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Thread: Supercharging for drifting?

  1. #1
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    Supercharging for drifting?

    Hi guys, I'm wondering if anyone has any experience with supercharging and drifting.

    As many of you have probably read over the last year, I eventually plan on adding forced induction to my M54b30, along with a cutring gasket, possibly a spacer, and some nice studs. I was planning on putting together a turbo build, as turboing the m5x series of motors is a pretty well explored area. Most of the common supercharging kits max out at around 350whp and cost a ton. I want to build for a reliable 400-425hp, and tune down for now to the mid 300's, for longevity and just learning the power. If I need more power once I have a cage+ added weight of the wagon, I want teh ability to turn it up a hair, without it blowing up. I lightly plan on starting this mission during the next off season. For my reliability and power goals, turbo seemed the only FI way, and the least expensive way overall, while being able to be reliable, to add that kind of power. Now I've been alerted to the existence of hyde motor works, who makes a whole kit to put a Mustang GT500 supercharger, an eaton m122h, on the motor. Seemingly everything I'd need besides injectors and tuning could be included in the kit. This might baseline a tiny bit more than I bargained for, as the lowest you can run is the factory relief port, which apparently opens at 9-10psi. I could I could tap in an external wastegate on the charge piping to run it even lower if desired.


    I don't see a ton of supercharged setups drifting. Why not? what makes turbos better for drifting? Does the high RPM and added load on the crankshaft spell disaster? I can't imagine it would be any harder to control the added heat than a turbo. It would be inter-cooled.

    Am I missing something? I want to add forced induction as reliably as possible.
    Keep it simple: half gutted '01 330i, welded diff, BC coils, SLR Super kit

  2. #2
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    There's quite a few in the upper levels. Hohnadell and Heilbrunn both run Magneson supercharged V8s, Matt Field (and now Pat Goodin) both run Procharged V8s, Both the RTR cars (Chelsea and Vaughn) are Roush Superchargers, Jeff Jones has an Edelbrock Supercharger, and I think there's a few more I am missing both in Pro and Pro2. I also run a Torqstorm supercharged LS RX7 in competition.

    Personally, (only LS experience) I prefer it. Turbos add weight in weird places, hot manifolds running all over, extra oil and coolant lines, etc. This makes more heat in the engine bay, more weight, and much more difficulty servicing the engine in a hurry. Turbo setups are usually good for more peak power overall, but it is driver preference where they want that power. I want strong power off idle and don't want to have to wait for a turbo to spool which was a big factor in deciding which way to go.

    I feel like a big reason you don't see it much is the price difference. You can buy a China turbo kit for a LS1 for $1200 on ebay complete. A Magnuson kit for that same engine is $7700.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Novablue454 View Post
    There's quite a few in the upper levels. Hohnadell and Heilbrunn both run Magneson supercharged V8s, Matt Field (and now Pat Goodin) both run Procharged V8s, Both the RTR cars (Chelsea and Vaughn) are Roush Superchargers, Jeff Jones has an Edelbrock Supercharger, and I think there's a few more I am missing both in Pro and Pro2. I also run a Torqstorm supercharged LS RX7 in competition.

    Personally, (only LS experience) I prefer it. Turbos add weight in weird places, hot manifolds running all over, extra oil and coolant lines, etc. This makes more heat in the engine bay, more weight, and much more difficulty servicing the engine in a hurry. Turbo setups are usually good for more peak power overall, but it is driver preference where they want that power. I want strong power off idle and don't want to have to wait for a turbo to spool which was a big factor in deciding which way to go.

    I feel like a big reason you don't see it much is the price difference. You can buy a China turbo kit for a LS1 for $1200 on ebay complete. A Magnuson kit for that same engine is $7700.
    The RTR cars are Roush V8s with nitrous. No FI on those. I agree that it's pretty dang popular now to run a supercharged LS though, and not a bad option at all. Dai Yoshihara's car is a turbo LS and doesn't seem to be laggy at all though, fwiw. Most of those guys can fix spool with nitrous if needed.

    OP: Supercharging with positive displacement and intercooling isn't a bad ideal at all, just kits are very expensive and not common for our engines. Typically, you can turbocharge them and make tons of power/torque relatively easily. Eurosport used to make intercooled positive displacement superchargers but the kit was $8000 or so and make 350 wheel or less. For $8000 into a turbo kit, you have a 600+ whp setup. If you've found a relatively economical solution, by all means try it out. The power delivery of a roots or screw type positive displacement blower is awesome. If you're talking centrifugal for drifting, always go turbo instead.

    My .02

    Mike
    IG: @mikevanshellenbeck

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeE36 View Post
    The RTR cars are Roush V8s with nitrous. No FI on those. I agree that it's pretty dang popular now to run a supercharged LS though, and not a bad option at all. Dai Yoshihara's car is a turbo LS and doesn't seem to be laggy at all though, fwiw. Most of those guys can fix spool with nitrous if needed.

    OP: Supercharging with positive displacement and intercooling isn't a bad ideal at all, just kits are very expensive and not common for our engines. Typically, you can turbocharge them and make tons of power/torque relatively easily. Eurosport used to make intercooled positive displacement superchargers but the kit was $8000 or so and make 350 wheel or less. For $8000 into a turbo kit, you have a 600+ whp setup. If you've found a relatively economical solution, by all means try it out. The power delivery of a roots or screw type positive displacement blower is awesome. If you're talking centrifugal for drifting, always go turbo instead.

    My .02

    Mike
    Oh yeah, I was mixed up. JTP has a roush supercharger.

    Curious on the reasoning behind going turbo over centrifugal? I love my centri

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Novablue454 View Post
    Oh yeah, I was mixed up. JTP has a roush supercharger.

    Curious on the reasoning behind going turbo over centrifugal? I love my centri
    Overall power, torque, efficiency, commonly lack of intercooling, or small intercooling. Boost linear with rpm. I know it's nice and simple so I understand that attraction, I just think at a certain point the turbo will be substantially better. Maybe if you aren't competing in pro-am or anything, the centri is better for simplicity's sake. 400whp and 300wtq isn't as competitive as 350/350 most of the time.

    Mike
    IG: @mikevanshellenbeck

  6. #6
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    ah yeah. I paired mine with a ebay intercooler kit. They wanted me to run meth but I am not a fan of that stuff.

    this is my mostly stock cammed LS2 on just under 8lbs. A turbo would definitely make more, but this is about all this bottom end can take and I can still replace a plug or do other small engine work easily without having to remove a whole turbo kit.

    Untitled by novablue454, on Flickr

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeE36 View Post
    The RTR cars are Roush V8s with nitrous. No FI on those. I agree that it's pretty dang popular now to run a supercharged LS though, and not a bad option at all. Dai Yoshihara's car is a turbo LS and doesn't seem to be laggy at all though, fwiw. Most of those guys can fix spool with nitrous if needed.

    OP: Supercharging with positive displacement and intercooling isn't a bad ideal at all, just kits are very expensive and not common for our engines. Typically, you can turbocharge them and make tons of power/torque relatively easily. Eurosport used to make intercooled positive displacement superchargers but the kit was $8000 or so and make 350 wheel or less. For $8000 into a turbo kit, you have a 600+ whp setup. If you've found a relatively economical solution, by all means try it out. The power delivery of a roots or screw type positive displacement blower is awesome. If you're talking centrifugal for drifting, always go turbo instead.

    My .02

    Mike
    totally agree with centri vs turbo, which is why I originally wanted to go turbo. The kit seems super promising, andwould basically retain stock everything in the engine bay- cooling, ac, alternator, and possibly even the fans. Might need to switch to pushers up front, but that’s not crazy hard.

    The kit is intercooled, in the same fashion as common turbo intercoolers. The company seems super responsive and helpful, and I could save a TON if I ended up figuring out how to tune it myself. I might try to find a local competent tuner rather than spending tons of money on RK, but they are very well known in the bmw worldso maybe they’re the move. I was gauging that a turbo setup that I put together cheaply but with quality parts would end up running me around 6k, not including the custom charge piping or the clutch upgrade. I think with this supercharging kit, I could have it all said and done, tuning and clutch, done for about 6k. Maybe cheaper if I manage to find a good tuner on the less expensive side. The supercharger kit with the blower and piping and stuff is around 3400.

    I might really go for this after I save up some money. The numbers seem to be checking out. In their email to me, they said on the m54b30 I would be better off going with the spacer to lower compression, and with studs and a cutt
    ring I should be good to 12-14 psi. I need t ask them how much power that would be approximately, but my best guess is around 350-380 wheel. Maybe even more. MORE than enough. Truly, I just want the ability to rip third around certain parts of my tracks, and would probably be perfectly thrilled with 300 wheel!
    Keep it simple: half gutted '01 330i, welded diff, BC coils, SLR Super kit

  8. #8
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    I always planned to put an LT1 SC on my LS2. But for bmw motors, I see more super charger kits than turbo kits. So many of them bolt in, it's kind of a no brainer to get an AA kit than to build your own turbo setup. I love just being able to bolt stuff on and go.

    Status: Someone put glitter in my oil. Wait. Why's all my oil outside the engine? What's that knocking?

  9. #9
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    That’s most of the attraction here. The goal is to have a quick little to no hassle turn around. I want to bolt this stuff in with minimal figment issues, and then be able to start it up and bring it to the tuner.... for as little money as possible. I’m willing to spend money on making a reliable setup, but I’ll still always look for the most budget friendly option.
    Keep it simple: half gutted '01 330i, welded diff, BC coils, SLR Super kit

  10. #10
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    Hi! I just supercharged my m54b30. I picked up a used VF kit with a vortech V3 for so cheap I just couldn't say no. I sent my DME off to VF to be flashed Friday. I'll hopefully have it back this weekend but not enthused. VF customer service is terrible. But anyway, I ordered a water meth kit since plumbing an intercooler is just too difficult. I'll go update my build thread this week when I get everything together. But my plan is to get used to the car stock on 6psi and meth, and then bump up to ~12psi only using water/meth. The V3 is just too big to support an intercooler.

    GcfNFkkl.jpg

    QK6coLUl.jpg

  11. #11
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    Jrcane, did you do any supporting mods? I'm hesitant to go forced injection without preemptively doing my HG, spacer, and a cutring.
    Keep it simple: half gutted '01 330i, welded diff, BC coils, SLR Super kit

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by awp235 View Post
    Jrcane, did you do any supporting mods? I'm hesitant to go forced injection without preemptively doing my HG, spacer, and a cutring.
    I have not. Join M54 boosted builds on facebook. The page has tons of great info. Under 15-18psi it seems the stock M54 can take it with no work. Anything higher and they recommend a decompression plate and studs. A couple guys claim theyre in the 600+whp with just those mods. One guy is apparently at 900whp on stock bottom end. I am a little skeptical of that one though.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jrcanes55 View Post
    I have not. Join M54 boosted builds on facebook. The page has tons of great info. Under 15-18psi it seems the stock M54 can take it with no work. Anything higher and they recommend a decompression plate and studs. A couple guys claim theyre in the 600+whp with just those mods. One guy is apparently at 900whp on stock bottom end. I am a little skeptical of that one though.
    What kind of pressures are you planning on pushing to? What style of supercharger is the VF kit? I'm planning on using the 2.0L m122h from a GT500.. and maybe it'll be a "run it at 10psi and see what happens" situation. If the headgasket blows, I'll just have it milled, and do a cutring/ spacer so I can boost it a bit more anyway.

    Also- mind linking the group? I'm not finding it on facebook's search, and it's certainly relevant to this thread.
    Keep it simple: half gutted '01 330i, welded diff, BC coils, SLR Super kit

  14. #14
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    Supercharged is the way to go. Just make sure you have adequate Cooling and you'll be fine. With the nature of drifting at a "fun level" you usually have short runs and it has plenty of time to cool down. The instant torque in my opinion makes it better vs turbo. I see alot of guys run centrifugal setups on BMW not really the kit you are looking at. But it works the same for the most part. That kit is just adapting the supercharger to run off of an air to air intercooler only.

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