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Thread: Replacing Dampers and Springs, anything else? 98 M3

  1. #1
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    Question Replacing Dampers and Springs, anything else? 98 M3

    I have a 98 M3 with 130kish miles on it. I'm replacing the dampers with bilsteins and stock springs with H&R sports. While I'm in there, is there anything else I should replace or add? I'm a bit confused as to whether I should buy reinforcements and that's my main question.

    Thanks.

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    Shock mount..strut mount and bearings. You should buy the reinforcement plate its dirt cheap.

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    Replacing Dampers and Springs, anything else? 98 M3

    I’ll second the rear shock mounts and add reinforcement plates assuming you don’t have them.

    The previous owner of my 95 M3 installed exactly the suspension setup you’re describing, however clearly reused the original RSMs. When I got the car, there was a noticeable clunk from the rear, and while luckily no metal was torn/damaged, my RSMs were completely blown through.

    Didn’t help that whoever installed the shocks and springs also didn’t properly transfer over the washers/cups above and below the RSM, which ultimately caused the mounts to fail even faster.

    Point being, while you’re in there, just replace the mounts and get reinforcement plates.


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    Last edited by scrogers; 05-03-2019 at 01:28 AM.

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    Replacing Dampers and Springs, anything else? 98 M3

    For the rear -
    Rear Shock Mounts (RSM), I recommend E46 M3 Convertible RSMs (33526779670), though there are a number of aftermarket choices. Plus the paper body gasket.
    Z3 RSM Reinforcement Plates (or similar)
    Look into rear bump stops and dust shields.
    Rear Trailing Arm Bushings (RTABs), at 130K miles they are due to be replaced.
    Add RTA Toe Limiters.

    For the front -
    Forward Lower Control Arms (FLCAs)
    (Currently on national ‘back order’)
    Forward Lower Control Arm Bushings (FLCABs)(1996+M3 uses Centered FLCABs)
    Tie Rods
    Guide Supports / Upper Strut Mounts
    Plus paper body gaskets.
    Consider upper and lower spring pads.

    To get around the national ‘back order’ for FLCAs, use Meyle HD FLCAs and the 1995M3 Offset FLCABs.

    Quality of Lemforder parts has slipped a bit, however I would stick with Lemforder parts. Febi/Bilstein are good second choices.

    Use the last seven of your VIN in www.realoem.com for your OE part number requirements.

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    Last edited by bluptgm3; 05-03-2019 at 06:14 PM.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schuster View Post
    I have a 98 M3 with 130kish miles on it. I'm replacing the dampers with bilsteins and stock springs with H&R sports. While I'm in there, is there anything else I should replace or add? I'm a bit confused as to whether I should buy reinforcements and that's my main question.

    Thanks.
    He's talking about the Z3 rear shock mount reinforcement plate that goes on top of the rear shock towers. And yes, you should get new rear shock mounts while you're doing this.

    Lots of companies make better RSMs (rear shock mounts). They're a little more expensive, but worth it.

  6. #6
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    How are the other 29 bushings, links, mounts and ball joints under the 20 year old car?

  7. #7
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    Right.

    How much work do you want to do? There's not really any "good" time to drop the rear subframe (and full suspension) to do a complete bushing/joint/mount refresh, but while you're already going to be taking the dampers/struts off is as good a time as any. If you don't want to drop the subframe, it's probably a good idea to at least address the rear outer ball joints (four total) and RTAB's if they're really old. Those are all easy to get to without really disconnecting much in addition to what you'll already be doing. Dropping the subframe allows you to do diff mounts and rear subframe bushings. There's also some additional smaller bushings like the inner upper/lower control arm and sway bar, depending on which aftermarket parts you're running.

    On the front end there's the two big ball joints in each control arm (if you're not buying new arms), FCAB's, outer tie rod ends, motor mounts, and trans mounts. Those are all pretty simple to do aside from the ball joints in the arms, which you'll need a big 12-20 ton press to handle. Motor mounts are pretty easy if you have one of those transverse motor support bars which goes across the hood and holds the motor from above.
    Last edited by TostitoBandito; 05-03-2019 at 01:39 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TostitoBandito View Post
    Right.

    How much work do you want to do? There's not really any "good" time to drop the rear subframe (and full suspension) to do a complete bushing/joint/mount refresh, but while you're already going to be taking the dampers/struts off is as good a time as any. If you don't want to drop the subframe, it's probably a good idea to at least address the rear outer ball joints (four total) and RTAB's if they're really old. Those are all easy to get to without really disconnecting much in addition to what you'll already be doing. Dropping the subframe allows you to do diff mounts and rear subframe bushings. There's also some additional smaller bushings like the inner upper/lower control arm and sway bar, depending on which aftermarket parts you're running.

    On the front end there's the two big ball joints in each control arm (if you're not buying new arms), FCAB's, outer tie rod ends, motor mounts, and trans mounts. Those are all pretty simple to do aside from the ball joints in the arms, which you'll need a big 12-20 ton press to handle. Motor mounts are pretty easy if you have one of those transverse motor support bars which goes across the hood and holds the motor from above.

    I replaced the outer and inner ball joints in the rear subframe and control arms, it was the most impressive change I've made to my car. It felt so much more composed and I could not believe how much better it felt.
    "Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind."
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  9. #9
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    Thanks for all your replies guys,

    Quote Originally Posted by asianvenom View Post
    Shock mount..strut mount and bearings. You should buy the reinforcement plate its dirt cheap.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


    Quote Originally Posted by scrogers View Post
    I’ll second the rear shock mounts and add reinforcement plates assuming you don’t have them.

    The previous owner of my 95 M3 installed exactly the suspension setup you’re describing, however clearly reused the original RSMs. When I got the car, there was a noticeable clunk from the rear, and while luckily no metal was torn/damaged, my RSMs were completely blown through.

    Didn’t help that whoever installed the shocks and springs also didn’t properly transfer over the washers/cups above and below the RSM, which ultimately caused the mounts to fail even faster.

    Point being, while you’re in there, just replace the mounts and get reinforcement plates.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Sounds like a resounding replace and get. Thanks for your input.

    Quote Originally Posted by bluptgm3 View Post
    For the rear -
    Rear Shock Mounts (RSM), I recommend E46 M3 Convertible RSMs (33526779670), though there are a number of aftermarket choices. Plus the paper body gasket.
    Z3 RSM Reinforcement Plates (or similar)
    Look into rear bump stops and dust shields.
    Rear Trailing Arm Bushings (RTABs), at 130K miles they are due to be replaced.
    Add RTA Toe Limiters.

    For the front -
    Forward Lower Control Arms (FLCAs)
    (Currently on national ‘back order’)
    Forward Lower Control Arm Bushings (FLCABs)(1996+M3 uses Centered FLCABs)
    Tie Rods
    Guide Supports / Upper Strut Mounts
    Plus paper body gaskets.
    Consider upper and lower spring pads.

    To get around the national ‘back order’ for FLCAs, use Meyle HD FLCAs and the 1995M3 Offset FLCABs.

    Quality of Lemforder parts has slipped a bit, however I would stick with Lemforder parts. Febi/Bilstein are good second choices.

    Use the last seven of your VIN in www.realoem.com for your OE part number requirements.

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Thanks. That makes it much easier heh.

    Quote Originally Posted by blckstrm View Post
    He's talking about the Z3 rear shock mount reinforcement plate that goes on top of the rear shock towers. And yes, you should get new rear shock mounts while you're doing this.

    Lots of companies make better RSMs (rear shock mounts). They're a little more expensive, but worth it.
    Gotcha, thank you.

    Quote Originally Posted by pbonsalb View Post
    How are the other 29 bushings, links, mounts and ball joints under the 20 year old car?
    Due to be replaced I'm sure, but at a different time.

    Quote Originally Posted by TostitoBandito View Post
    Right.

    How much work do you want to do? There's not really any "good" time to drop the rear subframe (and full suspension) to do a complete bushing/joint/mount refresh, but while you're already going to be taking the dampers/struts off is as good a time as any. If you don't want to drop the subframe, it's probably a good idea to at least address the rear outer ball joints (four total) and RTAB's if they're really old. Those are all easy to get to without really disconnecting much in addition to what you'll already be doing. Dropping the subframe allows you to do diff mounts and rear subframe bushings. There's also some additional smaller bushings like the inner upper/lower control arm and sway bar, depending on which aftermarket parts you're running.

    On the front end there's the two big ball joints in each control arm (if you're not buying new arms), FCAB's, outer tie rod ends, motor mounts, and trans mounts. Those are all pretty simple to do aside from the ball joints in the arms, which you'll need a big 12-20 ton press to handle. Motor mounts are pretty easy if you have one of those transverse motor support bars which goes across the hood and holds the motor from above.

    Honestly, not looking to do a whole suspension refresh at this moment due to time and budget constraints. Hopefully soon though. Sounds like I'll be getting new mounts and reinforcements, looking into ball joints and RATBs. Nearly, if not everything is the original from 98.

    Thanks.

  10. #10
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    Crossbrace!! :)

    If you haven't already, since you're going a little lower I'd highly recommend getting a crossbrace (often typed x-brace). ~$120 used and bolts straight in to '96+ cars. Adds front end stability, and for me anyways, has already paid itself off a hundred times over from protecting the underside of my car. They were originally made for convertibles since they don't have the roof to aid the frame's rigidity. They pop up on eBay and on the classified section of this forum quite a bit. That's how I got mine.
    Last edited by Carpy2; 05-04-2019 at 03:37 PM. Reason: Crossbraces aren't ~$100 anymore. More like $120 used.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hova View Post
    I replaced the outer and inner ball joints in the rear subframe and control arms, it was the most impressive change I've made to my car. It felt so much more composed and I could not believe how much better it felt.
    I had a friend who tracks his car tell me the outer ball joints last a lot longer than the rubber bushings, so we didn't do them with everything else... when I did my first suspension refresh 8 years ago.

    After another 120k miles I'm planning to finally do this next week, and I was already looking forward to it. Your comment makes me think there may be a lot more to look forward to.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by blckstrm View Post
    I had a friend who tracks his car tell me the outer ball joints last a lot longer than the rubber bushings, so we didn't do them with everything else... when I did my first suspension refresh 8 years ago.

    After another 120k miles I'm planning to finally do this next week, and I was already looking forward to it. Your comment makes me think there may be a lot more to look forward to.

    I did mine at 155k and they were quite sloppy. The upper outside where sloppy, the lower seemed okay. I went ahead and did all of them anyway. If there is even 1 degree of movement, it ends up being a huge change in the way the suspension feels. Well worth the effort. I would really tackle these while doing subframe bushings too though, you already have almost everything out for that.
    "Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind."
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hova View Post
    I did mine at 155k and they were quite sloppy. The upper outside where sloppy, the lower seemed okay. I went ahead and did all of them anyway. If there is even 1 degree of movement, it ends up being a huge change in the way the suspension feels. Well worth the effort. I would really tackle these while doing subframe bushings too though, you already have almost everything out for that.
    I replaced the whole subframe a long time ago (5-6 years ago give or take?) and did Powerflex bushings (lots of surface rust, couldn't tell how deep it went so I just replaced the whole thing).

    I know it's odd I've never done them, but they're the last suspension component original to the car. And I'm really looking forward to it. I'll update after I do it. Thanks!

    -Josh: 1998 S54 E36 M3/4/6 with most of the easy stuff and most of the hard stuff. At least twice. 271k miles. 1994 E32 740il with nothing but some MPars. 93k miles.

  14. #14
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    Just realized the OP mentioned Bilsteins and H&R sport springs.

    I had that exact setup for my 95 M3, I absolutely hated the ride. I would recommend you find an E36 with those shocks, and go for a ride in one. The Koni/H&R setup is much more compliant, or even the PSS9 if you can swing the price.

    Also if you wanted to add a quick and very cheap swap, I would highly recommend the front sway bar bushings (and rear if you can). They wear over time, and allow slop in the bar. Even 1-2 degrees here is huge in the roll of the car.
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    Quote Originally Posted by blckstrm View Post
    I replaced the whole subframe a long time ago (5-6 years ago give or take?) and did Powerflex bushings (lots of surface rust, couldn't tell how deep it went so I just replaced the whole thing).

    I know it's odd I've never done them, but they're the last suspension component original to the car. And I'm really looking forward to it. I'll update after I do it. Thanks!
    I've been working on this since Wednesday.

    The machine shop ruined one of the inside ball joints for the FLCAs. The only good thing is I caught it before I left, so they cut my bill by my cost to get a new one. But that's a week I'm out.

    I came home agitated and impatient and tore the boot on one of the rear ball joints as I was installing it. $#!+!

    And the other side is completely rust locked (bolt rusted to the inside of the ball joint), making the homemade press tool impossible to use.

    I didn't expect this to be super smooth, but man, almost everything has gone sideways. At least I'm not shopping for new trailing arms yet...

  16. #16
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    Yeah, tell me about it. When I did this last year I had planned for a week or two but it stretched to almost 2 months. Granted, a lot of those delays were because I was doing other things like the oil pan/pump/pickup, steering rack, and getting the subframes reinforced, but it's still a crapload of work for a person to do solo in their garage without a lift. Lots of trial and error for improvising tools and methods for the various bushings. Getting the entire 200-300 pound rear subframe/diff/axle assembly back on again was also an adventure. If I have to do it again though, which I won't, I'd be able to do it in a fraction of the time now that I know how everything goes together and how to deal with all the bushings.
    Last edited by TostitoBandito; 05-25-2019 at 01:28 AM.
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    My experience about 10 years ago was similar. 1 bolt was rusted inside an outer ball joint. I literally had to break it apart — cut the end off the bolt and puns it through and the guts of the joint went with it. If the SF is off the car, you can try heat on the SF. I did not have all the correct tools at the time and my home made pullers with cheap threaded rod stripped.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by TostitoBandito View Post
    Yeah, tell me about it. When I did this last year I had planned for a week or two but it stretched to almost 2 months. Granted, a lot of those delays were because I was doing other things like the oil pan/pump/pickup, steering rack, and getting the subframes reinforced, but it's still a crapload of work for a person to do solo in their garage without a lift. Lots of trial and error for improvising tools and methods for the various bushings. Getting the entire 200-300 pound rear subframe/diff/axle assembly back on again was also an adventure. If I have to do it again though, which I won't, I'd be able to do it in a fraction of the time now that I know how everything goes together and how to deal with all the bushings.
    Quote Originally Posted by pbonsalb View Post
    My experience about 10 years ago was similar. 1 bolt was rusted inside an outer ball joint. I literally had to break it apart — cut the end off the bolt and puns it through and the guts of the joint went with it. If the SF is off the car, you can try heat on the SF. I did not have all the correct tools at the time and my home made pullers with cheap threaded rod stripped.
    I'm not sure if "misery loves company" or "no pain, no gain" is the right mentality right now.

    If you can believe it, I left the control arms connected to the trailing arms when I replaced my subframe. I'm pretty sure I could do that faster (and make some better life decisions) next time, too (and no, there will not be a next time)!

    I'm out of the woods, but I'm also out of town all next week.

    All the old joints are out and new joints in. The two ruined ball joints and the camber arms will be here when I get back, so everything should go back together relatively smoothly.

    I ran out of time even without the ruined ball joints, so any hope I had of being out of commission for just a few days was just a pipe dream.

    Hopefully I'll be able to wrap it up on Saturday.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by TostitoBandito View Post
    Yeah, tell me about it. When I did this last year I had planned for a week or two but it stretched to almost 2 months. Granted, a lot of those delays were because I was doing other things like the oil pan/pump/pickup, steering rack, and getting the subframes reinforced, but it's still a crapload of work for a person to do solo in their garage without a lift. Lots of trial and error for improvising tools and methods for the various bushings. Getting the entire 200-300 pound rear subframe/diff/axle assembly back on again was also an adventure. If I have to do it again though, which I won't, I'd be able to do it in a fraction of the time now that I know how everything goes together and how to deal with all the bushings.
    Quote Originally Posted by pbonsalb View Post
    My experience about 10 years ago was similar. 1 bolt was rusted inside an outer ball joint. I literally had to break it apart — cut the end off the bolt and puns it through and the guts of the joint went with it. If the SF is off the car, you can try heat on the SF. I did not have all the correct tools at the time and my home made pullers with cheap threaded rod stripped.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hova View Post
    I did mine at 155k and they were quite sloppy. The upper outside where sloppy, the lower seemed okay. I went ahead and did all of them anyway. If there is even 1 degree of movement, it ends up being a huge change in the way the suspension feels. Well worth the effort. I would really tackle these while doing subframe bushings too though, you already have almost everything out for that.
    I can't accurately describe how terrible ALL my ball joints were (yes, no surprise at 240k miles). They weren't just loose - they clunked when I unbolted them (all except the one that was rusted to the bolt).

    I thought my delrin RTABs were sticking and making a clunk when I twisted the suspension, but all this time it's been bad ball joints. That and they were the culprit behind the artificially low ride height I was seeing with the H&R Sports I switched to. Not to mention the uneven ride height. Or my terrible toe that I couldn't get to zero even with a set of offset RTABs (and yes, I have reinforced pockets).

    And all that is gone now. I should have done this ten years ago and 120k miles ago.

    It was more work than replacing my clutch. Maybe more work than the head gasket.

    But man, to get my toe zeroed out all the way around, have the car tracking dead straight and responding smoothly - and the near-magical sorting of all those other odd problems I couldn't ever nail down - that is some serious payoff.

    -Josh: 1998 S54 E36 M3/4/6 with most of the easy stuff and most of the hard stuff. At least twice. 271k miles. 1994 E32 740il with nothing but some MPars. 93k miles.

  20. #20
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    My ball joints were in almost the exact same shape on mine when I rebuilt the entire front end of my 95 M3. When I got my alignment afterwards I felt like I had an entirely new and different car! Not the rear end is in the process of being rebuilt too. Can't wait for it to feel tight like the front does.

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