Diving in at the shallow end!

[C10 LS1 1968]

Paul,

No joy on the pics. Sorry about that.

[motorV8ed]

Ah, quel dommage! But thanks for looking.

[bimerok]

I keep seeing you mentioning that you need to force the steering shaft on to splines because it is too long. Is it not collapsible shaft? If not, don’t you want to get one?

In case of an accident it’s always pain in the forehead to remove the BMW emblem that used to be on the steering wheel

[RulyLSX]

Yeah you don't have to remove the joints if it's the flaming river setup, what I did just recently for my turbo build is 1 - Mark the location of how it was setup, 2 - removed the allen holding the shaft, 3 - collapsed the shaft... it slides right out.


This is WAYYYYY easier than the stock setup lol

[motorV8ed]

Yeah, mine is not a collapsible shaft. It is a solid bar.

I guess I will wait and see what the clearance is to the header before deciding whether to replace it. Leo, loved the "forehead" comment!

[RulyLSX]

Yeah, mine is not a collapsible shaft. It is a solid bar.

I guess I will wait and see what the clearance is to the header before deciding whether to replace it. Leo, loved the "forehead" comment!

Wich joints are on it? is it the stock stuff? If the stock ones you can shove a flat head through them to "opeN" up a bit then insert shaft on the firewall end, on the driver side end you might want to loosen the steering rack.


What i did is remove the steering rack completely, inserted that end on there so i could get good leverage and a rubber mallet then put the rack on the car, still have to deal with the firewall side though.

it's a pain but one of those things you have to do.... take breaks, do again, curse alot etc lol

[motorV8ed]

Thanks for the tips. I got the cursing part and the taking-breaks part down pretty good!

My situation is unusual. One of our talented members (Jim Brink) already did this conversion. He used Flaming River stainless u-joints, with one splined side (and no pinch bolt), and one double-D side. The splined sides obviously go to the stock components. For the shaft, he used a round, solid bar, with a flat machined to form the D's. Both are held by setscrews with jam nuts. (Pics below. These are the "before" pictures, so don't pay attention to the little bit of rust visible on the splines.)

Because the shaft is round (with machined D's), I couldn't slide the u-joint up the shaft. I was able to get it off by sliding the splines as far as they would go, then "compressing" the steering-column side (which appears to be spring-loaded). That gave me enough room to slide the shaft out of the D-side of the u-joint. It didn't even cross my mind to lower the rack.

I was just doing a pre-test fit of the engine into the bay. I am not 100% sure yet, but think I will have to employ Leo's suggestion to drop the front cross member. Obviously, that would also take care of the steering shaft issue. I am going to change a couple of things and give it another try after lunch.

Some pics:

[motorV8ed]

Things went well today. I attempted a series of "pre-test fits" of the engine. Meaning, I was not willing to call them "test fits," but rather indicate I am at an earlier stage than that. But it went better than expected.


I did 3 "pre-test fits," and learned a lot from each. At first, I left everything on and bolted up, including leaving the shifter stub on and leaving the transmission cross-mount on. I was holding in reserve Leo's suggestion to drop the subframe. I learned how to ease the engine in with the tranny hanging lower, then move my engine leveler and drop the hoist to get everything nearly in position. I managed to get the shifter into the hole in the tunnel, but couldn't get the oil pan past the crossmember.


DSCN3050.jpg


For the second attempt, I changed the length of some of my chains (to help side-to-side leveling), removed the tranny mount, and removed the shifter. I also stopped worrying about the engine leveler so much, and just used a jack on the tranny (as @Lantz suggested upthread). I got what felt like really close to getting the oil pan past the crossmember. It was "only" about 2" off:


DSCN3068.jpg

The biggest problem appeared to be the chain and accouterments at the rear of the engine running into the black cowling at the rear of the engine bay that is associated with ventilation and the windshield wipers.


For my final attempt of the day, I removed the wipers and that cowling. Once I figured out there was some interference between my engine hoist and the heater valve (and how to avoid it), I had enough room! I eased the oil pan past the crossmember, then set the motor mount down into their resting pads. I was able to get bolts into all the joints between the motor mount and the frame bracket. (Just had them finger tight.)



DSCN3075.jpg DSCN3080.jpg DSCN3090.jpg

Even though it was only a "pre-test fit," it was pretty nice to see the engine in place! And I still have the option later of dropping the subframe, if that looks expedient, but it looks like I do not have to do so.

I now need to figure out everything I want to do with the engine out, so that maybe my next fit will not have to be a "test fit." (Unlikely, but a boy can dream, right?)

[Tim Mc]

You may consider replacing the steering shaft with a collapse-able model for ease of installation (and safety). Unsure why a solid shaft was used. Here is what we used...similar, but with the sliding shaft connection - was a breeze to install.



We also used a plate that was bolted to the intake manifold mounting (no intake) that made installing the engine a snap - single man ops. Might throw a rag over the crossmember...allow the oil pan to slide over and down for the closest tolerance. We had no issues doing the physical engine install. Adding all the anncillaries become the jigsaw puzzle...requiring us to raised the now installed engine as far up as it can go (sometimes with one mount still connected to pivot the engine to the left or right). We are also running larger tube headers (1 7/8). It certainly was all doable.

[motorV8ed]

There is no such thing as "a small job."

Due to other obligations, I had limited wrenching time this weekend. I lined up a few (of what I thought would be) small jobs.

One was to replace the spark plugs. Evidently, the PO had some difficulties in this regard.

To be fair, it is my understanding that accessing the rear spark plugs on a F-body is tough (also on many other cars, for that matter). However, the plug on cylinder #7 was (I gather) never torqued down. It was less than finger tight. Moreover, there was oil all over the threads, and oil was weeping down the head from the spark plug well. I suppose the poor bastard was not able to (or just forgot) to get the wrench way up there to torque the #7 plug.

However, it gets worse. The #5 plug was cross-threaded. It only had a few threads screwed in, and it was at an obvious cant to the other plugs. I tried a little bit to "chase" the threads using a spark plug held at the correct angle, but decided to get bigger ammunition.

I ordered a Powerbilt "back tap" from Amazon: (https://www.amazon.com/Powerbuilt-64...gateway&sr=8-3 ). The idea here is that the tap is collapsible, and you put it into the spark plug hole, then expand it and chase the threads outward. Hopefully this will keep me from having to pull the head or use a Helicoil insert.

Wish me luck!

The plug on the left is "normal," the one in the middle is the one that was cross-threaded, and the one on the right was the one that was finger-tight, blowing oil. Can't help but wonder how well this car ran before!

Thanks, all for the steering shaft info. Will take into consideration when I know more!

[C10 LS1 1968]

Paul,

Jim here,

As you know I'm a LS guy but I'd spend the time and money to pull that engine apart. If you get everything installed and the lifters or bearings rattle you will hate the whole project. At least some type of compression test. Again being the paranoid guy I would have the trans reviewed by your choice of transmission shops.

I know its a bummer to spend the extra cost but it could be well worth it.

In regards to the steering shaft the flaming river shaft will give you 2-3 inches of collapse at best? Note the angle of the shaft if the car is hit in the front it will collapse towards the engine. Not saying the flaming river isn't good.

[Lantz]

Paul,

Jim here,

As you know I'm a LS guy but I'd spend the time and money to pull that engine apart. If you get everything installed and the lifters or bearings rattle you will hate the whole project. At least some type of compression test. Again being the paranoid guy I would have the trans reviewed by your choice of transmission shops.

I know its a bummer to spend the extra cost but it could be well worth it.

My opinion would be to slap that engine in and fire it up. You don’t need to hook up coolant, power steering or even the alternator. Long as no “red lights” then keep going. Especially if your junk yard will warranty a bad one.

I didn’t mention it in my thread but I had mine installed (not fully) and I removed the valley pan when doing an ls6 valley pan swap to find a whole bunch of sludge. Sucked but I just returned the whole engine and ended up with a better one in the end.

Your situation will dictate what’s best for your scenario.

Sorry to hear about your plugs. Never fun when you run into snags like that.


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[bimerok]

I agree with what Lantz is saying. Unless the car must be done and 100% in service by a date, I wouldn’t spend money on the expensive transmissions/engine checks. Just do basic maintenace, a simple compression check and test fire the motor before buttoning everything up.

In regards to the steering shaft the flaming river shaft will give you 2-3 inches of collapse at best? Note the angle of the shaft if the car is hit in the front it will collapse towards the engine. Not saying the flaming river isn't good.

Unfortunately you can’t predict that the car will always be hit in the front and even if so you can’t be 100% certain where collapse will go. Those 2-3 inches can be difference between broken neck or not. If those 2-3 inches did not play in safety margines then BMW would’t engineer a collapse in their original steering shaft. These things play significant role in safety and one can sure have the option to save $80 to omitt it.

[RulyLSX]

Agreed, I would just put it in the car and SEND IT. Not sure what block exactly you are using but lifters are usually a good upgrade if you wanted to do something.

[Tim Mc]

Engine: Or you can hire an energetic 12-year old assistant to rebuild it... :-)

[motorV8ed]

I take Jim's concern seriously, but I am going to put it in now and hope for the best. I am of the mindset that if it is in need of repair, so be it! I will not hate the project. We are fully prepared to say “Ooops, we need to have the engine rebuilt.” And I don’t think that I will hate taking it out the second time, and re-doing what needs to be done. In fact, I am kind of assuming that I will have to do that some day during the life of the car. But I would prefer to just get the car on the road now, evaluate what it needs, and leave the engine (with upgrades?) to a future winter.

Hopefully, that will still be the case after I try out this new back-tap on the cross-threaded plug hole! It just came in the mail. Time to go chase some threads.

DSCN3102.jpg



EDITED TO ADD: That was easy. Took all of about 20 minutes. Now we have 8 spark plugs, torqued to final values!

[Lantz]

EDITED TO ADD: That was easy. Took all of about 20 minutes. Now we have 8 spark plugs, torqued to final values!

That’s awesome


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[motorV8ed]

I have been immersed in planning my wiring for an embarrassingly long time. Thank goodness for the efforts of those who have gone before and documented their work. It would be a hard task without those.


I have been reading and trying to synthesize and integrate information from many sources, including:
-the ETM
-Bentley
-LT1swap
-Chilton manual for Camaros
-Jeff Bryant’s “LS Swaps” book from SA
-the LSx E36 wiring thread (https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...6#post24774946)
-Build threads from Tongboy, Pzary, Bimmerok, Tipsy McStagger, to name only a few.


It’s almost too much!!


After chewing on this for a few days, I came to the following conclusion. I would like this to look neat and workmanlike, but I do not require that this look stock. For a while, I was really into Tipsy’s idea of taking the external fuse box from an E46, but then I realized I would prefer to do something easier (but less stock-looking). Thus, I am allowing myself to use in-line fuses. I am trying to use BMW locations and components where possible, but I am allowing myself to use “universal” relays.


I should also note where I am starting from. My car was already converted, and thus some choices were already made for me. ABS was deleted from my car; therefore, I am going to re-purpose the two ABS relay spots, (#11 and 12) for fan HI and LO relays for a two-speed puller fan. (I ordered OEM BMW relay holders and contacts from the dealer to repopulate those spots.) The 3 BMW relays that hung on the outside of the box are all deleted; thus, I am going to mount 4 “universal” gangable fused relays in that location. (In the chart below, these are referred to as “New Relay A, B, C, and D.)


But the big realization for me was that I desired that the engine harness be, well, an engine harness. That is, I would like to be able to pull the engine out without having to undo lots of fiddly wires. Therefore, I decided to use a few connectors between the engine side and the body side, in the spirit of the LS or BMW harnesses, but suited to the needs of this project. Basically, these will replace the C100, C101, C105, C220, and C230 connectors, making the right connections to the BMW side. I bought some cheap waterproof connectors for the signal connections, and am using some heavier-duty Molex connectors (non-waterproof) that I had for the connections that carry any significant current.


So, here is the cross-connection chart I came up with (which is, of course, mostly a regurgitation of the information compiled by the aforementioned pioneers). If you spot any errors/corrections, I would be happy to hear them.

EDITED TO ADD: Wiring for the starter is not included in the chart, because it will not be part of the harness connector. It is all on the BMW side, and Jim already took care of it!

Harness pinouts.jpg

[TipsyMcStagger]

... ABS was deleted from my car; therefore, I am going to re-purpose the two ABS relay spots, (#11 and 12) for fan HI and LO relays for a two-speed puller fan. (I ordered OEM BMW relay holders and contacts from the dealer to repopulate those spots.) The 3 BMW relays that hung on the outside of the box are all deleted; thus, I am going to mount 4 “universal” gangable fused relays in that location. (In the chart below, these are referred to as “New Relay A, B, C, and D.)...

I know there are differences in the model years but are you relays #13 & #15 not already designated "High speed radiator fan relay" and "Low speed radiator fan" relay, respectively?

[motorV8ed]

I know there are differences in the model years but are you relays #13 & #15 not already designated "High speed radiator fan relay" and "Low speed radiator fan" relay, respectively?

Ahh, I should have addressed that. I am planning to leave those two relays operating the stock BMW pusher fan. These will be controlled by the radiator thermo switch, i.e., they do not need intervention by the (non-existent) DME or the GM PCM. I am planning to add a puller fan, which will be controlled by the PCM. Haven't decided yet if I will use a SPAL or the like, or use the Taurus fan I picked up for $40 from a junkyard.

I must say that I am glad that you are working on wiring now, too. (I am sure you wish they were in the rearview mirror by now!) But your efforts have allowed me to see the process in real time, and have given me ideas and good info.

With rare forethought, I ordered a cheap set of depinning tools from eBay about a month ago. As of last week, it still hadn't arrived, so I ordered another from Amazon prime. It arrived on Sunday (yesterday), and I put it to immediate use.

[TipsyMcStagger]

I see. I intend to simply use the a single Volvo two-speed fan in the location of the stock E36 electric fan. It will be GM PCM controlled but I will wire it through the BMW relays (and possibly through a two-speed Volvo relay as well, which I think will be necessary to control the speeds).

Unfortunately, I have to put the BMW on hold once again as I'm about to head out to the garage and tear my KTM apart to get it ready for my upcoming cross country ride.

[motorV8ed]

Don't you just love​ this part of the project?


DSCN3114.jpg DSCN3115.jpg

[Lantz]

It is as long as it ends up working


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[Tim Mc]

We used a new (Rock Auto!) Volvo fan in place of the OEM BMW pusher. We wired it up on low speed/voltage (using Holley EFI aftermarket) and it cooled just fine for our 400 HP 5.3. Admittedly, we do not have AC or tested in anger (road course), it was entirely sufficient on the street. The Volvo fan is pretty impressive for a completely bolt in part.

https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...7#post29819417

[motorV8ed]

Mind (and cooling air) blown!

I always assumed that there was an inherent difference between pusher and puller fans, like, the direction they turned or the cant of the blades. But you just got it through my thick skull that it is just how the fan is mounted to the damn shroud!

Once one sees that, it make perfect sense: a lot easier for fan manufacturers to make 'em all the same!

I am going to go play with this idea

Thank you, Tim.