I will use some caution with Blackstone. First you need to establish a trend, absolute numbers (even compared to their avg) dont mean much. Also, as described and discussed in this thread, there are many times analysis comes back good but owner decided to replace bearings anyway for whatever reason and they looked horrible. Conversely, sometimes oil analysis comes back with warnings to replace asap and owner replaces them just to find they were still in really good condition, not warranting numbers seen on reports.
http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=431107
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I will go back to my comment about track guys or dual purpose guys who run their cars in the desert (so not just moving at speed on track getting air flow, also dd-ing in stop and go) do perfectly fine with refreshed oe radiators and don't run any fans (mechanical or electric). Mishimoto is more expensive and does not provide any additional benefit (spare me the marketing about extra capacity, rows, etc). IF you live in super humid areas and drive in stop and go traffic you might need the fan, but that's about it.
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I refreshed everything on my car (short of block/pistons/head work) a few summers ago, so now I only keep up with tires/brakes and gas (although I run e85 with flexfuel).
Definitely a lot ahead for you. Patience and luxury of not having it as your dd is key. Now I have a baby and dd with the baby, so glad I refreshed everything when I did, not as much time now, or patience...
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Whenever you size up the rims, you are changing the dynamics of the suspension. I will post up some pictures of the 18's, but I never wanted to go up to 19's as I am in my 40's and after having too many kidney punching cars, prefer the softer ride.
Yes, maintenance is key on these cars, and it all comes down to what or how you like to drive. I am a aggressive driver, but I don't track or autocross anymore, so I don't see the need for things like ARP Head studs, ect.
Darin
Current:
16 220i Active Tourer Platinsilver MET (C08)/Dakota Black (PDSW), P7ACA, P7LDA, P7LHA, P9BDA, 6sp Manual - Wife's new toy!
05 325it Electric Red(438)/Gray(N6TT) ZCW, ZSP 5sp Manual Back set cover, trunk mat, Euro Infra-Rot front windshield, and mud flaps! Mr. Wagon My new Winter car.
05 M3 Imolarot II(405)/Gray(N5TT) ZCW, ZPP 6sp Manual C.F. Lip, CSL diffuser, SSK, Euro Infra-Rot front windshield and a trunk liner! Mr. Go_Fast Stored for the Winter
Past:
95 318is Montreal Blue Met (297)/Beige(K1SN) RIP, killed by an Idiot.
84 M535i gray market Burgandy Rot Met/Black Leather Lowered by Intrax on bilies, poly everywhere, B&B cat back system, K&N, and a hitch! Da Beast - Still running w/400k+!
91 316i euro Tizianrot/Gray cloth - E-36 w/M-40 RIP, but great on gas! Best was 38 MPG
82 528i euro Saphire Blue Met/Blue Leather RIP
79 525 euro Green/Green RIP
79 318 Silver/Black - The first one that got it all started
M-Flight Member
but thanks ya all for patience and educating me... ive been a fan of m3 and as i need all the tips and what must fix on this car. luckily i can afford the maintenance otherwise i wont get this toy lol as for me this is the best m3 ever..reasoned i snagged one..but thanks again!! as always, tips and more educating is welcome..please let me know the priority what really must first..as this is classic and wont run in the track, i am planning to be in oem as much as possible what really must done....my lexus rcf is already in shit load of mods do im keeping tis classis as simple...for vanos, according to dealer when i purchased it, they said no issue and all good and so the subframe, i believd they did 3ok miles maintenance on thisbut still planning to flushing all the oils, coolant, water pump and etc on this and have the vanos check again and the subframe....not sure how much $$ ill spend doing the priority for non tracking car..but ill start first flushing by running new PPI and checking Vanos, subframe and flushing all oil, coolant and wate...thanks again for meing awesome
Caution on subframe "check". Simply shining a flashlight onto the subframe and the underpanel and not seeing cracks does NOT mean you dont have any. To properly inspect, you need to drop the subframe to check the area under the bushings. You also need to clean the undercoating to see what is hiding under it. So just be careful when someone tells you they "inspected" the subframe and found no cracks. IF you see cracks by simply doing a visual inspection without dropping the subframe, that means the subframe is in REALLY bad shape for the cracks to have propagated that far from under the bushings.
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+1
You will need to drop the whole sub frame to see anything. There are reinforcement kits out there, ECS-Tuning is one that sells them.
Darin
Current:
16 220i Active Tourer Platinsilver MET (C08)/Dakota Black (PDSW), P7ACA, P7LDA, P7LHA, P9BDA, 6sp Manual - Wife's new toy!
05 325it Electric Red(438)/Gray(N6TT) ZCW, ZSP 5sp Manual Back set cover, trunk mat, Euro Infra-Rot front windshield, and mud flaps! Mr. Wagon My new Winter car.
05 M3 Imolarot II(405)/Gray(N5TT) ZCW, ZPP 6sp Manual C.F. Lip, CSL diffuser, SSK, Euro Infra-Rot front windshield and a trunk liner! Mr. Go_Fast Stored for the Winter
Past:
95 318is Montreal Blue Met (297)/Beige(K1SN) RIP, killed by an Idiot.
84 M535i gray market Burgandy Rot Met/Black Leather Lowered by Intrax on bilies, poly everywhere, B&B cat back system, K&N, and a hitch! Da Beast - Still running w/400k+!
91 316i euro Tizianrot/Gray cloth - E-36 w/M-40 RIP, but great on gas! Best was 38 MPG
82 528i euro Saphire Blue Met/Blue Leather RIP
79 525 euro Green/Green RIP
79 318 Silver/Black - The first one that got it all started
M-Flight Member
Another caution on subframe "reinforcement" kits. Due to the dual panel nature of racp, kits by ecs do not address the underlying nature of failure of racp by simply providing plates for epoxy-ing or welding to only the bottom panel.
Please research vincebar kits and cpm engineering kits which address the actual failure modes by "tying" the two panels together and reinforcing them via bars/beams from the top (which is a critical component to bullet proofing the subframe).
Many topics/posts on this on m3forum.net.
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2004 BMW e46 ///M3 S54 3.2L I6 NA ~360BHP RTD-6SM | Fully-rebuilt motor (forged lightweight rods & FSR pistons + rebalanced crank) & suspension, Conforti shark injector tune, aFe Stage 2 intake, Megan Racing catless SS headers (ceramic coated) + Status Gruppe sec 1 rasp elim + sec 2 un-resonated X-pipe + DNA motoring muffler (LOUD)
2013 BMW e82 135i ///M-Sport N55 3.0L I6 Twin-scroll Turbo ~380BHP DCT | MHD Stage 2+ tune, aFe Stage 2 intake, free-flow/catless down-pipe + unresonated mid sec + straight piped rear w/ titanium quad burnt tips (LOUD)
2012 VW GTI Mk6 2.0TSI EA888 2.0L I4 Turbo ~250BHP 6SM | Stratified tune, IE intake, hi-flow cat/downpipe, unresonated mid sec, stock gutted muffler (Sporty, civilized)
I also drive both a 2014 370Z 3.7L VQ37VHR and 2006 Audi A4 Avant 2.0T FSI sleeper wagon, so no worries here When the M is out commission, the Z takes over and there are no complaints! Winter or shitty weather comes the wagon, quattro season!
It's all good, lots of work for sure but, once done and bulletproofed, we're good to go for many many miles ahead much like you!
2004 BMW e46 ///M3 S54 3.2L I6 NA ~360BHP RTD-6SM | Fully-rebuilt motor (forged lightweight rods & FSR pistons + rebalanced crank) & suspension, Conforti shark injector tune, aFe Stage 2 intake, Megan Racing catless SS headers (ceramic coated) + Status Gruppe sec 1 rasp elim + sec 2 un-resonated X-pipe + DNA motoring muffler (LOUD)
2013 BMW e82 135i ///M-Sport N55 3.0L I6 Twin-scroll Turbo ~380BHP DCT | MHD Stage 2+ tune, aFe Stage 2 intake, free-flow/catless down-pipe + unresonated mid sec + straight piped rear w/ titanium quad burnt tips (LOUD)
2012 VW GTI Mk6 2.0TSI EA888 2.0L I4 Turbo ~250BHP 6SM | Stratified tune, IE intake, hi-flow cat/downpipe, unresonated mid sec, stock gutted muffler (Sporty, civilized)
2004 BMW e46 ///M3 S54 3.2L I6 NA ~360BHP RTD-6SM | Fully-rebuilt motor (forged lightweight rods & FSR pistons + rebalanced crank) & suspension, Conforti shark injector tune, aFe Stage 2 intake, Megan Racing catless SS headers (ceramic coated) + Status Gruppe sec 1 rasp elim + sec 2 un-resonated X-pipe + DNA motoring muffler (LOUD)
2013 BMW e82 135i ///M-Sport N55 3.0L I6 Twin-scroll Turbo ~380BHP DCT | MHD Stage 2+ tune, aFe Stage 2 intake, free-flow/catless down-pipe + unresonated mid sec + straight piped rear w/ titanium quad burnt tips (LOUD)
2012 VW GTI Mk6 2.0TSI EA888 2.0L I4 Turbo ~250BHP 6SM | Stratified tune, IE intake, hi-flow cat/downpipe, unresonated mid sec, stock gutted muffler (Sporty, civilized)
so, i have local shops to check possible subframe cracks on my car. luckily, there is no crack at all as they drop the subframe and check all the areas and in the bushing..now question, should i go to local shops and still have them strengthen it? or leave it as it is for now? Vanos looks good too and no issue.. only thing they did is the rear diff fluid to change to oem to maybe no more rubbing sound on the rear..hope that fix it as they didnt see anything else
You will still need to plan to reinforce the subframe. On vanos, similar to subframe, without taking it apart, you can not tell the condition. All they did is probably just take off the valve cover and confirm that both exhaust tabs are intact...there is a lot more that fails on the vanos that you can not see with a valve cover off or a code scanner, like sheering bolts, broken chain guides, worn/leaking seals, etc.
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hmmm i actually got a quote for VANOS, head gasket, rod bearings and smg pump replacement and gets pricey..is this prices about right?
Head Gasket Replacement w/ Machining Head - $3300.00 Parts & Labor
Rod Bearings Replacement (BE Bearings) - $1700.00 Parts & Labor
Genuine OE SMG Pump Replacement - $4420.00 Parts & Labor
Subframe Reinforcement
Our rear subframe reinforcement package starts at $1450.00
VANOS rebuilds are roughly $1670.00. We exclusively use Beisan Systems
jsut making is price is reasonable. although it is not must yet, thinking doing it all at once.
Sorry, I'll be a little blunt because I feel like I'm spending a bit too much time in this thread. Read some of the threads I posted from m3forum to learn about these cars, what to look out for, etc, especially my first link to m3forum.
I dont know why you would be doing a head gasket and head work, if I remember correctly, you were looking at cars that were 12k and 30k miles? Did you do a compression test, or see oil in coolant, or car misfiring, or any number of other reasons?
Also why you would be doing rod bearings at this mileage? Any knock? Any pattern established from oil analysis?
Vanos rebuild - you need to figure out what that entails, most rebuilds will just replace the seals in the vanos unit itself, without addressing bolts, plastic guide, etc, which requires timing tools because you will be disassociating splines from hubs.
Subframe - do some research and depends on what solution you go with, Vince, cmp, Mason bar, Redish, Turner, epoxy vs weld vs structural foam, etc etc.
Smg - research salmon relay and relocation kits to get it away from heat and malfunctioning. I don't think at that mileage this is needed yet.
You can get a brand new car with 0 miles on the clock and take it to a shop and tell them to do the head gasket...they will gladly do it and charge for labor. You dont need most of the items listed...
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no need to apologized man!! you are just giving your 5cents here. i gave those numbers to see if its reasonale but it doesnt mean i will do it specially i only have 30k mileage on mine. but i want to prepare for it just incase so i know the numbers and i can start saving..but my mine prioritize right now is the subframe and vanos. the rest i can do it in later time when it is needed. but thanks a lot really for your output... but for subframe, what solution you recommend? the best recommendation?
By the time that car will need a head gasket in 5-10 years, you will either not have it by then and/or prices would double by then. Or you will learn to diy and save a lot of $.
Subframe - problem is there is no single solution (outside of either parking your car in a garage and not driving it or going full racecar with a full cage that ties all points of racp and shock towers together) that has stood the test of time over 5-10 years. However based on some friends of friends, word of mouth, shop talk, race team talk, forums, etc, it is clear that just welding/epoxy-ing plates to the bottom panel of racp does not solve the problem, it will still flex and stress relative to the top panel. Plates started as a solution because the 2-panel nature of racp and actual failure modes were misunderstood. What is required and addresses the core problems is a topside solution like Vince or CMP. Cant tell you which is better, both are great engineers. Vince you can find and chat on Facebook, Cayn from CMP is active on Facebook and m3forum.net. Another thing that is clear is that you should not do structural foam only or with plates, because if later there is still a failure, welding with structural foam is not "allowed" since it's flammable.
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hmmm interesting!! would doing this will correct, reinforced the the issue? as this is what he body shop told me it will. as below is what they gonna do:
- Disassembly
- Undercarriage degreasing
- Undercarriage surface prep (grind off all undercarriage coating to reveal any flaws in rear axle carrier panel)
- Minor/Average crack repair (drill stress relief hole at ends of cracks, then repair with welding)
- Welding in rear subframe reinforcement plates
- Triple stage undercarriage coating (multi-layer process to have the best resistance to corrosion)
- Internal cavity sealant (internal cavity spray to protect/coat the internal walls of the chassis)
- Reassembly
- Brake fluid flush
- Alignment
- Rear subframe reinforcement plates
- Brake fluid
- Miscellaneous clamps/hardware that are one time use
Insane that you're going to have a shop do these jobs for you.. I don't have the money to throw at labor, only at parts, so you're very lucky to be able to afford all of this! There are those that will tell you to meticulously diagnose your car to find what you need to address first and foremost, but if you have the money, you mind as well refresh everything. I'm going down the same route inevitably due to a 122k or so on the motor. Turns out, after pulling the head and getting the top end taken care of, the bottom end was the issue of failure. The engine block has rust bubbling underneath the protective coating on the outside of the block. If I want to play it safe, I'm going to have to pull the rest of the motor and rebuild it. What I thought was going to be a 4-week project turned into 2-4 months lmao.. oh well, I love her too much. Looks like its another couple months driving the Audi wagon as the daily.
Send the shop you're having this work performed by a few videos of Redish Motorsport's R&R / underside restoration process.. it should give them a good idea of what it takes to do a great job on this car. Prices looked typical, actually more on the cheaper side at least from where I'm at. Shops here typically charge $3-5k just for a head gasket replacement, rod bearings another $3k!
2004 BMW e46 ///M3 S54 3.2L I6 NA ~360BHP RTD-6SM | Fully-rebuilt motor (forged lightweight rods & FSR pistons + rebalanced crank) & suspension, Conforti shark injector tune, aFe Stage 2 intake, Megan Racing catless SS headers (ceramic coated) + Status Gruppe sec 1 rasp elim + sec 2 un-resonated X-pipe + DNA motoring muffler (LOUD)
2013 BMW e82 135i ///M-Sport N55 3.0L I6 Twin-scroll Turbo ~380BHP DCT | MHD Stage 2+ tune, aFe Stage 2 intake, free-flow/catless down-pipe + unresonated mid sec + straight piped rear w/ titanium quad burnt tips (LOUD)
2012 VW GTI Mk6 2.0TSI EA888 2.0L I4 Turbo ~250BHP 6SM | Stratified tune, IE intake, hi-flow cat/downpipe, unresonated mid sec, stock gutted muffler (Sporty, civilized)
To answer op's question, no, from the list of items for the subframe, they list that they will only weld on the reinforcement plates to the bottom panel, not addressing the actual issue that requires topside reinforcement of some sort.
Please read why sub frames fail and the latest solutions, which include topside beams/bars: http://cmpautoengineering.com/techni...ubframes-fail/
http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=552534
http://cmpautoengineering.com/cmp-en...rame-solution/
http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=555302
http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=529214
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The reason why topside reinforcement is important is to ensure shock absorption is evenly distributed throughout the body chassis, preventing uneven stress in the various weakspots of the rear subframe. Some of the worst areas that are usually not addressed occur underneath the rear seats, removal of the applied seam sealer, glue adhesive, etc. which need to be stripped out to properly inspect the damage. Furthermore, drilling inspection holes to the left and right internal RACP sections from the rear seat area must be conducted to see the full extent of the damage to the internal RACP welds. If the welds are defective, one must cut out part of the paneling on the left and right sides to access the defective welds for the internal RACP sections.
It's one thing to read about all this, but PLEASE do yourself a favor and as-mentioned, view the extent of the damage for yourself to clearly see what we're talking about: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uo7CLEQfTBw
A Vince Bar should be the way to go ontop of general rear subframe R&R using V2 Redish plates.. notice how meticulous Redish is with inspecting each weld spot, hairline cracks, the whole 9 yards.. and then the amount/layers/types of sealer and other protectants to the underside post-R&R. Again, I would highly recommend reviewing as many of Redish Motorsport's subframe R&R videos as you possible can.. it will make fully understand the extent of the damage, and what it takes to properly address this issue (ontop of topside reinforcement).
I know I'm going to sound like a broken record.. but I would highly suggest addressing your VANOS unit first and foremost. Then from there, you have some flexibility to decide what to do next. It's unlikely your subframe is heavily damaged to a point of inoperability, to give you time to properly rebuild the VANOS. I was able to do this in 3-4 weekends, and could've been far less time if I hadn't snapped a cam bolt or destroyed the intake splined shaft stud bearing! Pretty easy compared to HG or rod bearings job, can definitely DIY it in your home garage following Beisan System's VANOS rebuild procedure.. make sure to use Beisan's modified upper chain guide instead of OEM so it doesn't snap within 20-40k miles of replacement!!
2004 BMW e46 ///M3 S54 3.2L I6 NA ~360BHP RTD-6SM | Fully-rebuilt motor (forged lightweight rods & FSR pistons + rebalanced crank) & suspension, Conforti shark injector tune, aFe Stage 2 intake, Megan Racing catless SS headers (ceramic coated) + Status Gruppe sec 1 rasp elim + sec 2 un-resonated X-pipe + DNA motoring muffler (LOUD)
2013 BMW e82 135i ///M-Sport N55 3.0L I6 Twin-scroll Turbo ~380BHP DCT | MHD Stage 2+ tune, aFe Stage 2 intake, free-flow/catless down-pipe + unresonated mid sec + straight piped rear w/ titanium quad burnt tips (LOUD)
2012 VW GTI Mk6 2.0TSI EA888 2.0L I4 Turbo ~250BHP 6SM | Stratified tune, IE intake, hi-flow cat/downpipe, unresonated mid sec, stock gutted muffler (Sporty, civilized)
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