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Thread: Build thread - taking the road less traveled by

  1. #51
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Bellingham, WA
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    364
    My Cars
    1998 M3, 2001 530i
    Quote Originally Posted by Robocop View Post
    that's cool.
    so after installing the fpr it was still high?
    or you cleared the clog with the stock fpr but put in the aftermarket one because u ordered it anyway?
    Put in the Aeromotive unit first, then cleared the line with pressure. Not sure if the stock setup was causing an additional restriction at idle. I'm glad I don't have to worry about tuning around a pressure overrun situation at low loads, though.

  2. #52
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
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    Bellingham, WA
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    1998 M3, 2001 530i
    I've started datalogging, but I don't have the wideband data output hooked in yet. Strangely, when I look at the wideband gauge at full throttle/high rpm, it's always at 14.7ish. Maybe I'm stuck in closed loop somehow? The car doesn't feel down on power... I have a little bit of knock correction here and there, but not more than 2 degrees anywhere in the log. I'll be back when I figure it out.

  3. #53
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Bellingham, WA
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    364
    My Cars
    1998 M3, 2001 530i
    I changed the tune to stock, now it shows AFRs at 15 during high load/rpm. I also see idle fluctuations that look like my front narrowband sensors are faulty. Therefore, I ordered new ones, and I will change the tune and try to add some fuel at high loads for the extra air from the m50 manifold.

  4. #54
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Bellingham, WA
    Posts
    364
    My Cars
    1998 M3, 2001 530i
    I successfully flashed a new tune with various changes and it's now too rich in open loop. I have parts in hand to log wideband AFR and fix the faulty narrowband sensor, and most of a weekend to work on it. I do like how the old coupe looks at night:
    0531192154.jpg

    Here's one of the roll bar before I welded it in:
    0910182225.jpg

  5. #55
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Bellingham, WA
    Posts
    364
    My Cars
    1998 M3, 2001 530i
    Woohoo! I can tune MS41 DMEs.

    image.png

    It's only a bit more involved than tuning a Subaru or a Ford, but the information was locked up by the forces of capitalism and/or greed for such a long time, it feels like a big ugly wall has been figuratively knocked down.

    I will get this dialed in a bit more and post it up for anyone who has a stock S52 with an M50 manifold, intake and exhaust and wants to run 12.0 - 12.5 AFR. I probably won't bother to add timing for my lower compression because it's all going to change in a couple weeks.

  6. #56
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    RI
    Posts
    160
    My Cars
    1994 325is
    Awesome man. Do you have much previous tuning experience?

    Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

  7. #57
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Bellingham, WA
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    364
    My Cars
    1998 M3, 2001 530i
    Quote Originally Posted by drstuess View Post
    Awesome man. Do you have much previous tuning experience?

    Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
    I have a 96 F-150 with the 300ci 6 cylinder that I tuned for a bigger cam and later, a turbo. That was a fun truck until the transmission failed. The software for that ECU is called Tweecer, mostly used by Mustang guys.

    I have a 94 Impreza wagon with a JDM EJ25D swap and a roots blower setup at 8 psi. I datalog that motor with Evoscan, but those older Suby non turbo ECUs were never cracked, so I use two piggybacks. Problem with that setup is the M62 blower doesn't like to spin that fast and hot - I've killed 3 of them. I have a good NA tune and 4.44 gears, so it's still fun without boost. I'd like to do another swap to a GD STI motor and tune with RomRaider.

    I also had a 96 Eclipse around the time the first F&F movie came out, it was a non-turbo, I added forged pistons and a turbo, ran a secondary fuel rail and 4 extra injectors controlled by piggyback. it made 18 psi and not much power because I didn't know what I was doing back then - the large amount of clutch slip probably saved the engine from blowing up, LOL.

  8. #58
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Bellingham, WA
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    364
    My Cars
    1998 M3, 2001 530i
    I have a fuel tune that I'm pretty happy with for stock + M50 manifold.

    Final AFR.jpg
    Here are the settings that worked for me:
    Final Fuel Tune.jpg
    I only changed the Base fuel table, I tried using the WOT enrichment % table at first and that was too unpredictable under different load conditions. I'd recommend leaving the WOT table stock.

    There was only a small amount (0.5 - 1 degree) of knock retard above 6400 rpm. This could be due to the engine making a lot of valvetrain noise at max rpm.

    Next, I will swap in the Siemens Deka 60 lb injectors and use these tables:
    60lb tune.jpg

    Which match up with the injector specs. They flow 3.15 times as much fuel and have more latency than the pink tops.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by mechanicalzen; 06-03-2019 at 09:56 PM.

  9. #59
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    CO
    Posts
    39
    My Cars
    96 M3
    If your minimum pulsewidth is 1.5ms won't all of your operation under ~250mg/stroke end up being static at the IPW floor?

    I'm new to MS41.1 myself, so there could definitely be an additional scalar that I don't know about.

  10. #60
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Canberra, Australia
    Posts
    341
    My Cars
    93' Turbo 325i Coupe
    Mate, awesome work on the build! I'm actually turboing my M50B25 as we speak and found all of your information you mentioned super useful.

    However, regards to the torque of the cutring and copper spacer, I also torqued mine down to 85ftlb as per CES' instructions: https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...RY8LrcY7g6O0zE

    I had no issues with threads stripping etc, and they said that it is common for this combo to leak when torqued to the new ARP torque specs, so just going off their advice I torqued up to 85ftlbs. Given I haven't cranked the engine yet, I don't know how it's going to perform, but based on the the lack of issues with the ARP studs, i'm comfortable all should be good (provided my cutrings didn't slip at all during head installation) it took me and a mate 4 times to get the head to seat without losing rings on the ground haha.
    Last edited by dominator293; 06-05-2019 at 12:21 AM.

  11. #61
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Bellingham, WA
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    364
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    1998 M3, 2001 530i
    Quote Originally Posted by cheim View Post
    If your minimum pulsewidth is 1.5ms won't all of your operation under ~250mg/stroke end up being static at the IPW floor?

    I'm new to MS41.1 myself, so there could definitely be an additional scalar that I don't know about.
    Looks like you are correct. I just assumed that the rated minimum pulse width of the 60 lbers should go there, but I looked at the minimum IPW table definition, and it says to lower the value from the stock 0.25ish to an even lower value for larger injectors so the DME can compensate.

    Hopefully I don't have any issues getting these to idle decently...

  12. #62
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Bellingham, WA
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    1998 M3, 2001 530i
    Thanks, and good luck with your build.

    If I end up with a gasket leak at 75 ft lbs, I think I can go to 80 safely. My primary concern is not cracking the factory pistons, so boost is going to stay at 8-9 psi for a good long time. I'm optimistic that everything will play nice at a moderate power level.

    Cheers!

    Quote Originally Posted by dominator293 View Post
    Mate, awesome work on the build! I'm actually turboing my M50B25 as we speak and found all of your information you mentioned super useful.

    However, regards to the torque of the cutring and copper spacer, I also torqued mine down to 85ftlb as per CES' instructions: https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...RY8LrcY7g6O0zE

    I had no issues with threads stripping etc, and they said that it is common for this combo to leak when torqued to the new ARP torque specs, so just going off their advice I torqued up to 85ftlbs. Given I haven't cranked the engine yet, I don't know how it's going to perform, but based on the the lack of issues with the ARP studs, i'm comfortable all should be good (provided my cutrings didn't slip at all during head installation) it took me and a mate 4 times to get the head to seat without losing rings on the ground haha.

  13. #63
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Bellingham, WA
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    My Cars
    1998 M3, 2001 530i
    quick update - car runs perfectly with the Siemens 60 lb injectors. I set min pulsewidth to 0.124 ms. I think the 13.9 ms on the injector spec sheet just means the injectors aren't very precise below that pw. We don't have control of the low slope and breakpoint settings in this ECU, so the low load fueling is dependent on O2 sensor fuel trim anyway.

    The map I posted earlier was not perfect, I had to add 17% to the low load part of the map to get the idle correct, and I added about 5-10% to the upper load ranges to get it in the ballpark. Just finished fine tuning WOT and it runs at 11.8 - 12.1 AFR all the way up third gear, which is where I want it with the blower.

    I will post the new map for the Deka 60s and the stock MAF when I get a chance. Next is wiring up the Nissan/Hitachi MAF in the 3.5" tube and adjusting the MAF scaling table.
    Last edited by mechanicalzen; 06-06-2019 at 10:47 PM.

  14. #64
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
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    Bellingham, WA
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    My Cars
    1998 M3, 2001 530i
    I reworked my injector voltage offset (latency) calculation to correct the values to 3.5 bar fuel pressure and use a curve fit instead of a linear interpolation. This will make very little (<1%) difference in the amount of fuel provided, but getting it perfect leaves me with one less thing to worry about later.

    Injector offset.jpg
    Last edited by mechanicalzen; 06-07-2019 at 02:29 AM.

  15. #65
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Bellingham, WA
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    1998 M3, 2001 530i
    Updated fuel tables: (M50 manifold, rebuilt head, intake + cat back exhaust, stock MAF, ASC delete, Siemens Deka 60 lb injectors) 12:1 target AFR
    Fuel tables 6-6.jpg

    I have some doubts that the rebuilt head is flowing 100% of the air that a new factory head would. So on a really fresh low mileage S52, I think this would probably run a bit leaner (which is no problem, would probably make more power.)
    Last edited by mechanicalzen; 06-07-2019 at 02:30 AM.

  16. #66
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    CO
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    My Cars
    96 M3
    I'm sure the lower head flow can be more than offset by your blower. Any idea when your kit should show up? I'm eagerly awaiting your results, as I'm building my own M122 set up as we speak, I've just been too lazy to get a build thread started.

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheim View Post
    I'm sure the lower head flow can be more than offset by your blower. Any idea when your kit should show up? I'm eagerly awaiting your results, as I'm building my own M122 set up as we speak, I've just been too lazy to get a build thread started.
    I'm hoping to have it by the end of this month. No clue how long it takes to ship from NZ. Also, folks that live on islands tend to do things when they get around to them, rather than on a firm schedule.

    In the meantime, I still need to dial some things in with the tune, such as cranking fuel - the car is hard to start when the engine is hot.

    ***edit*** Disregard the theory about cranking pulsewidth I posted here, it didn't work out well. The injectors seem to run fatter than expected at low pulsewidth.

    I will redo those tables and report back. Closed loop fueling is pretty dialed in with low trim values now, so cranking is the last piece of the baseline fuel tune.

    I found one website with the 255/40/17 Toyo RA1s at 15% off, might have to jump on those.
    Last edited by mechanicalzen; 06-12-2019 at 10:38 PM.

  18. #68
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Location
    Glendale Az
    Posts
    5
    My Cars
    1998 e36 M3/4/5
    How much longer until it arrives ?? I can’t wait to see your journey and your results and your review on the kit.

  19. #69
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
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    Bellingham, WA
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    1998 M3, 2001 530i
    Quote Originally Posted by stache View Post
    How much longer until it arrives ?? I can’t wait to see your journey and your results and your review on the kit.
    Not sure, I'll probably request a status update after I get my MAF sensor installed and the tune updated. The kit should be shipping any day now. I just ordered a fresh set of Toyo RA1's in 255, so grip should be good enough.

  20. #70
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Stuttgart, Germany
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    One Too Many
    Nice build thread, well yours is next in line to be sent out, should be on its way by this coming weekend or next week. Ships right from NJ, USA so wont be any delays. The current delay was due to the chief engineer, Keith having to take care of his mother who had a stroke last month. So we were about 3 weeks behind schedule. But we are back on track with orders. Each setup is individually tested and we have to do the manifolds from our larger Bavarian manifolds.

    We haven't publicly announced yet due to that very reason but for those wondering, here is whats coming his way.

    HMW KCM122H Full Kit.jpeg
    KCM122H Side 2 2019-04-13.jpeg
    Last edited by MisterM52; 06-17-2019 at 12:44 AM.

  21. #71
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
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    Bellingham, WA
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    1998 M3, 2001 530i
    Quote Originally Posted by MisterM52 View Post
    Nice build thread, well yours is next in line to be sent out, should be on its way by this coming weekend or next week. Ships right from NJ, USA so wont be any delays. The current delay was due to the chief engineer, Keith having to take care of his mother who had a stroke last month. So we were about 3 weeks behind schedule. But we are back on track with orders. Each setup is individually tested and we have to do the manifolds from our larger Bavarian manifolds.

    We haven't publicly announced yet due to that very reason but for those wondering, here is whats coming his way.

    HMW KCM122H Full Kit.jpeg
    KCM122H Side 2 2019-04-13.jpeg
    Thanks for the update, and sorry to hear about Keith's mother.

  22. #72
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
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    Bellingham, WA
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    1998 M3, 2001 530i
    I wired in the 350Z MAF, and it went fairly smoothly. The harness has two grounds that both need to be bridged onto the MAF ground. The MAF has an integral IAT sensor that might be able to replace the factory sensor, but no one has gotten it to work yet, so I am not messing with it for the time being.

    The car ran exactly the same with the new MAF, but fuel trims were all over the place. I started with the scalar that available on RomRaider forums, and mostly had to pull airflow out, ranging from 5-15%. At max loads, the MAF was about 5% optimistic for my setup, so I may have only about 1160 mg/stroke to play with. Still enough to get started with. I don't think there's much point in posting the final MAF scalar unless someone is interested, because it will vary drastically with intake setup.

  23. #73
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    1998 M3, 2001 530i
    Obviously a temporary setup, MAF in the regular intake location, tapped into the harness with Posi-Taps (the greatest electrical connector ever).
    0618191736_resized.jpg

  24. #74
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
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    One Too Many
    You are doing very well there, I would say before installation of the kit do a before dyno run. Then once the M122H is installed and its all tuned up, do the final ones. I suggest going slow and staying around 13-16PSI for the first stage.

    PS: The IAT sensor needs to go in the manifold provided, it has to see the temp of the charged air after the sc discharge/intercooler.
    Last edited by MisterM52; 06-21-2019 at 04:53 PM.

  25. #75
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    Oh yes, wouldnt help me to read the uncompressed air temp, would it, I'm glad I didnt waste time experimenting with the integral IAT then. I found a Dynojet 25 minutes away. For the baseline, I have a very common configuration that makes right around 230 WHP on a Dynojet. I think I will have enough curiosity to get a dyno run after I get a final blower tune dialed in, though.
    Last edited by mechanicalzen; 06-22-2019 at 01:52 PM.

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