Car Decided not to start today. yay

[H2oiamwater]

97 328is 336k miles 5 spd.

Car will not fire off...will crank but not turn over.



So back story on the car and how its been running.

Every once and a while the car will get to 2k RPM and fall on its face. then power back up once it gets past it.
Sometimes when i get to a light it'll sputter for a second then be fine.

Last Friday I drove it to work like i do daily. about a 15 min drive mostly freeway. Get to work park it and go about my day.

Come out to start it Cranks forever no start. Try trouble shooting it for a hourish nothing so i go home to get my second car and come back later that night to try again check fuses, smack the pump with a mallet and finally push it into a nicely lit spot at my job.

Poured rain all weekend so dint wanna mess with it.

Today went in to work and then troubleshooted it. Sprayed Starter fluid first two cranks it almost got over the hump. then back to just cranking.
checked relays and swapped it with another relay in the box seemed good. came back on another break sprayed little fluid, nothing still.

I unscrewed the valve cover on the fuel rail pushed in the shrader valve and fluid sprayed for a second. re cranked the car and it pressurized again and sprayed again. So it seems as the fuel rails getting gas. so one would assume the pumps good and filter is good and relay.

i think there suppose to have over 45psi of pressure to the fuel rail. Now Ive heard when your cars hot the radiator valve is about 15 psi. When i popped the shrader valve for a couple seconds it dint feel like 45+ psi. So can i maybe assume its a partially clogged filer? I have one already and was planning to swap it out to maybe fix the shuddering and sudden power loss at 2k rpm. So it'd be nothing to try that right now.

If not that then one would assume loss of spark? With the Coil packs one would assume not all them can go bad. In turn the car would just run crappy and have a miss fire of some type if one was bad? I replaced plugs about 30-40k i think.

I also replaced the cam shaft sensor last summer with a quality one and read maybe that could be effecting it.


Please anyone feel free to chime in at anytime. Being as maybe their only working at less then optimal level Even though im getting fuel to the rail I haven't fully ruled out anything fuel related being the problem unless someone tells me otherwise.

[bluptgm3]

Are you getting CE light in dash? Have you checked for store codes?

FYI -“Crank” and “turn over” are terms for the same event.
“Crank” and not start/fire
and
“turn over” and not start/fire
are also describing the same series of events.
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[H2oiamwater]

Are you getting CE light in dash? Have you checked for store codes?

FYI -“Crank” and “turn over” are terms for the same event.
“Crank” and not start/fire
and
“turn over” and not start/fire
are also describing the same series of events.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No CEL on the dash but that was my next endever as well, just trying to get a OBD reader from my brother at the moment.

Sorry about that, I was always thinking that the "turn over" was when the car actually got over that hump and started.

[FiberFast]

97 328is 336k miles 5 spd.

Car will not fire off...will crank but not turn over.



So back story on the car and how its been running.

Every once and a while the car will get to 2k RPM and fall on its face. then power back up once it gets past it.
Sometimes when i get to a light it'll sputter for a second then be fine.

Last Friday I drove it to work like i do daily. about a 15 min drive mostly freeway. Get to work park it and go about my day.

Come out to start it Cranks forever no start. Try trouble shooting it for a hourish nothing so i go home to get my second car and come back later that night to try again check fuses, smack the pump with a mallet and finally push it into a nicely lit spot at my job.

Poured rain all weekend so dint wanna mess with it.

Today went in to work and then troubleshooted it. Sprayed Starter fluid first two cranks it almost got over the hump. then back to just cranking.
checked relays and swapped it with another relay in the box seemed good. came back on another break sprayed little fluid, nothing still.

I unscrewed the valve cover on the fuel rail pushed in the shrader valve and fluid sprayed for a second. re cranked the car and it pressurized again and sprayed again. So it seems as the fuel rails getting gas. so one would assume the pumps good and filter is good and relay.

i think there suppose to have over 45psi of pressure to the fuel rail. Now Ive heard when your cars hot the radiator valve is about 15 psi. When i popped the shrader valve for a couple seconds it dint feel like 45+ psi. So can i maybe assume its a partially clogged filer? I have one already and was planning to swap it out to maybe fix the shuddering and sudden power loss at 2k rpm. So it'd be nothing to try that right now.

If not that then one would assume loss of spark? With the Coil packs one would assume not all them can go bad. In turn the car would just run crappy and have a miss fire of some type if one was bad? I replaced plugs about 30-40k i think.

I also replaced the cam shaft sensor last summer with a quality one and read maybe that could be effecting it.


Please anyone feel free to chime in at anytime. Being as maybe their only working at less then optimal level Even though im getting fuel to the rail I haven't fully ruled out anything fuel related being the problem unless someone tells me otherwise.

First check for vacuum leaks and clean/inspect the ICV while you are in there, then the cam/crankshaft position sensor next. Check the cam position sensor and ensure that it is functioning correctly. From your description, the cam and crank position sensors would be the first items to replace. Then I would look at the coil packs, then injectors, then DME... If none of that fixes it you got a broken new part, a wire gremlin, or a more serious mechanical problem (Vanos ect). You know, you should be checking all that shit anyways... Come to think of it, doing exactly what I just said in that order would fix 99% of the problems people post on here. I mean these cars are all old as shit, and all have the exact same problems. Broken old intake hoses, worn out hall effect sensors (Cam/Crank), bad coils and clogged injectors. I rarely see dme's fail unless someone is doing something particularly stupid (You have to short it out). Every once in a blue moon you see a knock sensor go. The M50/52 are quite venerable with the exception of the warpy heads...

[Eric93se]

I would put a fuel pressure gauge on it.

[H2oiamwater]

First check for vacuum leaks and clean/inspect the ICV while you are in there, then the cam/crankshaft position sensor next. Check the cam position sensor and ensure that it is functioning correctly. From your description, the cam and crank position sensors would be the first items to replace. Then I would look at the coil packs, then injectors, then DME... If none of that fixes it you got a broken new part, a wire gremlin, or a more serious mechanical problem (Vanos ect). You know, you should be checking all that shit anyways... Come to think of it, doing exactly what I just said in that order would fix 99% of the problems people post on here. I mean these cars are all old as shit, and all have the exact same problems. Broken old intake hoses, worn out hall effect sensors (Cam/Crank), bad coils and clogged injectors. I rarely see dme's fail unless someone is doing something particularly stupid (You have to short it out). Every once in a blue moon you see a knock sensor go. The M50/52 are quite venerable with the exception of the warpy heads...

Exactly these cars all have the same problems, waiting to read codes and check spark, then double check my cam sensor (6 months old) and crankshaft position sensor was my next item

I visually inspected and didnt see any vacuum leaks but I'll check again. Thanks for the input Fiberfast! Appreciate it.





Is there 2 Crank position sensors Im reading? one on the back driver side and one on the lower front?

[bluptgm3]

The M50/S50 have Crank Position Sensor on front cover reading the harmonic balancer pulse wheel.
The M52/S52 have the Crank Position Sensor in the side of the block below the starter reading a pulse wheel on the crank.


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[H2oiamwater]

The M50/S50 have Crank Position Sensor on front cover reading the harmonic balancer pulse wheel.
The M52/S52 have the Crank Position Sensor in the side of the block below the starter reading a pulse wheel on the crank.


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Awesome thank you! I read about that after looking into it more... Knock on wood it has the right connectors.

Got a new sensor should be here tomorrow.

Im thinking it has to be that...

[H2oiamwater]

So put a new Crank Sensor in yesterday nothing different.


Put a new fuel filter in today. Figured since I had it. still no fire. But i checked my fuel at the fuel rail and the pressure is like night and day. It would spray for a second then dribble like a old man. Now its a rushing race horse. Kinda wish it would start, i could imagine how much better it would run now.

So being there's fuel to the rail that means fuel pump and filter are good.

But now its on to spark. Gonna test the coils and plugs in the next day or two. -_- any more ideas feel free to chime in.

[Eric93se]

Crank or Cam ?

Just so you know, seeing fuel at the rail doesn't mean there's proper pressure.

[H2oiamwater]

Crank or Cam ?

Just so you know, seeing fuel at the rail doesn't mean there's proper pressure.

I did the cam shaft last summer right above the vanos unit. The crank sensor on mine is on the back of the block. 3 hours and all by feel later lol

That is true...from the difference I saw yesterday to today...it was literally a quick sprit and then dribble yesterday to a super soaker every time i pushed the schrader valve so big improvement.

But there is no start even with starter fluid so that's where im assuming its eletric? .

At this point i wish i was a fuel issue to begin with

[FiberFast]

Yep, check your coils. Trying to think this though, you got fuel, (Regardless of whether or not its enough it should still fire) So you are on to the coils and dme. Don't get mad, you got all new sensors so when it does run its going to be proper. With cars these old you might as well get it out of the way.

[Eric93se]

You should get a laptop and put INPA on it, get a cable off ebay or youtube.

https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...ad.php?2184573

[H2oiamwater]

Yep, check your coils. Trying to think this though, you got fuel, (Regardless of whether or not its enough it should still fire) So you are on to the coils and dme. Don't get mad, you got all new sensors so when it does run its going to be proper. With cars these old you might as well get it out of the way.

I’m not mad the cars gonna be running awesome it’s more frustrating it’s not starting. I just hate not knowing what the solution is especially when it’s sitting at my work parking lot and not at home. But I am excited now with a new fuel filter it’s gonna be awesome!

Side note just to start shopping around. Anyone have opinions on Coil Packs?

[H2oiamwater]

95480B95-FFAF-48BD-9390-AA49326DD388.jpg

So new plugs in too and still no start re scanned today. What would make both get thrown. Both sensors are vpo. I believe not china brand

[Eric93se]

You mean VDO right?

Just so you know, spark plugs and coils are rarely a reason for a no start condition. Your year old CAM senosor may be the problem.

[Eric93se]

How many miles is your car from your home? If it's just a couple miles you can get AAA basic, if it's farther then they have upgraded assistance, I think the second tier is like 80 or 200 miles or something. The service is much cheaper than paying a tow truck out of pocket.

- - - Updated - - -

I've done the crank sensor from below and it's not really possible for thick forearms, but from above it's pretty easy once you get the throttle body out of the way. While doing it from above I tapped my allen key against the starter and started it (didn't engage engine) and it scared the crap out of me and pulled my arm out of the engine bay so fast that I scraped my forearm pretty bad.

[Eric93se]

Also just to add, myself and others have had trouble with aftermarket sensors, I also have VDO right now and it seems to be fine but INPA reports errors that are sporadic so it's not a set code. I've gone through a bunch of other brands that I had to return. Another guy here went through 3-4 sensors and only an actual BMW (from the dealer) fixed the problem. So take that for what its worth. There are some online dealers that have the actual BMW part at a slight discount, I saw RMeuropean had it for around $130 last I checked. The aftermarket companies are doing a poor job of copying the sensor it seems.

[spyderg0d]

Chances are if you got it from a part store, despite brand, it will work. Part stores may sell easily breakable parts that dont last long, but they dont sell parts that come out of the box as non working. Theres no money in that.
If you sprayed starter fluid in it and it didnt fire, its not getting spark or the ignition timing is severely off as the starter fluid is replaceing fuel. So its either crank or cam sensors or a spark execution problem. If the crank and cam are part store parts, check the ohmages to make sure they are proper. Other wise, check the coil packs by finding specs. Just 2 coil packs will keep the engine from starting.
Also as a side note. I had a 328is that had a bad coil pack. While swapping the coil pack around to make sure it wasnt wireing, every wire i plugged the faulty pack into, the dme would shut down that cylinder. So when i plugged a proper working pack into it, the cylinder still did not have spark. Its a misfire protection for misfireing coils.. So, to reset the adaptation, you unplug the battery, let it sit for 5 minutes, plug back in. Of coarse this is after replaceing found faulty coil packs.

[H2oiamwater]

Both sensors are VDO/appear to have the BMW label/logo scratched out as others have said.

It wont start on fluid. The couple times i tried different days it would get a touch further but no full fire.

Thats good to know, my spark plugs were pretty shot so if they weren't causing a misfire would that enable the misfire protection? man if i can go home tonight and drain the circuits and re attach the battery that would be awesome!

as always thanks for the help guys!