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Thread: E36 M3, from dual purpose to track only

  1. #326
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    Got my complete brake system hooked up, bled, and leak free (non-working ABS system, for now). Just a temporary solution on the reservoirs, but it'll be good enough for a test drive hopefully tomorrow.
    Brake pedal feels very different. Also feels like it has about the same pedal travel as before, which either means I'll have to go up in M/C size(s), and/or there was a lot of slop in the original pedal (there is certainly some designed into the booster, the first 1/2" or so of travel of the OEM pedal moves the vacuum valve in the booster and doesn't press the M/C).

    Considering mounting some of the reservoirs in the cabin area (maybe the 2 for the ABS pump, and 1 for clutch).

    res.jpg
    Last edited by aeronaut; 12-19-2020 at 05:55 PM.

  2. #327
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    Booster delete update. Got the car out of the shop and drove around the parking lot. Cold tires, cold brakes, and water puddles around, but, the tires would lock up (ABS off) with less pedal pressure than I expected. So, initial test pass! Certainly, to get that initial braking action takes a concerted push on the pedal, but far from what I'd call a hard push. It'll all change on track, but off to a good start.

    Now, all the little things, pedal travel sensor, proportioning valve, maybe a balance bar adj knob in the cabin, and fluid reservoirs all need a mounting solution, and wire up the brake light pressure switch.

  3. #328
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    Pedal travel sensor might be easier than I thought. Mock up. Needs some work, but this approach might just do it.

    IMG_20201222_123257.jpg

  4. #329
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    '95m3(Avus)/996tt/4.8is
    Zip ties fix all!

  5. #330
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    Plodding along....this was supposed to be a quick "test" to see if I liked no-booster. But, is turning into a time and $$$ project. Oh well, the good news is that if it's horrible, I've not changed anything to prevent the OEM system to be reinstalled, and fairly quickly.

    Kept going around in circles on how to use the reservoirs that came with the master cylinders. Between wanting them to be above the M/C, and wanting to keep the front and rear, including the ABS, separate, the easy button was to buy a Tilton reservoir.

    Riv-nuts installed.
    IMG_20201230_152030.jpg


    Didn't have long enough bolts, so TIG to the rescue. I'll buy proper bolts in my next McMaster order.

    IMG_20201230_155544.jpg

    Bolted in. Sometime in the near future, plumbing.
    IMG_20201230_170812.jpg

  6. #331
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    Not much going on. Waiting for my MCS stuff to arrive!!
    But, finishing up some brake stuff.
    Replaced the 3 piece rear lines with 1 piece.
    18" rear lines might be a bit short if not for the MCS rears having less droop than what I currently have.
    Bl2.jpg

    BL1.jpg

    And of course, cleaning the calipers with brake clean, then letting them sit for 2 weeks caused some surface rust. Nothing on the cylinder wall, so all is good.

    piston.jpg

    Can't wait to get the MCS stuff in and mounted! First 2021 event is only 6 weeks off.

  7. #332
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    Decided to try brass bushings in the rear calipers. Nope. I now understand better. Sure, they feel fine without pads installed.
    But the pads push "up" on the carrier, and cause severe binding between the carrier pin and the brash bushing. No way.

    With rubber bushings, the pad ends are a snug fit, but with brass bushings, the pad ends fit only with a lot of pressure.
    So then, they spread the carrier and the caliper apart, binding the carrier in the bushing. The carrier would not slide in the bushing once pads were installed.
    Maybe some pads work, and some don't, but I'm not going to fight that.

    2.jpg

    Pad end pushes up on the carrier (left) and binds the pin the bushing (right).
    1.jpg

    - - - Updated - - -

    I did finish up this monstrosity. I hope I like booster-less.
    And, MCS arriving Monday!

    IMG_20210120_134841.jpg

  8. #333
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    '99 M3 '10 X5 35d '02 M3
    Interesting observation on the brass pins in the rear. I’ve had them in my car since day one and I’ve never noticed an issue. Will go back and look at the pad plates on some used spares I have.

    What brand pad are you using?

  9. #334
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    I'd expect some pads probably work fine. Those were Raybestos ST47s. I have some PFC and Ferodo laying around, I should have tried those just as an experiment, but was in rush to get things together.

  10. #335
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    New MCS dampers arrived! Don't know why, but I waited until yesterday to order GC race camber plates (currently have GC sport/street plates, which are thicker than the GC race).

    New front MCS vs my old front TCK SA.

    333.jpg

    Looking at dimensions, a 6" spring may have slack at full droop (these MCS have more droop than the TCKs).
    And I realized an interesting thing. At the same rate (in this case 750lb/in), a 5.5" spring has more travel than a 6" spring (per Eibach web page). Thinking about it, it makes sense, shorter wire needs thinner wire to have the same spring rate, so the bind height of the 5.5" will be less than the 6". Not QUITE enough to make up for the 1/2" difference, but the math shows that going from a 6" spring to a 5.5" spring only reduces total travel by about 0.2". Travel of a 742lb/in 5.5" spring is 3.31", travel of a 750lb/in 6" spring is 3.02".

  11. #336
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    What's the concern with having slack at full droop? You planning Dukes of Hazard style? Just curious as I am sure mine are definitely slacked at droop but dont see a likely way that would ever happen while driving.

  12. #337
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    You dissin Daisy?

    I know that some don't worry about slack at full droop. I'm airborne (both front, and/or all 4) at a few places on my home tracks. Maybe, probably, not long enough for front springs to come off perches? But there's the problem, maybe. Probably. Everyone said not to worry about rear springs coming off perches on track. Sway bar something something limits travel. And I started hearing a CLUNK in the rear, and on inspection, it was the rear spring catching the top of the conical perch, hanging up for a second, then snapping in place.

    I do find it interesting that the 5.5" 60mm spring has more travel than the 6" 2.25" spring.

    Go Daisy!

  13. #338
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    Well I guess I dont need to worry then since I dont drive as hard! Hope I run into you for a ride along one day!

    Just slap some 0 rate tender springs on the front then and call it a night?

    Watching with interest for when I make the move to some more serious hardware one day.
    Last edited by olemiss540; 01-26-2021 at 10:52 AM.

  14. #339
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    Quote Originally Posted by olemiss540 View Post
    Well I guess I dont need to worry then since I dont drive as hard! Hope I run into you for a ride along one day!

    Just slap some 0 rate tender springs on the front then and call it a night?

    Watching with interest for when I make the move to some more serious hardware one day.
    Always up for giving a ride along, and also riding along! Still learning!
    And, you know I'll be making suspension posts for the foreseeable future.

    Helpers on the 6" springs are an option. With coupler, they add about 3/4" to the fully compressed height of the spring. Just depends how much spring/tire clearance I have.
    I'll know more when I get my GC race plates tomorrow, and mock everything up.

  15. #340
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    You guys thing this is too close?

    ~5 ride height, and assuming ~3/4" for helper springs and connector, puts 6" spring right here:
    IMG_20210127_133900.jpg

    Edit: Above pic is assuming no helper springs. With helper springs, it would look like:

    whelper.jpg
    Last edited by aeronaut; 01-27-2021 at 06:25 PM. Reason: Added correct picture

  16. #341
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    How much space would you say it is? Looks better than mine, think I’d have ~5mm

  17. #342
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    Less than 5. I need to measure, but, I'd go with 3mm.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Actually, this is the right picture. The one above is assuming no helper spring, which I do plan to add.

    whelper.jpg

  18. #343
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    Test fitting all the MCS stuff while I wait for some fasteners and replacement bushings from McMaster and TCKline.
    I've figured out where I'm mounting the canisters, and it's all pretty simple. Routing the hoses shouldn't be too difficult either. Minimizing hose flex and making sure nothing gets pinched at full compression and wheel angle.

    My previous worries about the rear spring not being captured by the top spring perch, disappear. Droop on the rear MCS dampers are 2" less than on the TCKline. Wow.
    Even going from a 6" spring to a 5.5", there's plenty of capture. A 5" might even get captured. This is with adjuster fully lowered.
    IMG_20210129_122956.jpg

    Perdy:
    IMG_20210128_152303.jpg

    Rough measurement of camber (should get at least -4 deg up front), ride heights (probably no lower than 5.5"r and 5"f), tire clearances, and wheel travel, all look good so far!

  19. #344
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    Holy crap. What tires are you planning to run? What spring rates again??

  20. #345
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    Nothing crazy, I don't think anyway.
    750f/900r. Toyo RR, 255s, with my eye on 275s once i decide to buy new rims (mine are due for a refresh) which of course would need fender flares. Which adds up to a chunk of money.

    Is there something in my specs or approach that doesn't jive with the above?

  21. #346
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    Nope. That's awesome. Had no idea so was curious but that plan sounds perfect.

    Sell the wheels u have, get some 17x9.5 or 17x10s for 275 NT01 or 275 RC1 and slap some generic Chinese ebay flares on for max street cred. Upgrade to the hard flares once you have the extra coin handy. Nothing more fun than a flared e36 IMO and I am on my second one!

  22. #347
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    I like that plan!! I've been looking at ARC8s in 9 and 9.5 widths. The 9 comes in an ET that's helpful to my setup and can fit 275s "OK" I think. The 9.5 best offset forces me to run a 20mm spacer, and even that's marginal. Oh the challenges.

  23. #348
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    Olemiss, what rim size & offset and spacer you running?

  24. #349
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    Quote Originally Posted by aeronaut View Post
    Nothing crazy, I don't think anyway.
    750f/900r. Toyo RR, 255s, with my eye on 275s once i decide to buy new rims (mine are due for a refresh) which of course would need fender flares. Which adds up to a chunk of money.

    Is there something in my specs or approach that doesn't jive with the above?
    I'm running 275's on my rears with 10¹/⁴ wide custom style 5's with et20 offset and they barely fit under the wide body. It would be interesting to see what wheel offsets work for a closer to stock quarter panel. I'd imagine the inboard portion of the wheel would need to sit about 2" further in from stock and potentially have clearance issues on the rear shock?

    Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

  25. #350
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ctwide3project View Post
    I'm running 275's on my rears with 10¹/⁴ wide custom style 5's with et20 offset and they barely fit under the wide body. It would be interesting to see what wheel offsets work for a closer to stock quarter panel. I'd imagine the inboard portion of the wheel would need to sit about 2" further in from stock and potentially have clearance issues on the rear shock?

    Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk
    Yea, IIRC there's not 2" clearance in the inner rear between rim and shock. Also, moving the rear in that much makes the rear track quite a bit less than the front track. There's just not a lot of options on these cars to have a square setup without spacers up front, and for tires over 255, flares.

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