Build thread - taking the road less traveled by

[et89]

Ah, ok, Fair enough! I did the same for my initial tune, but you can start with 1 degree per PSI and still be very save.
I was with a 0.42AR GT28.

great thread and build by the way! enjoyed reading it!

What is your username on Romraider?

[cheim]

Yeah, I noticed that too, some of the cells at high rpm and load are right at TDC. Is there a thing as too much timing retard, to where we start ending up with a burble tune that's after-firing under load?

[et89]

there is a thing as too much retarded timing. but I do not expect a "burble tune" effect.
too much retarded timing can create serious issues as well as too much advanced timing.

I don't have my BIN on this pc, but I will share it later today, my timing is much more advanced and still pretty save compared to other save timing maps I have seen around here.

[mechanicalzen]

there is a thing as too much retarded timing. but I do not expect a "burble tune" effect.
too much retarded timing can create serious issues as well as too much advanced timing.

I don't have my BIN on this pc, but I will share it later today, my timing is much more advanced and still pretty save compared to other save timing maps I have seen around here.

Great, I am all for sharing info. I think the Eaton blower we are using is much less efficient than a turbo, meaning more heat in the cylinders. But comparing the shape of the timing maps will be beneficial to advancing our understanding.

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[et89]

ok, this is my last tune with the GT28, that turbo wasn't efficient at al, and gave me some knock adaptions of 2,4 degree in the 2800-4100RPM area at +-10psi. but I used it to drive 4k km through southern france in the summer with temperatures up to 35 degrees. Air intake temps up to around 70C.

keep in mind that, too work around the DME load limit I multiplied all MAF/Load related values by 0,33.

(so multiplying them with 3 gives you the actual nr.)

ignition timing GT28.PNG

IAT's are measured on MS41.2 with the M52 IAT sensor, not sure if that is entirely accurate.

[pbonsalb]

Eaton map is probably broader than most turbo maps for these motors. You could see 15 psi at 2000 rpm.

[cheim]

You multiplied by .33 to get around the 1349 mg/stk limit, or to rescale your MAF rather than using 2048 kg/hr mode? Based on the stock map, those timing values should be really conservative too, though I don't think I understand the -7 degrees at high load and low rpm. I guess you'll probably never be there so it doesn't really matter.

[cheim]

Also, Zen, maybe dumb question but I assume you're running in 2048 kg/hr mode? I'm still kind of a dumb ass on the 1024 vs 2048. If I go to 2048 do I have to chop the MAF scaling in half, and then if so, do I have to chop all of the IPW values in the fueling tables too?

[et89]

You multiplied by .33 to get around the 1349 mg/stk limit, or to rescale your MAF rather than using 2048 kg/hr mode? Based on the stock map, those timing values should be really conservative too, though I don't think I understand the -7 degrees at high load and low rpm. I guess you'll probably never be there so it doesn't really matter.

to get arond the 1349mg/stk limit.
yeah, I never reach that part of the map so i didn't really care. also, my map looks a bit different now especially in the lower load area's because i switched to an HX35 and have been tuning since.

Also, Zen, maybe dumb question but I assume you're running in 2048 kg/hr mode? I'm still kind of a dumb ass on the 1024 vs 2048. If I go to 2048 do I have to chop the MAF scaling in half, and then if so, do I have to chop all of the IPW values in the fueling tables too?

when using the 2048kg/hr load, just paste your MAF scaling in the 2048 kg/hr map. don't chop it in half.

definitly don't chop IPW values!! even when you choose to chop stuff in half to get around the 1349mg/stk limit, only do it on the load/MAF values.

[MisterM52]

How has the build gone I wonder.. Any updates?

[mechanicalzen]

Had to work on the heating system in my house, and prepping the rally wagon for winter. My replacement head has some scratches on the mating surface from shipping, and I am planning to use this as an excuse to add a milling machine to my shop. (I have tons of other things I'd like fabricate with a mill.)



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[cheim]

Did you have any issues getting the injectors to seal in the manifold? I'm having a hard time getting them to seal even with brand new o-rings, and am not sure if its the manifold or the hardlines bumping into the intercooler core pushing the rail slightly out of position. I did pull off the injector wiring cover as MrM52 suggested.

[mechanicalzen]

Did you have any issues getting the injectors to seal in the manifold? I'm having a hard time getting them to seal even with brand new o-rings, and am not sure if its the manifold or the hardlines bumping into the intercooler core pushing the rail slightly out of position. I did pull off the injector wiring cover as MrM52 suggested.

No problems with sealing here, I did need to modify my rail mounting brackets to get the correct height. You could try putting washers under yours, move the o rings to a different position?

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[MisterM52]

Pictures....

[5speed300]

Anything ever come of this? Car fixed?

[mechanicalzen]

I put this project on hold so I could work on my rally car. I am laid off work temporarily because of the virus, and the rally car is finished, so it's time I blow the dust off this thing and dig into it again. I still need to get this new head resurfaced, which could be difficult right now because we've been ordered to stay home except for essential business here in WA. I will pull the old head and see what failed, in any case.

[cheim]

I know you're otherwise distracted from this project, but just wanted to pop in to let you know that I saw that you're using stock injector dead times in the tune that you had posted a while back. I haven't really settled on anything perfect, but I found the following. May help with some of the tuning issues you'd mentioned. I believe you're running the siemens 60lbers




- - - Updated - - -

Boo.

3 BAR dead time/latency offset Table:
8 volts 1.538 ms; 9v 1.231ms; 10v 0.923; 11v 0.708; 12v 0.523; 13v 0.400ms; 14v 0.308; 15v 0.215; 16v 0.092; 17v 0.000

V	ms
0.0	2.811
6.0	2.811
8.0	1.777
10.0	1.288
12.0	1.017
14.0	0.801
16.0	0.639
25.0	0.639

[mechanicalzen]

I know you're otherwise distracted from this project, but just wanted to pop in to let you know that I saw that you're using stock injector dead times in the tune that you had posted a while back. I haven't really settled on anything perfect, but I found the following. May help with some of the tuning issues you'd mentioned. I believe you're running the siemens 60lbers




- - - Updated - - -

Boo.

3 BAR dead time/latency offset Table:
8 volts 1.538 ms; 9v 1.231ms; 10v 0.923; 11v 0.708; 12v 0.523; 13v 0.400ms; 14v 0.308; 15v 0.215; 16v 0.092; 17v 0.000

V	ms
0.0	2.811
6.0	2.811
8.0	1.777
10.0	1.288
12.0	1.017
14.0	0.801
16.0	0.639
25.0	0.639

Yes I am, thank you! I don't recall if I had changed those values from stock during subsequent tuning, but that could definitely screw with transient fueling at low rpm if I do have the wrong values.

[mechanicalzen]

Finished a few other projects and decided it's time to dive back into this car because I miss driving it...

I've been unemployed since April, so no budget for new parts unfortunately. Once again I have lots of time though.

The plan is to remove the O ring gasket and install the new Victor Rein head gasket I have laying around, on top of the copper spacer, and see how long that lasts.

On removing the HMW manifold, I found a failed vacuum hose. This was caused by tight clearance between the nipple on the blower and the bottom of the manifold, and I'm sure this was causing the aggravating throttle response issue I was having, as well as throwing off the tune.

nipple.jpg

Luckily, there is a perfect 90 degree nipple on the Ford blower intake casting I can remove and epoxy in place of the straight nipple that should resolve the clearance issue:

casting.jpg

Now, to the rest of the dissasembly and hopefully finding exactly what failed and allowed the exhuast into my cooling system.

Here's a shot from rallycross, photo credit to White Hawk Racing:

rally labor day.jpg

[pbonsalb]

I can’t make out the BMW emblem on the rallycross car.

[mechanicalzen]

I can’t make out the BMW emblem on the rallycross car.

Yeah it's hard to beat the Japanese power to weight ratio in the dirt/gravel.

I pulled the head and didn't find evidence of the failure on inspection. I did notice that the cutring on cylinder #6 was not very well centered on the bore. The fire rings on the Reinz (or is it an Elring Klinger?) gasket are larger than the cutrings, so it should still seal up pretty well over the indentations on the copper spacer.

Looking forward to firing this thing up again soon.

[mechanicalzen]

rebuilt M50 head ready to go on

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[mechanicalzen]

I think this is where the cutring I didnt install properly started leaking:

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[mechanicalzen]

Going to sand this ridge down on the spacer so the Elring gasket gets a good even bite:

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[mechanicalzen]

New nipple installed. These are press fit, no adhesive necessary.

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