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Thread: Getting the '81 E21 running again just takes, getting....

  1. #1
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    Getting the '81 E21 running again just takes, getting....

    In the fall of 2016 I decided to drive my car to work. It was a day that I was going to just spend in the office and as I have a short commute, for Southern California, of about a hour I thought I would take the E21. Now I will admit that my drive does include about 25 miles of Highway 18, in the mountains above San Bernardino, CA. Going to work can be fun given the road and the view, coming home is a drive that melts the memory of a day and makes you focus on the road.

    But, a dead battery at the bottom of the hill at the stoplight on 40th and Waterman meant that my drive home was not going to be the trip I was looking forward too. This was back in the day that you could still talk the AAA tow truck driver with the flatbed to drop you off at other than a shop, and as my friends know I might have another car to switch to if the need arises. As it turns out I was able to get my self and the now dead car to the storage lot where I keep the things that no longer give my nabbers the excuse to label our home "Crazy Dave's used cars and appliances", that because of the washer and dryer that got stuck in front of the house because of the snow storm. Life at 5600' can give you weather, even in SoCal.

    So, with the E21 in a safe place and work to do I started to pull together a plan, that has taken until yesterday to come together. Yea, thank God for, "Old Man". More on that shortly.

    This car has been in the family for a while. Purchased from a friend who spent some time and effort on it, it had the makings of something that could be enjoyed. It's first tour of duty was with my oldest, Katie when she wanted/needed a car while in college in Flagstaff, AZ. I still remember the day I dropped it off and she got to learn to drive a stick. On her way to work.

    Then after it's time, replaced by to Subi' Outback, it returned to my care to become what else, an auto cross car. Now in our local chapter of the SCCA we have a class for older cars, "Historic" as they call it. No, a '81 320i is not as old as cars that they had intended but '80 somethings that ran on "13 inch tires with suspensions that allowed you to almost scrape the door handles in a corner fit right in. The class is H Stock. The rules allow almost no changes from how the car was delivered from the factory. It was during this time that the supply of "13 tires dried up. Other than the most pedestrian of tires that where on the market the SCCA allowed you go "plus one" on the rims. Now I had a chance to go to the then new on the market Falken 615's in a 195 70R 14, if I could find a rim. And as we all know the offset of our beloved E21 is an odd duck. Et18. Thank God, for BBS. They made a 14x6 that fits, yes for the 323, but they work. How I have ended up with 10 of these rims, with 8 center caps is another story.

    That and the 323 struts are a larger and built for a heaver engine that given you have to run the stock springs in H Stock might keep you from scraping the door handles, as badly. Just remember to also use the 323 spring hats as they are flat, as they are not required for the bumpers to be at some sort of mandated height from the ground. Just saying.

    As for yesterday, the car is again running. Now for the next chapter on life with the family E21.

    David
    Last edited by jr02518; 04-13-2019 at 08:49 PM.

  2. #2
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    Alright! Great start, getting my popcorn ready !

  3. #3
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    Attempting to diagnose why your battery is flat after driving your car for 30 minutes, after of many years of BMW ownership, might have you believe you know what you're getting your self into. I was almost correct. But I have been known to start buying parts that I'm sure I'll use at some point in a project like this. This forum gives us all a window into a path of taking advantage of someone else's parts the are for sale at less than retail. The car was not going anywhere anytime soon and why not get some additional things taken care of while things were in a not running state. That and the car will now be running in FSP with the SCCA.

    I had been keeping the battery in a charged state, got to love the new chargers, and when I got the call from Daryl (OldMan) that he had some time to work on my car he arrived at the what I call the "barn" to collect the car. His truck and trailer in place gave me an opportunity, why not dive onto the trailer? And in fact the car fired up and without much effort the car came to rest ready to strap into place. The lingering aroma of what smelled like varnish more than gas confirmed what I had believed from before the dead battery, I was venting fuel and fumes. One more thing to fix.

    But how do you get the old stuff out of the car and where do you dispose of the stuff? First you have to have a legal gas can.
    Last edited by jr02518; 04-13-2019 at 08:46 PM.

  4. #4
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    David it started to day too and moved. And the wagon started late this afternoon TOO!

    Always FUN TO DRIVE - Build Thread & Tech info - 79 320/6 track car build thread -- Videos of track car -Adam in car Auto-x video - Start-up video - 4/2011 Adam's TOP BMW time San Diego BMWCCA - 4-5-15 Dyno break-in run new M20B25 - Exhaust Thread - Link

  5. #5
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    Daryl, Congratulations on having the wagon up and running. How is the idle?

    Old gas, a little over 4 gallons of the stuff ended coming out of the car, via the combination of stock fuel line to the injector body, a jumper at the fuel pump relay and a section of fuel line pushed on to the banjo bolt. This was all of Daryl's doing and he will have to chime in with the details. My job was to depose of the stuff. First, I do not have a truck and there is no way the can of non air freshening fluid was going into my DD. I do have a utility trailer that we use to tow my son's go kart with and as it was pointed out it worked as the holder of the can. The County of San Bernardino has a collection station at the old air base and they will take up to 15 gallons of the stuff without question, per visit. Having a go kart on the trailer gives you the impression that the attendants would much rather talk to you about all things fun rather than just about any thing else. Their parting gift, a plastic oil drip pan for the kart. Think of that 15 quart item you have for your car but scaled down for the little engine. My tax dollars at work.

    Back to the sources of fuel smells from the E21. The car was built in 12 of 1981, I have been it's care taker for almost ten years, some of what hangs next to the passenger half shaft has been replaced but only when it was so obvious as to leave a puddle. This time it came out of the car. That, and the bottom of the rear seat. Then the cover over the fuel tank. Now we order parts. BMW of Riverside is a dealership, BMW parts that fit the first time are collected from warehouses throughout the vast bimmerverse and I pay for them. When you are going to be changing the throttle plate on the underside of in intake manifold, you are not going to think of using any thing other than the factory paper gasket, are you? Daryl got one for one of his projects, nuff said.

    Back to the pump in the tank. The bradded fuel lines are all showing the effect of age and the 10 percent'ish of alcohol in what we how use for gas. Both lines to the no longer installed filter/pump combination are also getting replaced. Did you know that the fuel level sender has it's own rubber "O" ring, as well as the transfer pump? That makes two. My pump did have the hose clamp on the lower pick up. At some point they stopped putting this on replacement pumps and as I understand it, they do make a difference. Daryl did have a neat R and R trick of tying some twine to the two larger hoses when they are pulled out of the car from the underside. Then tapping the new hoses together, retying the twine to the combination and pulling them back into the car.

    Next the throttle plate, as the idle screw is no longer adjustable.
    Last edited by jr02518; 04-15-2019 at 02:40 PM.

  6. #6
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    Using "real oem" for the exploded view of the parts that you might be using can help. Including the vin number of you car helps identify the month your car was produced. It does not exclude the parts that you do not need for your application. I give you the molded rubber hoses that connect the Byzantine combination of stuff that someone decided that these BMW's had to have to run. The number and more importantly there placement lends one to believe that it all made sense to a committee of ME's, during the construction of the car they could be installed in some sort of logical order and were not of consequence to anyone that might have to work on the car in the future. That the techs of the day might be smaller, the reality of the "super size me" had not taken hold and smoking was still was something people did at work to foster beating the "book" to make money working on these cars.

    Yea, I'm older. The ash trays I changed at the four star restaurant in Carmel, CA in the late 70's into the 80's were done at the demise of each cigarette. Everyone might have been thinner. The cars were lots of fun. Not growing past 5' 10" means that I still fit into these cars with a helmet. Updating our E21, that's next.

  7. #7
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    Now for the root cause of the dead battery. Yes it included an alternator on it's last leg, with enough shaft play that it was not long for the task of creating current but it was no longer grounded. Both the engine to body ground strap and well as the alternator to engine wire were a fail. I had purchased a spare, along with a combination of interior/dash parts that will be next on the list. Starting with the removal of what is left of the A/C system that sits inside the car.

    That reminds me of why I have the 'is Recaros that have made there way into the car. These seats were built in the above mentioned time frame of smaller people. Someone wanted a set of these in black, but not in leather. No, black leather in a Southern California car without A/C is only for the hard core. These were done in a black corduroy fabric, that as it turns out I prefer. I surmise that the reason for their not being in the car of the person who commissioned them has to do with the "wide body" nature of todays owners.

    These things are narrow. Not many people think about function over form. No one wanted cloth seats. I got them as a set with the seat rails, it was a score.

    The vendor also had a 29mm front sway bar, but for an early car that no one seamed to have any use for. When you are using the 323 struts you have to use the early sway bar that might be thin on the ground. Some times the stars do line up. Getting this combination into a later car without the early crossmember can be done, but you get to be creative. With flat washers on the the sway bar stacked before the lower control arm bushing.

    Just incase you might find your self in the same situation. And you do not get to use other than the stock rubber bushings in the control arms. It works great.
    Last edited by jr02518; 04-15-2019 at 10:46 PM.

  8. #8
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    Yesterday we completed the removal of the long dead interior a/c system. Everything under the bonnet had been removed prior to the car becoming ours and other than serving as way to continue to fill the holes drilled in the firewall it was just dead weight. On a plus side, Daryl did discover the wire run to the O2 sensor had been pinched and grounded under the coil clamp. Now the sixty four dollar question; what does the O2 sensor do in the system and how did the car get past the California Smog check? At no time were dead presidents involved with getting a certificate, just to be clear.

    On second thought I will not spend any time thinking about the "how" part of the above.

    Getting the console and fan system on it's way out started with removing the seats{four fasteners for each seat}, removing the glove box{three fasteners}. unbolting the ECU{two fasteners} and then I lost count. The system of plastic parts and the screws, both seen and hidden are a reflection of a time when labor was cheeper. This thing must have been a team building project, like a "Twix bar". Left side guy, right side guy and under the bonnet guy. The two part plate that holds the system wedged against the dash is both simple and must have cost next to nothing to produce. The interior condensation drain tubes that are bolted to the tunnel with huge for the task fasteners are nothing more than slip fit into the fan housing. I would be willing to bet that the musty smell that plagued these cars started with the moisture weeping from the dealer installed a/c system into the carpet inside the plastic shroud of console that hid it all.

    Then you have the wiring. That I will admit I will tackle at a later date. That when I replace the heater controls on the dash with again a purchase of parts from someones now departed project and allows me to add the non-a/c center console we all might covet. But first I have to work out the rebuilding of what "looks" like a good combination of parts but on closer inspection it's not really going to work. The compete and intact black plastic skin is hiding a broken and nonfictional mounting system for the brackets that I believe will take two people to assemble when it goes back into the car. Over then new carpet that will replace the nasty stuff that looks ok'ish except for the brake fluid stain from the master cylinder leak that means you get to change what you hope you never have/get to change again.

    But Daryl did remove the blade fuses from those systems that might allow the smoke to escape from the wiring loom in the event of a short. Because I do need to drive this thing and get it to the smog station because after three years, I am looking to drive it to work some Friday. And home again.

    David

  9. #9
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    Today was an automotive success. One never defeats the state, of California, you at best work through the bi-annual test that allows you to drive on the roads by paying a tax inflated price and for a blend of gas not used by any other state. And we are expected to embrace it all.

    Ok, the BMW 320i has passed the test, created to verify that it and the owner remain a good citizen in the eyes of the state. This time I can point to recent work that included removing the old gas and changing all the hoses that the fuel comes in contact with at the back end and fuel tanks of the car. I do believe the alcohol content does, over time have a detrimental effect on the hoses allowing the fuel pumps to start pulling air into the system. With the end result being a car that tries to compensate by running rich, then it no longer can pass the test to keep it consuming the gas that pays the taxes.

    But, it makes me sound clinical. I really did enjoy the drive up and down Highway 18 this morning. The test was again just a bi-annual inconvenience.
    I do like winning the test, too.
    Last edited by jr02518; 04-27-2019 at 12:10 AM.

  10. #10
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    SO GLAD - it passed the first time David!!!!!!!!

    Sure glad I do not have to smog the wagon!

    Always FUN TO DRIVE - Build Thread & Tech info - 79 320/6 track car build thread -- Videos of track car -Adam in car Auto-x video - Start-up video - 4/2011 Adam's TOP BMW time San Diego BMWCCA - 4-5-15 Dyno break-in run new M20B25 - Exhaust Thread - Link

  11. #11
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    And for the first time in almost two and a half years, the car was driven home, is parked and prepped. Tomorrow it's off to Fontana for a weekend of auto crossing. I can say the work to refresh the fuel delivery system has paid dividends. The car is pulling strong. I can confirm that when the air is getting combined with gas in the proper blend, via the CIS [or what ever they call that thing] and the fuel has not been infused with extra o2 from the compromised fuel lines, it does not ping.

    That, might have you second guessing the timing of the distributor and you might not get it that the car is running lean. But now, it is healed. The drive up Highway 18 from San Bernardino to 5650 feet is a great test. The temp gage stayed just under half way, and not one moment of hesitation on the way. So with a set of used Bridgestone RE-71 R's, 205's, mounted on a set of Kosie 15X7 rims. The tires came from an E Street Miata, that means the edges are gone. Ok, almost gone. But they were run on 6 inch wide rims, yea pinched. But on the 7's, I was able to set up the tires so that I ended up with two left's and two right's. The middle of the tread is over 40%. Until after this weekend.

    If you are any where in SoCal this weekend, stop by the AAA Speedway in Fontana and check it out. If this works out, I will be taking the car to the Lone Pine event the weekend of May 18/19. That will need fresh tires, I know better. Don't ask.
    Last edited by jr02518; 05-04-2019 at 01:15 AM.

  12. #12
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    Part #: 11-61-1-270-630-BOE

    It is only a hose. But for some reason it will look fine and then half way through a practice it will start to self destruct. But only in such a way that does not catch your eye. How this thing can split on the underside, who knows.

    But having all that time staring at the motor reveals the fan is on the way to self destruction. Half way on one of the blades is a chip, more like a bite, and there are stress cracks to the hub. But it's two weeks until the next event. Lots of time to find those last lingering issues.

    I hope.
    Last edited by jr02518; 05-06-2019 at 08:35 AM.

  13. #13
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    ? Really ?

    Is this the vac hose that you did not get / find?

    Wish I had another fan for you be think I used my extra one on the silver car.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Did not like 7,200 ?

    Always FUN TO DRIVE - Build Thread & Tech info - 79 320/6 track car build thread -- Videos of track car -Adam in car Auto-x video - Start-up video - 4/2011 Adam's TOP BMW time San Diego BMWCCA - 4-5-15 Dyno break-in run new M20B25 - Exhaust Thread - Link

  14. #14
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    This past weekend, was an automotive adventure. The 49th anniversary of the Lone Pine Time Trails, held at the retired Manzanar air strip, located accross the Highway 395 from the internment camp used during the Second World War. The location is a little over ten miles north of the town of Lone Pine in the Owens Valley, that might be one of the most scenic locations that one can participate in an event. Framed between the Eastern Sierras we had temps in the low 70's in the valley and we could see it snowing in the peaks.

    The track includes the runway and two taxi ways for a length of approximately 2.5 miles. The surface is concrete laid down in the late 30's and is showing it's age. Run clock wise one day and counter-clockwise the next, your tires are abused in equal measure. My times, in the 143 second range give you a sense of the speed the E21 worked up too. I drive this event to test the car and myself. Can I get it there and back? Will I keep my foot planted and relearn to trust what the car can do, when it's driven as close to limit I can get my self to explore. I found over 6 seconds on each day, over the 3 runs on Saturday and 4 on Sunday.

    So yes, not a lot of seat time and it's a work run event. But I never stop to compare an event like this to a local SCCA event. When you are shifting into 4th, you are focused on looking as far ahead as you can.

    www.lonepinetimetrials.com
    Last edited by jr02518; 05-23-2019 at 10:22 PM.

  15. #15
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    I would again like to say thank you to "Old Man". His efforts at getting our family E21 back up and running, has rekindled a number of car activities that I did not realize how much I had been missing. One might question the "are you sure" of taking the car on a three plus hour drive north on a highway into the desert, but how else are you going relearn to trust your gas gage.

    The event, described above, confirms I will be going again next year. My drive home, reenforced why I really like this car. First, driving this thing on Southern California days above 80'ish degrees on the major Highways surrounded by cell phone zombies is not what I call fun. But once you get your self settled on a good two lane road, then it starts to be fun. The drive home included a very windy stretch of the 395 that I know know why there are almost no trees to be seen but starting just past Red Mountain it started to rain.

    Ok, I get it. But the combination of desert rain, two lane desert road, diving at dusk and the white foamy road surface was fun. I have a good set of 205/50 15 full tread street tires on seven inch wide rims and the car was loaded with my set of race tires and gear for the weekend. I was planted, I had lots of gas and I know the passing lanes. The wiper blades did start off making that noise they all make, when they are forced to attempt to smear the water from the wind screen. But in my case they did, over time, quiet down and do the job.

    So, I can also report that the car has also done two weekends of autocross events. Practice on Saturday and competition on Sundays. Locally I am running with the SCCA using the Heritage Classic Street class, I know it's not old enough but they need the car count. We run at the AAA Speedway in Fontana, the next event is the weekend of July 6-7th. More info at www.solo2.com

    Bring out your car, get away from the cell phone zombies and melt your tires. It's fun!

    David
    Last edited by jr02518; 06-06-2019 at 10:01 PM.

  16. #16
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    Some time last fall, October?, I had the chance to take the E21 for a drive that did not end up as I had hoped. It started off well from collecting it in Redlands, CA and heading South on Highway 15 to La Jolla for the weekend. The drive south into the sunset of a fall afternoon not stuck in the traffic on the other side of the Highway was lots of fun. No issues on the way south, smooth sailing into the weekend.

    One thing about older BMW's when parked near the coast, I swear you can hear them rusting. But it ran great and never gave me an issue. The drive home is when things started to go sideways. From La Jolla our route north would take us to Fallbrook just off the 15. Think avocado's, when farm labor was cheaper and water was lots cheaper. Now the area is ranchets, pleasure horses that are pets and vineyards. We stopped at a long time family friend that had located to the area and had a great visit. I am so glad I did not park on their driveway. My clutch was dieing and hydraulic fluid was not staying where it was supposed to be in the system. I did not know it at the time I pulled away from their home, no that revelation was only a few miles down the road.

    On the way into Temecula the traffic was building in the normal areas and shifting the car ended in the same spot. But I might be lucky, ok very lucky. The couple we had purchased the car from years ago, lived in the area and they are both "race car" people. They are great couple with two kids and three race cars. With a big house that has a guest bed room and a yard that has space for the car trailers, truck and has it turns out our car. And they had no issue storing it for the time it required us to figure out how we were going to get it home. There is more, I had an event that I was an instructor at on the Sunday of the weekend things went south, but they gave me the keys to their 2003 ZHP 330 and told me to have fun. Bottom line, great people do drive race cars. When things go south they understand and step up.

    And yesterday day "OLD MAN" helped me start the process of getting the car back on the road. I am a very lucky!

    David
    Last edited by jr02518; 02-07-2020 at 10:27 AM.

  17. #17
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    Once again my first guess at what went wrong was on the correct tract but not the ultimate issue. The car has a new clutch slave cylinder and thank you to "OLD MAN" for the help getting it bleed. But the hose from the clutch master cylinder to the slave is the true issue. The hose is leaking just past the the metal union and rubber hose at the metal bracket on the firewall. Buying the hose is easy, OEM is gold plated and in this case I went for a much less costly alternative. But looking at the location of the hose at the top end around the bracket has me thinking about how many nicks and four letter words are on the horizon.

    I would also like to provide some feed back on installing and then driving on a set of fresh H&R rear springs. If your car still has the stock springs you will need a spring compressor to remove the top nut from the spring hat. If you have a set of ancient sport springs that require two different sure clip setting on you Bilstein sport shocks you might not need the spring compressor. The ability to have different cup settings allows you to compensate for the different spring tension and compensate for a weak spring. When you start looking for E21 parts on e-bay you will find sets of H&R springs at a number of pricing options. Then as you make unrealistic offers to buy you might finally end up with a set. Having a friend help putting them back in the car is really helpful. They will just fall out of the car on disassembly, unless your friend is with you at the beginning of this R&R. To catch them, as you undo that last nut on the top hat in side the trunk and are focused on not loosing one more washer to the trunk.

    I have now had the opportunity to drive the car with the new rear springs. I was reusing my Bilstein Sports and no other changes were made, at this time. I now have conformation that what was in the car is junk. If you are looking at a set of used springs save your self some grief and start fresh. I will admit that if you can still read the manufactures label on the factory paint they are still an option. But changing the front springs on our cars is a little more involved, when I have the H&R's on the car I will be very happy.

    And as much as I know having a Ground Control system in the car is the optimum set up, that from a cost stand point is not going to happen. And it's not legal in a "street" class.

  18. #18
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    So, before the rain, I had a chance to drive the E21. Not a long drive, but long enough to be reminded that the used up RE-71's do need to be replaced. What that looks like is another set of 75% worn out Bridgestone's, or maybe something new. My life in sales, got to love it.

    During the replacement of the hose the caused the clutch to bleed out, the transmission received a flush and refill of Redline MTL. This is one of the little thing that make these cars drive a little better and the gear box shift that much sharper. All said, I am looking forward to driving the car at an event, as soon as they again happen. If you are in the Southern half of California, keep an eye on www.solo2.com for event details.

    David
    Last edited by jr02518; 04-06-2020 at 09:39 PM.

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