who can help setup or service the JRZ but that is one thing to keep in mind. I kinda have gone #yolo with the whole car so the cost was a secondary consideration vs. having the best for my needs.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    7
    My Cars
    2001 M3 Coupe Track Car
    Op, car is back on the ground if you want to meet up and try out the JRZ RS2s.

    I am quite impressed so far. Still need to take it out to the track to get the full impression.

    PM me if you're interested.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Gateway To The West
    Posts
    724
    My Cars
    2001 BMW M3
    Quote Originally Posted by aeronaut View Post
    ......If needed, how has BimmerWorld support been?
    Bimmerworld, as always, has been very helpful. Most notably B-World Grand Poobah James Clay with some insight and base settings for the MCS.

    Feff

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Wakefield, MA
    Posts
    2,682
    My Cars
    '97 M3, '17 GSW 4Motion
    I went from TCK DAs to MCS singles and the difference wasn't as dramatic as I hoped. I have no complaints, but they didn't magically drop seconds or anything. Perhaps i'm not a good enough driver to exploit them. I will say that their compression and droop travel dimensions look much better than the TCKs.

    I bought them from Bimmerworld (who is always outstanding), but their support was fairly vanilla. They gave me a simple setup sheet and sent me on my way. I actually haven't tweaked them much off their standard settings as they feel fine. I guess i should spend some time exploring them.
    COMSCC T70 E36 M3

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Central, MD
    Posts
    1,433
    My Cars
    1995 M3
    Thanks for the info folks, much appreciated.
    For the record, as requested by the companies themselves, they seem to prefer to have a discussion via email. Here are my results:

    - Anze suspension. Initial contact via phone, 5 minute fairly generic discussion. Follow up with 2 emails sent, 2 simple questions. Response: CRICKETS.
    - Karcepts. 2 emails sent, the original was responded to with some level of interest. The second email I sent with 2 simple questions. UPDATE: They finally responded (~1 week), with some really good info.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by TXBDan View Post
    I went from TCK DAs to MCS singles and the difference wasn't as dramatic as I hoped. I have no complaints, but they didn't magically drop seconds or anything. Perhaps i'm not a good enough driver to exploit them. I will say that their compression and droop travel dimensions look much better than the TCKs.

    I bought them from Bimmerworld (who is always outstanding), but their support was fairly vanilla. They gave me a simple setup sheet and sent me on my way. I actually haven't tweaked them much off their standard settings as they feel fine. I guess i should spend some time exploring them.
    I think the TCK DA's are better than a lot of people give credit. It's hard to put a finger on it, but my friends TCK DA's car just seems 'better controlled' than mine with TCK SA's. More compliant too.

    I'd really want to know support is there for install issues; eg knowing correct spring lengths, correct adapters for camber plates, ARB attach points, etc.
    Last edited by aeronaut; 06-01-2019 at 08:52 AM.

  20. #20
    MINIz guy's Avatar
    MINIz guy is offline #buttstuff2k14 BMW CCA Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Bear, DE
    Posts
    1,138
    My Cars
    rolls coal
    Quote Originally Posted by aeronaut View Post
    I'd really want to know support is there for install issues; eg knowing correct spring lengths, correct adapters for camber plates, ARB attach points, etc.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Astoria, NY
    Posts
    889
    My Cars
    '99 M3
    Quote Originally Posted by MINIz guy View Post
    I don't follow, what's funny here? Seems like a reasonable request when droping $4K on dampers.

  22. #22
    MINIz guy's Avatar
    MINIz guy is offline #buttstuff2k14 BMW CCA Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Bear, DE
    Posts
    1,138
    My Cars
    rolls coal
    Quote Originally Posted by BlackHawkRacing View Post
    I don't follow, what's funny here? Seems like a reasonable request when droping $4K on dampers.
    I haven't had this experience when dropping $4k on dampers

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    7
    My Cars
    2001 M3 Coupe Track Car
    Quote Originally Posted by KAILIYAT View Post
    What would the rs2's cost (non remotes)? How competitive ($$$) are you trying to be? I would go with either option that fits in the budget as I am sure they both rock. You will NOT be disappointed either way, the decision really comes down to remotes vs non remotes.


    I did the Apex group buy. Total came out to $3600, but that included GC plates, RSM, and weight jacks, and hyperco springs.

  24. #24
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Tampa, FL
    Posts
    10,663
    My Cars
    E36M, LX470, GL550
    I don’t think you can go wrong with either setup. I’ve had MCS 2WNR’s on my last two track cars and they’re great ... they’re also shockingly good on the street. Sebring is my home track... and I’m very impressed by how the mcs handle bumps/curbs. Only prior experience I had was with Koni based GC’s and Bilstein PSS10’s.

    Another added bonus is how accessible Wyatt from MCS is... very responsive and knowledgeable/helpful in setting the baseline. Most recent kit I purchased for my turbo e36 was purchased through Vorshlag, also great customer service.
    1995 M3 - S52, O-Ringed Block, 8.5:1 Wisecos, 135MM Pauter Rods, ARP Bolts/Studs, Cometic MLS HG, Webb 536/546 Cams, Ferrea Valves/Springs, M50 Manifold, S54 radiator/oil cooler, Technica blow-thru & tune w/ 60lb injectors, SPA T3 Manifold, Garrett GTX3582R, Tial MV-R, 24x12x3 IC, 3.5" downpipe, 3" SS Catback, 2x Aeromotive 340LPH, Aeromotive A1000 FPR, Southbend Stage 5, RTD Race Shifter, CES E32 3.15LSD Conv., Z3 rack, MCS 2WNR (700/800), Vorshlag Camber Plates, BW Rear Camber Arms, Turner Sways, RR Strut Bar, X-Brace, Stoptech ST40R Fronts, 17x9 ARC8, 255 R888R, Rieger Splitter, MM Underpanel, MA Shaw LTW wing, MKAH Race Diffuser, Cobra Nogaros
    1998 M3/4/5 - TCK SA, Vorshlag Camber Plates, X-Brace, Turner Rear Camber Arms, SSK, 3.38LSD, 17x9 Forgeline ZX3R
    2004 LX470 - Focal/JL Audio, 33's
    2016 Yukon XL Denali - Wife/Kid Transport

    Past: SC'd 95 540/6, CSL'd E46 M3, Big turbo 88 951, Lifted 97 Land Cruiser, Kleeman K2 E55 Wagon

  25. #25
    joenationwide's Avatar
    joenationwide is offline Makes Cars Dance BMW E36 M3 Expert
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Leesburg, Virginia
    Posts
    4,207
    My Cars
    95 M3 (GTS2), 99 M3
    Most of us who race GTS2 with NASA Mid Atlantic are running the MCS 2 ways.
    I have the MCS 2 way w/remote reservoirs.
    If I were to do it over, I might have gotten the MCS 2 way non remotes, simply because I could run in TT5/ST5 without taking a penalty if I had to.
    But the MCS are very good. I had built myself some custom Ohlins and I felt the rear damping was better on them, but you can't really get custom Ohlins without spending $$$.
    But MCS seems to be the gold standard for club racing in E36s and E46s for sure. You'll definitely be happy with them and will be on par with what the top guys are running.

    Good luck!

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. E36 WTB: E36 Track Coilovers MCS AST JRZ etc
    By VRT in forum BMW Parts Wanted sponsored by Bavarian Auto Recycling
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 01-02-2019, 09:00 AM
  2. E36 WTB: E36 M3 single adjustable Coilovers (TCkline, AST, JRZ, MCS)
    By NealM in forum Race Cars & Track Parts
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 08-22-2014, 10:21 PM
  3. WTB: E30 (non M) Street/Track Suspension (Moton, JRZ, MCS, or similar)
    By ninekrpm in forum Race Cars & Track Parts
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 06-07-2014, 12:01 PM
  4. Replies: 3
    Last Post: 02-18-2014, 12:00 AM
  5. Yet another Suspension Thread: MCS 2-way vs JRZ RS Pro - e46 M3
    By dubledee in forum Track, Auto-X & Drag Racing sponsored by Bimmerparts.com
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 08-23-2012, 05:19 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •