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Thread: S54 oil temp on track

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by MPWRCPE View Post
    Good point on the shroud, do you have any pics of your fan mounting? I was going to gut the shroud leaving only enough material to hold the fan to the radiator.
    See attached, I'm using the Spal fan mounting kit that Bimmerworld sells. I had to drill holes in the top/bottom radiator flanges (nowhere near the fins, just sheet metal), but that's it. On the C&R there were holes I repurposed and didn't have to drill.

    Quote Originally Posted by m3bs View Post
    E36. Saw max of 238 at Roebling on Sunday. Water 180.
    .....that's amazing oil temp! How?! Are you running full/extra power or rpm? I can only get oil temps that low if I short shift and / or drive a couple laps at a time, with the same cooler setup. Do you have anything special for venting/ducting? Sorry for the pestering but I'm flabbergasted you're getting temps that low, especially measured in the pan.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    "Fear disturbs your concentration" -Sabine Schmit

    1995 BMW M3/2/5-- S54 + Mk60 DSC, California Smog Legal (Build Thread)
    1998 BMW M3/4/5 Alpine/Modena, Z3 Rack, otherwise stock-- DD without burbles
    2017 Chevy SS, Orange Blast Metallic, 6MT -- DD with burbles

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bimmerman535i View Post
    .....that's amazing oil temp! How?! Are you running full/extra power or rpm? I can only get oil temps that low if I short shift and / or drive a couple laps at a time, with the same cooler setup. Do you have anything special for venting/ducting? Sorry for the pestering but I'm flabbergasted you're getting temps that low, especially measured in the pan.
    320 whp, 8000 rpm limit. Maxvelocity splitter/undertray with minimal homemade ducting between bumper and cooler.

    https://youtu.be/P8HKpZWf8Tc
    '95 M3 S54 Track Toy
    '12 X3 35i M-Sport
    '16 VW Golf R

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by m3bs View Post
    320 whp, 8000 rpm limit. Maxvelocity splitter/undertray with minimal homemade ducting between bumper and cooler.

    https://youtu.be/P8HKpZWf8Tc
    Nice driving!

    Your car sounds like mine, just with 50F lower oil temps. I'm officially confused.
    "Fear disturbs your concentration" -Sabine Schmit

    1995 BMW M3/2/5-- S54 + Mk60 DSC, California Smog Legal (Build Thread)
    1998 BMW M3/4/5 Alpine/Modena, Z3 Rack, otherwise stock-- DD without burbles
    2017 Chevy SS, Orange Blast Metallic, 6MT -- DD with burbles

  4. #29
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    Ran Summit Point on Friday so I got to test the changes a bit as well as meet a ton of S54 owners. Good news was my oil temps were in the 245 range. From my notes, previously I would expect 260 in that temperature conditions so there might still be work to do. D\Bad news is that every other driver had lower oil temps. Bimmerworld did have some representation there so I picked their collective brains on my temp issues. They did say they have seen as much as a 30 hp difference in engines and that would result in an increase in temps. I asked it they had any supporting data as to whether or not their diverter valve leads to lower oil temps? The response I got back was that "they have sold a lot of them". to which I responded, "I will take that as a no".

    In my opinion it does not mean it does not work but there is a mathematical equation there somewhere that should support a better explanation. My limited knowledge of heat transfer says the larger the difference in temps the more effective the cooling so I wonder if sending some hot oil through a huge cooler is better or worse than sending all of it through. If I had the skill I would want to see what those set ups would bring. It would make sense that keeping thee oil in the cooler longer would result in lower temps of that oil and whether or not the gain there negates the loss of total oil being cooled.

    My drop in temp could also be attributed to the location of the new cooler as I do believe I have more exposure to cooling air with the new setup.
    ME:"I want to make my car faster and lighter"
    THEM:" Get out and let someone else drive"

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cobra1956 View Post
    Ran Summit Point on Friday so I got to test the changes a bit as well as meet a ton of S54 owners. Good news was my oil temps were in the 245 range. From my notes, previously I would expect 260 in that temperature conditions so there might still be work to do. D\Bad news is that every other driver had lower oil temps. Bimmerworld did have some representation there so I picked their collective brains on my temp issues. They did say they have seen as much as a 30 hp difference in engines and that would result in an increase in temps. I asked it they had any supporting data as to whether or not their diverter valve leads to lower oil temps? The response I got back was that "they have sold a lot of them". to which I responded, "I will take that as a no".

    In my opinion it does not mean it does not work but there is a mathematical equation there somewhere that should support a better explanation. My limited knowledge of heat transfer says the larger the difference in temps the more effective the cooling so I wonder if sending some hot oil through a huge cooler is better or worse than sending all of it through. If I had the skill I would want to see what those set ups would bring. It would make sense that keeping thee oil in the cooler longer would result in lower temps of that oil and whether or not the gain there negates the loss of total oil being cooled.

    My drop in temp could also be attributed to the location of the new cooler as I do believe I have more exposure to cooling air with the new setup.
    My understanding on the diverter is that it is intended to allow full oil flow to the cooler instead of whatever partial flow the stock valve does. Whether that's true or not, or necessary or not, I have no idea. I will say I didn't notice much of any difference with the diverter on track, other than my car takes forever to warm up to temp now (since there's no oil thermostat). I'd skip it, personally, were I to do it again.

    I don't understand why some motors have temps 30+F higher than others in equal conditions/coolers/power levels; m3bs isn't alone in the low oil temp life, but my motor sure isn't in the cool club.
    "Fear disturbs your concentration" -Sabine Schmit

    1995 BMW M3/2/5-- S54 + Mk60 DSC, California Smog Legal (Build Thread)
    1998 BMW M3/4/5 Alpine/Modena, Z3 Rack, otherwise stock-- DD without burbles
    2017 Chevy SS, Orange Blast Metallic, 6MT -- DD with burbles

  6. #31
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    FWIW, I also maintain two other M3s with nearly identical S54 builds. The other two run slightly higher temps than mine, but nothing I would be concerned about. All use the BW diverter and run Redline 50WT Racing oil.
    '95 M3 S54 Track Toy
    '12 X3 35i M-Sport
    '16 VW Golf R

  7. #32
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    I vote for dont worry about it. On the flipside, many s54s have been to run warmer than 245 oil temps too, so I believe that you may be as good as you are going to get it until you upgrade additional cooling parts (running straight water helped me tremendously). Can also add another (Ebay style) oil cooler as well.

  8. #33
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    I think the dont worry about it mode might be full on. In my opinion the BMW oil cooler set up is poor. Plus I do subscribe to the "there's no free lunch" and as a track car I can warm it up so no worries there. The oil comes up to temp fine if you are not moving, even with the diverter. I am also one of those guys that does take my time on the out lap. I am not sure how water will help my oil temp unless my coolant is slowing the heat transfer down but I would think then I should see a bit higher coolant temp in the end and I dont. From my previous set ups I would expect oil temps north of 220 and that is read at a different location. I plan to run CMP on the 24th and will be able to run the crap out of it so I will have an apples to apples comparison. Since I have always seen 260ish with the old dif, if I am south of that I can live with it. Thanks for all of the input.
    ME:"I want to make my car faster and lighter"
    THEM:" Get out and let someone else drive"

  9. #34
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    I had a euro spec e36 M3 which is a different engine but similar oil cooler set up.
    When I installed a diverter valve with no other changes my track temps dropped from ~260 to ~220, stock oil cooler.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nugs View Post
    I had a euro spec e36 M3 which is a different engine but similar oil cooler set up.
    When I installed a diverter valve with no other changes my track temps dropped from ~260 to ~220, stock oil cooler.
    Your "improvement" is more of a design and layout function. The e36 reads oil temp at the housing. The e46 set up reads at the pan. So the e46 should read considerably higher.
    The e36 reads post cooler and e46 read pre cooler. The oil flow of the housing with a thermostat mixes oil from the cooler with hot oil from the pan so installing the diverteer valve in the e36 chassis will "show" huge gains but it is more of a function of where and how it is being read. That does not mean you do not have cooler oil as prior to the valve you were actually heating the cooled oil prior to it being put back into circulation. Regardless I would take 220 but think we might be closer to the same numbers as I am reading pre cooler...wich now is huge. Putting on some new hoses this week just in case the old have collapsed in any way.
    ME:"I want to make my car faster and lighter"
    THEM:" Get out and let someone else drive"

  11. #36
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    Update, post Buttonwillow-- the Zionsville oil cooler was the ticket for my car. Where the E36 C&R+C&R combo resulted in great water temp, the cooler-output oil temp was shockingly similar to the pan temp sensor no matter what I did with ducting or diverter valve. I maybe improved it a few degrees but nothing that would let me lap a whole session without issue in 90+F temps. This seems to be an outlier result, as M3BS above has had great success with the same combo, but it wasn't working comfortably for me.

    So-- the C&R radiator sprung a leak and I used it as an excuse to install the Zionsville Z3 S54 oil cooler along with an OE S54 Z3 radiator. Results: no difference in water temp on track. 40-50 F decrease in oil temps, no other changes aside from resizing ducting to fit the taller oil cooler (images above). Holy crap, am I happy. I was able to flog the car for a full 20min session and oil cooler output temp never exceeded 235-240, while before it'd hit 280 if I didn't back off 3-4 laps in. I'm extremely happy to have found a solution that works with my particular car's weirdness.
    "Fear disturbs your concentration" -Sabine Schmit

    1995 BMW M3/2/5-- S54 + Mk60 DSC, California Smog Legal (Build Thread)
    1998 BMW M3/4/5 Alpine/Modena, Z3 Rack, otherwise stock-- DD without burbles
    2017 Chevy SS, Orange Blast Metallic, 6MT -- DD with burbles

  12. #37
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    Glad you found a solution. Now, if we could do something about these 100+ degree ambient temps.... My car can handle it but I can’t.
    '95 M3 S54 Track Toy
    '12 X3 35i M-Sport
    '16 VW Golf R

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by m3bs View Post
    Glad you found a solution. Now, if we could do something about these 100+ degree ambient temps.... My car can handle it but I can’t.
    yea....coolshirt only goes so far.
    "Fear disturbs your concentration" -Sabine Schmit

    1995 BMW M3/2/5-- S54 + Mk60 DSC, California Smog Legal (Build Thread)
    1998 BMW M3/4/5 Alpine/Modena, Z3 Rack, otherwise stock-- DD without burbles
    2017 Chevy SS, Orange Blast Metallic, 6MT -- DD with burbles

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by m3bs View Post
    Glad you found a solution. Now, if we could do something about these 100+ degree ambient temps.... My car can handle it but I canít.
    Time for a cool shirt.
    ME:"I want to make my car faster and lighter"
    THEM:" Get out and let someone else drive"

  15. #40
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    Little update: Was still concerned about having higher oil temps so I made new hoses to replace the 6 year old hoses I had. One came apart on the track 3 weeks back which started a chain of events. Lost about 3 quarts of oil all over the engine bay and repaired my screw up at the track, topped off the oil and put her back on the trailer. Pulled the filter and found metal in the oil. Car was only on for about 10 seconds so I thought it might be solder from the new cooler as, like an idiot, I did not flush it before I put it in. It also was not metallic so I thought bearings and called Randy Forbes and said I need bearings and my new engine.
    He put a set in the oven, ceramic coated and I pulled the engine an headed down to Florida Tuesday. Wednesday he reloaded my bearings, which looked pretty good considering they have between 15 and 17k track miles. Also interesting to know that they had lost their clamping force due to the stress they are under. This was the first engine Randy has worked on twice. He has done somewhere in the neighborhood of 50 s54 bearing jobs. We finished up and loaded up the new engine. He said the wanted to check the mains on the old one, looked good. I had also found the oil pump chain had chewed on the pick up tube so I thought that was the source of my silver .shavings......until he said we should look in the oil pump.
    Attachment 653658
    Broken gear inside the pump
    Attachment 653659

    Shavings anyone?

    Attachment 653660
    Thought this was my issue but it was worse than that. So we are going to pull the whole thing apart and start from scratch to make sure we do not have some other junk in there.

    Solution for now:
    Attachment 653661

    Randy documented my build with over 1000 pictures detailing this engine from junkyard status to finished product. While looking through all of his shots I notice that there are additional pressure relief valves in the engine and not just the troublesome one in the side of the block. So I looked up some more info on them and they are set at 1 bar or slightly less than 15 psi. That would lead me to believe that you can run on substantially less oil pressure than you think and that the excess simply falls back to the pan.

    This last point would address my concerns for data regarding the oil filter diverter valve as the oil would pass through the cooler more often if it is bled off and returned to the pan.
    ME:"I want to make my car faster and lighter"
    THEM:" Get out and let someone else drive"

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